Talk:Abe Masahiro

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:14, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Sloppy Article
This article is poorly written and downright sloppy. Just one example was the expression "Perry's letter." It wasn't Perry's letter. It was Fillmore's letter, and the content of the letter was polite and friendly, in direct contrast to Perry's threatening attitude. No wonder it caused confusion in the Shogunate. I corrected the above problem, but I hope someone with more time than I have at the moment will clean this up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.139.74.39 (talk) 03:56, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Alleged Authorization of Gunboat Diplomacy by Perry
Hello Friends. The section on the Perry Expedition and Aftermath contains the following sentence, which appears to be identical to a sentence in the entry for Matthew C. Perry. I will repost a comment I posted on the Talk page for that article: "In 1852, Perry was assigned a mission by American President Millard Fillmore to force the opening of Japanese ports to American trade, through the use of gunboat diplomacy if necessary." This statement clearly indicates that Fillmore, and by implication Pierce after him, authorized Perry to use gunboat diplomacy, in other words, threats and force. It is my understanding that the US government expressly forbade Perry to use threaten or to use force against the Japanese except in self-defense. The citation given for the reference to gunboat diplomacy is to "J. W. Hall, Japan, p.207." This citation is incomplete, as it does not cite the date of publication or the edition, and there is no further bibliographic description elsewhere at the foot of the page. It is clear, however, that the editor in question meant to cite Hall's "Japan: From Prehistory to Modern Times," for Hall wrote no other book with a similar title. I have the 8th (1978) printing of the original 1968 edition, and although the book is still on sale online, it appears to be a 2002 reprint of the same original 1968 edition since the pagination of both (and other printings) are the same. Despite a thorough search, I can find no indication that the book was ever revised and therefore assume that the pagination of the above citation and my own copy are identical. At any rate, page 207 of Hall's book discusses events more than a century before Perry's visit and makes no mention of Perry's mission. No other reference to Perry in the index leads to any statement indicating that the US government authorized Perry to use threats or force. Just to be clear, historians do widely agree that Perry did use bluffs and even ignored Pierce's order to decrease his squadron of ships to avoid seeming to threaten. The point, however, and my understanding, is that in making his bluffs and trying to seem threatening, and thus in using gunboat diplomacy, Perry was acting ultra vires. For these reasons, in the absence of additional citations, I feel the sentence as it stands, implying as it does that Fillmore authorized Perry's use of gunboat diplomacy, should be revised to reflect that such actions were taken on Perry's own initiative. Many thanks for your attention. Gunnermanz (talk) 09:30, 4 August 2018 (UTC)