Talk:Abdullah Quilliam

Opening heading
Use this if you have the gumption,

Source: Jewish Historical Society of England, Newsletter no. 16, July 2007. Article by Arnold Lewis, Liverpool Jewish Community Archivist. Title 'Liverpool's Muslim Zionist'.

He spoke at many Zionist meetings including;

Liverpool Zionist Central Council, Sept 1902, at Hope Hall, Liverpool 'Enthusiastically seconded' formal resolution for a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

Wrote to 'Jewish Chronicle' saying that he favoured Jewish suzerianty in Palestine under the Sultan.

Also that year he spoke at, Jewish Working Mens Club, Sheffield Zionist League, London Dorshoi Zion Association, Cardiff, DZ, Glasgow.

Also, Manchester Zionist Association, Dec 1906, WQ an honoured guest - quotes - 'Jews must perservere, be courageous, be brave and pray for help till the great objects of Jewish colonisation are achieved', 'Jews are in the Sultans favour, who wishes to see them rehabilitated'.

Manchester Zionist Council, 1907, spoke alongside Chaim Weizmann. 1908, he left for Turkey. 'A passionate advocate of Zionism'.

End.

Unbiased opionion!

Certain parts of this article seem far from being unbiased. Expressions like His beautiful mosque on Brougham Terrace or His legacy lives on amidst the hearts of the new generation of Western Muslims or Quilliam had the courage and the audacity to openly criticise the imperialist policies of the Government and denounced the colonisation and suppression of foreign territories definitely do not adhere to the general code of neutral opinion, which shall be a foundation of Wikipedia. I can't argue with your facts, thus I don't wan to edit your article now. However I can understand the difference between writing a generally positive obituary and a encyclopedian article intented to stay for years and being available to general public as a source of neutral-opinion facts. Your article is definitely more of the obituary kind. Review it, please. Oneliner Referred to original, Xaxerian's version. This one's fine. Thanks. Oneliner 21:07, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

conversion
I merged from the W. H. Quillam article, but that leaves us with two different dates and places from Quilliam's conversion. We need to run this down and provide a citation (or competing citations if it really is a disputed fact.)Lisamh 01:51, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Date of Birth
The MCB article says that he was born ni 1851 but both the independent article and the Quilliam society give it as 1856, in fact, the society give the day and month. Robert C Prenic 09:24, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

1856 is confirmed by the Censuses and this contemporary (1893) profileNed de Rotelande 13:56, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

"Descendant" of childless John Quilliam
Take a look at the entry on John Quilliam: - ''It is claimed that William Abdullah Quilliam, the founder of England's first mosque was a descendant of Captain Quilliam. However, Mrs M A Watterson (nee Annie Quirk) in her book People and Places published in 1956 - noted that "John Quilliam's family farmed at Arbory" and that; "Captain Quilliam had no children, but they reared a niece."'' Ned de Rotelande 09:51, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Also see here "The descent from Lt John Quilliam of Victory fame is almost certainly untrue - John Quilliam had no known children. W H Quilliam is son of Liverpool-born Robert Henry Quilliam and Harriet Burrows, R.H. Quilliam is mostly likely son of Liverpool-born Samuel Quilliam who is probably the son of Robert Quilliam and Ann Winn (birth 14 Dec & ch 27 Dec 1809 St Nicholas, Liverpool) - it is just possible that this Robert is the youngest brother of John Quilliam." Ned de Rotelande 13:59, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

John Quilliam
I removed the reference. Please believe I would be delighted to see evidence, however it appears that John Quilliam RN died childless. Mcewan (talk) 22:10, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

First UK Mosque?
What about Shah Jahan Mosque in Woking, Surrey - also 1889. Vernon White '''. . . Talk''' 19:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia pages for these two early mosques give an opening of Christmas 1889 for this and "October or November" for the Shah Jahan mosque in Woking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Jahan_Mosque, clearly these are inconsistent! Cricketjeff (talk) 18:47, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:59, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

William Abdullah Quilliam → Abdullah Quilliam — Abdullah Quilliam was born William Henry Quilliam, and was never known as "William Abdullah Quilliam". He is best known under the name he adopted after converting to Islam.--The Celestial City (talk) 17:49, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

How Western Muslims see Quilliam
Removed from "Legacy" section:

Western Muslims, particularly converts to Islam, see Quilliam as a pioneer of the path they have taken.

Two problems:
 * No source.
 * It seems unlikely that every Western Muslim holds the same view on this.

A more carefully qualified and sourced statement could be added back. --Chriswaterguy talk 04:44, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Question and Complaints
In the article on Shaykh al-Islam, the claim is made that the subject of this article bore that title -- an important one in Islam. Nothing about this appears here, save an indication that Quilliam simply arrogated the title to himself rather than having had it conferred upon him. Which is true? When did it happen? And, why?

Additionally, the present article claims that Quilliam, born in 1856, "converted to Islam . . . at the age of 17. . . . He had earlier learned about Islam . . . in 1882". The claims are inconsistent, but I do not know which is erroneous.

Finally, the initial entry on this page shows Quilliam's endorsement of aspects of Judaism. Especially in the present day, with Moslems warring against Jews, this is notable. Why is this not incorporated into the article? Are the supposed facts cited in the entry unverifiable? Is there embarrassment that Quilliam's support for Judaism, as his own conversion to Islam, traces more to Victorian fascination by the exotic than to a deeper persuasion? It would be good to know.

External links modified
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