Talk:Aberdeen Angus/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:38, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi, I'll take a look at this one and jot down queries below. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:38, 31 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Aberdeen angus cattle have been recorded in Scotland since at least the 16th century in North Eastern Scotland - you wanna try and avoid using "Scotland" twice in the one sentence. Try "Aberdeen angus cattle have been recorded in Scotland since at least the 16th century in the country's North East" (or give the shires/regions)


 * ...' 'throughout England, Scotland and Ireland'' -why not "throughout the British Isles"?


 * However, in the middle of the 20th century a new strain of cattle called the Red Angus emerged - surely we can do better than Britannica as a source. There must be more info on this, were they bred deliberately, was it a chance mutation etc.
 * Addressed using 2 sources. TheMagikCow (talk) 15:53, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 *  The United States do not accept Red Angus cattle into herd books, but the UK and Canada do. - needs a cite good, but now the next sentence needs a cite. Why don't the Americans accept them? Just colour?


 * The first para of Genetic disorders needs expanding. How rare are these conditions, and are they localised or worldwide?


 * :A "recessive defect" is where both parents carry a recessive gene that will affect the calf. - doesn't need to be in quote marks


 * The second para of Genetic disorders needs expanding. also, more if these are "the four", how do they relate to the first para? Is the first para recent developments, in which case it is better placed after the second para....


 * The American Angus Association needs to be a few sentences in the History My mistake, it is already, but a couple of more lines would help give some context and scope.


 * Similarly, we need more info on the Red Angus. Not needed as see also -
 * I think that as a separate breed with different association it needs a different article rather than a section in the black angus article.
 * Okay then, at a minimum you need to explain why some accept it as part of the breed and some don't. Is it just the colour, or something else? Just a sentence or two would help immensely otherwise the reader is left hanging. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:54, 2 August 2015 (UTC)


 * ditto Red Angus Association of America - could come after the mention of American Angus Association.


 * Ditto Kobe beef - warrants a line or two rather than seealso.
 * UNsure why kobe beef was included - from wagyu cattle TheMagikCow (talk) 15:54, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * There might be some material on any controversy associated with CAB worth including,

Okay, plenty of work on this one - fascinating topic and I'll try and help dig up some material. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:04, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for these; back home tomorrow so will address these! TheMagikCow (talk) 11:01, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

I think that the article is ready for a second reading/summary as I have now addressed all concerns raised. Thank you very much for this review! TheMagikCow (talk) 07:49, 3 August 2015 (UTC)


 *  Because of their native environment, the cattle are very hardy and can survive the winter. - what winter? This is too vague...


 *  There are four recessive defects can affect calves. - grammar


 *  The four recessive defects in the Black Angus breed that are currently managed with DNA tests are - you need to describe what the 4 defects are.

Okay then! All fixed. Thank you ! TheMagikCow (talk) 11:01, 3 August 2015 (UTC) I am confident that all issues are now fixed. If any our outstanding, could you please highlight them to me below? Thanks! TheMagikCow (talk) 19:26, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * sorry about delay...got distracted.


 * this source makes a distinction between native angus and other angus. It also mentions the calves being smaller at birth. These are two points that need to be in the article.
 * I thonk the (native) part means that they are not red, German or anything else. TheMagikCow (talk) 13:08, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Also still a tag.


 * references should have authors, publishers, dates whereever possible.
 * German Angus cattle needs to mentioned - just one or two sentences - and referenced.


 * Sorry for delay, on hoolday and no wifi! Will address this as soon as I get back (Sunday). TheMagikCow (talk) 11:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * ok. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:11, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * reference 8 is a bare url.


 * I'd used this source (currently an EL), rather than this as I think the first one is more neutral and independent.

Query
Cas Liber, have you done a read-through for prose quality? I'm running across many sentences that I'm having trouble parsing. In some cases, it seems to be misplaced (or missing commas), but some need more work than that. One example is the final United States sentence, It was formed because the breeders had had their cattle struck off the herd book, for not conforming to changed breed standard, of colour. I also believe the Genetic disorders subsection needs revising to reach the "clear and concise" GA benchmark. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:42, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Sigh, i was just trying to get the content to be broader and more comprehensive first, but agree. I think it is time to pull the plug. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:17, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

1. Well written?:
 * Prose quality: - prose still choppy and needs copyediting still.
 * Manual of Style compliance:

2. Factually accurate and verifiable?:
 * References to sources: - Prefer not to use EB and some of the webpages among others. Would benefit from some peer-reviewed sourcing.
 * Citations to reliable sources, where required: see above
 * No original research:

3. Broad in coverage?:
 * Major aspects: reading this, there is little information on why black and red angus are considered separate, on the distinction between native and o/s angus, and any independent appraisal of Certified Angus among other things
 * Focused:

4. Reflects a neutral point of view?:
 * Fair representation without bias: - unclear, especially regrding the Certified Angus beef

5. Reasonably stable?
 * No edit wars, etc. (Vandalism does not count against GA):

6. Illustrated by images, when possible and appropriate?:
 * Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

Overall:
 * Pass or Fail: - Sorry, there is just too much to overhaul. GA isn't supposed to be about writing the article from top to bottom. I am a bit busy now but will try and help improve this for another crack at GA down the track. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:17, 27 August 2015 (UTC)