Talk:Abdurrahman Wahid/Archive 2

Overtures
I added several references to the flap about Ambassador Awad that nearly resulted in his being declared persona non grata. However, I could not find any reference to Wahid having studied in Israel during his youth. Can someone add that, either to Early Life or to Overseas Education? Martindo (talk) 02:06, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Gus Dur nickname
I thought the article used to explain where his nickname "Gus Dur" came from, but at any rate, it doesn't explain it now, and it should. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 00:57, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Education
The recent edit of his inability to get his Arabic fluency recognized in Egypt seems to have condensed too much of the earlier text. We are now left with an "out of the blue" comment about inability to get fluency certified, which sidesteps the whole issue of being obviously (?) fluent and yet not certified. The original text says something about bureaucracy and is useful info (assuming it's true).

Also, I read somewhere that Gus Dur studied in Israel for a time, which was a factor in his refusal to take a hard-line against that country. Can someone find a source for this info? Martindo (talk) 01:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Article page protected for 3 days, per request
Per the request at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents and following review of the editing history I have protected the article for 3 days. If a consensus arises that semi-protection should be substituted, or protection fully lifted, please contact an administrator. If protection remains, contact an admin to enact any consensually agreed edits, as discussed on this page. LessHeard vanU (talk) 13:08, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This may be a stupid question, but why was it fully-protected when it was only being vandalised by IP users? Would semi-protect be okay? Anyway, a source hasn't yet been added for his death, and one really needs to be added. It takes about five seconds to find it on Google, but I'm not an admin and can't edit the page... Lord Spongefrog,  (I am Czar of all Russias!)  13:17, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a source there - Indonesian language "Kompas". When I added it, it was the only reputable newspaper with the story. Now it's in a number of English language sources too. I also don't understand the need for full protect. --Merbabu (talk) 13:21, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Is there? Sorry, I never saw that. I'm not fluent in Indonesian (P.S. - There's a dab link to G77 I need to fix!), Lord Spongefrog,  (I am Czar of all Russias!)  13:23, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The (English language) Sydney Morning Herald is now reporting it - I'd add it but..... --Merbabu (talk) 13:24, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see it now. Shouldn't it be in the death section? I heard (from User:Drilnoth) that stuff referenced in the main article doesn't need to be referenced in the lead section. I'm being to picky with details, aren't I? Meh, Lord Spongefrog,  (I am Czar of all Russias!)  13:27, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, possibly a tad on the picky side - i could have done that but was fumbling through versions, trying to find a source, ward off boogaloo jokers and stumbling around trying to find a place to get an admin - then it got locked. Next time I will use my second set of hands. ;-) --Merbabu (talk) 13:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Edit request
Can an admin please add Category:2009 deaths to the category structure.

And can the following also be added to the death section...

Wahid died on Wednesday, 30 December 2009 at Cipto Mangunkusumo Hospital in Central Jakarta. According to Maman Imanulhaq from the National Awakening Party, Wahid died after undergoing dental surgery at the hospital.

Thanks, --Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 13:52, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Why not just semi-protect the article? --Merbabu (talk) 13:54, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm...probably the best idea...is this consensus? Lord Spongefrog,  (I am Czar of all Russias!)  13:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I was going to start a section on consensus, but you guys beat me to it. I believe that we do have some form of consensus that semi-protection would be better? --Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 14:01, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Semi protection it is. LessHeard vanU (talk) 14:22, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Source dump
May be useful for later. Arsonal (talk) 17:06, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Jakarta Globe

 * Gus Dur: A Tolerant Leader Respected in Indonesia and Abroad
 * Editorial: Indonesia Says Goodbye To a True Statesman
 * The Wit and Wisdom of Gus Dur
 * Remembering the Dragon Spirit of a Wise and Noble Indonesian Leader
 * Gus Dur 'Should Be Named a Hero'
 * PKB to Settle Differences In Honor of Founding Father
 * Hospital Details Gus Dur’s Final Days

The Jakarta Post

 * Editorial: Go with God, Gus

Kompas

 * Gus Dur Berpesan agar PKB Bersatu Lagi

Suara Pembaruan
31 December 2009 story index

The Australian

 * Jakarta mourns loss of Gus Dur - includes mention of resignation at the time of (unproven) corruption allegations, which I dont' think are mentioned in this article. --Merbabu (talk) 02:15, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The outpouring of affection for Gus Dur is not surprising
 * Indonesia farewells its boldest president Abdurrahman Wahid

The New York Times

 * Abdurrahman Wahid, 69, Is Dead; Led Indonesia for 2 Years of Tumult - death during surgery, links to older NYT articles on his removal. Arsonal (talk) 10:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

BBC

 * Obituary: Abdurrahman Wahid
 * Ex-Indonesia leader Abdurrahman Wahid mourned
 * Papers remember Indonesian democrat

Voice of America

 * Former Indonesian President Remembered as Advocate for Tolerance, Democracy

The Washington Post

 * Indonesians bury popular former President Wahid

BERNAMA

 * Gus Dur Father Of Pluralism

Christian Science Monitor

 * Abdurrahman Wahid: Former Indonesia president was a key democratic voice

Xinhua

 * China mourns death of Indonesian former president Wahid - repeals of legislation restricting Chinese Indonesians. Arsonal (talk) 08:49, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

The Sydney Morning Herald

 * Bridge-builder deepened Indonesia's fragile democracy
 * Indonesia's week of mourning for Gus Dur

Other

 * 5 September 2000 Round Table: Dialogue among Civilizations
 * 8 September 2000 address at the UN General Assembly
 * Wahid Addresses Parliament, Denies Corruption - 2001 article with the charges against him Arsonal (talk) 21:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Extremism Isn't Islamic Law - 2006 article in The Washington Post Arsonal (talk) 21:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality
I notice that this article sways a bit in favour of Wahid, without addressing the real reasons he was removed from office, for instance. This should be addressed. This article makes him out to be a victim of insurrection, and while that's partly true, there was a reason he was removed. -- rm 'w a vu  23:12, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can provide information from WP:RS's and present them in the article in a WP:NPOV way, then it would be a great assistance. cheers --Merbabu (talk) 23:36, 30 December 2009 (UTC)