Talk:Abi Carter

Violation of WP:COATRACK
I deleted the following content and have explained to the article's creator that it violates WP:COATRACK, but they have restored it without explaining its relevance to Abi.


 * (TB is a chain of restaurants and bars). TBMB is about a block south of O'Donnell Golf Course. The course was the first golf course built in the Coachella Valley. After Tom O'Donnell financed the expansion of The Desert Inn, Nellie Coffman who was the owner of the hotel lease O'Donnell land for him to build his golf course.

This article is about Abi, not those people or locations, so this is far too much detail about stuff where even the reference doesn't mention her. It doesn't belong in this article. It also seems promotional, so that's one more strike against it.

That content should be deleted. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 00:01, 21 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I agree. I've deleted it. Philomathes2357 (talk) 05:43, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I put it back. You are improperly connected to Valjean. Headtothestripe (talk) 06:28, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Improperly connected? That is an inversion of reality.
 * If anything, my relationship with Valjean is contentious. In fact, I disagree with much of what he does, and vice versa, which is why I glance at his contribution history from time to time - this is a case where he is simply correct, in an obvious, clear-cut way. There is no serious argument whatsoever for including the content. It does not merit further discussion.
 * @Headtothestripe, I am going to remove it again. You should be aware of this policy. If there is any reasonable argument for including the content, someone else will come along and agree with you. But that is not going to happen.
 * I do not wish to sound rude, I'm just being blunt. I suggest reading WP:COATRACK if you are taken aback by this. I hope you continue trying to improve Wikipedia in other ways. Philomathes2357 (talk) 06:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You are impolite. You have no business "currying favor" or going around following Valjean to make them happier. I can debate the editing part, but you are wrong. This Wikipedia stuff is juvenile, your behavior even more so. Headtothestripe (talk) 06:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Headtothestripe, you owe Philomathes2357 and me big apologies. You are personalizing this, making personal attacks, and assuming bad faith. You must not discuss the editor's motives, just the content and policies. You must always assume good faith. I can assure you that Philomathes2357 isn't doing anything for me or to curry my favor. They just happen to understand our policies and guidelines much better than you and are doing the right thing. You are a newbie here and need to learn from more experienced editors. If you persist, I'll open a case against you at WP:ANI where you will likely get blocked for your ownership behavior. You need to drop the stick. You are the one being impolite. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 14:38, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I am about to open a case of making threats against you. Headtothestripe (talk) 21:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You making threats. Headtothestripe (talk) 21:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You are rude. Many of you have been. If you want everything to be about "content" I can argue or debate your lack of sensibilities or interests when it comes to including facts in articles. I have said this elsewhere. Performers put shows on in more than one venue, sometimes in places right next door to another. What I was trying to say and it seems two or three of you are missing the "connection" is the following. Abi Carter performed at TB. She may well have performed at the golf course. The course is the oldest one in the city. Even if she didn't have a show there if you research or look up TB it has relevance to the course itself. NONE of you wanted Carter to have this article earlier and you are causing grief now. Headtothestripe (talk) 21:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * If you have a connection with the golf course, whether personal or professional, you must disclose it per WP:Conflict of interest. Now would be the perfect time to explain why you have persistently added info about a golf course with no discernible connection to Abi Carter, the subject of this article. "She may well have performed there" is not an adequate explanation. Wikishovel (talk) 22:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Outlandish. I am saying you (the four or however many there are of you) are taking information off off the article for no reason. You could hop around this site and do that with any other articles-why this one? I said TB is a venue which you could look up the connections to the course. I have to list each of the things you are taking off the article? To get you to leave it there? Headtothestripe (talk) 22:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Please confirm whether or not you have a connection to the golf course, either personal or professional, right now. We are waiting for your answer. Wikishovel (talk) 22:13, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm really wondering the same thing. Why the obsession with mentioning a golf course without any reliable source connecting it to Abi? That content is a classic WP:COATRACK violation, and the behavior is classic ownership behavior. With so many warnings from so many editors, including administrators, one would hope for a change in behavior, but alas.
 * The distances to other cities is also irrelevant. Anyone can click the wikilink to Indio and look it up if they wonder where it's located. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 22:30, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Deleting secondary info
Valjean, make your case here. Headtothestripe (talk) 21:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I asked Valjean to say what changes they wanted to see made. They aren't doing that. Headtothestripe (talk) 22:15, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * My edit summaries here and explanations on my talk page contain sufficient information, but you keep reverting to your preferred version, which happens to violate our policies. Stop the edit warring and ONLY discuss until there is a consensus. If you want to open a case against me, please do it right away at WP:ANI before I open a case against you there. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 22:26, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I asked for a list of changes you are attempting or wanting to make. Headtothestripe (talk) 22:30, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Headtothestripe, I already made the improvements so the article would be in harmony with our manual of style guidelines, and I have also removed the content that violates them, but you have reverted those improvements. That's not good. The article is currently in violation.
 * I'm going to step back for a bit and see what happens before taking more serious action. Maybe others will be able to convince you. You should be asking yourself why you are getting so much resistance from so many editors. The fact that you just delete the warnings from your talk page doesn't mean you can ignore them. When you delete a warning, that means you have read it and will heed it. You are not doing that. Do you think we can't see that you are deleting those warnings and then ignoring them by continuing to violate them? -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 22:56, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Why should I give you a "list of changes"? You don't own this article. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 22:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Please use edit summaries that are related to what you did. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 23:00, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Headtothestripe has been blocked for one week. Now we can make some progress in bringing this article up to our standards and in harmony with our MOS and PAG. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 15:02, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

They are now indeffed for sockpuppetry. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 00:02, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Refs
When Valjean created whichever system of formatting for references they were adding for Abi Carter, there's one problem. In footnotes you should be able to still read (without having to hover over the particular ref with a cursor) the following: American Songwriter, USA Today, Desert Sun, Yahoo, Parade, etc. If the format method is being implemented the names of the publications are being left out in the footnotes section. Headtothestripe (talk) 05:49, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I didn't originally create those refs, but have begun to repair some. I'll fix more later. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 06:20, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm finished improving the ref formats so they are standard Harvard style ref names, with all information, and with spacing so they line break when editing. That makes it easier. I haven't yet added wikilinks for all the publishers. Will work on that now. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 14:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 14:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Busking
We need sourcing for this. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 15:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 17:37, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Religion
I agree with Wikishovel that "religious family" is currently the best we can do. We can't even say that she is personally religious. There is a lot of speculation online, so we must be careful. If anyone can find anything more precise from RS, then please improve this content. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 12:51, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * BTW, although some religious people are teetotalers, Abi apparently isn't, at least not so much that she can't enjoy a shot (at the end). -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 13:26, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Boyfriend
I added content about her boyfriend. I was in doubt, but the source did point to a post on his Instagram where she calls him "my love" ("Thank you so much my love, couldn’t have done it without you 💕"), and they do seem to be in a relationship. We don't have to say more about him as this article isn't about him. It would be nice to have even more RS added to bolster that content. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 13:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Interviews
A few interviews. Feel free to add more:
 * Abi Carter and Will Moseley talk 'American Idol' journey, Good Morning America


 * American Idol: Abi Carter REACTS to Season 22 WIN! (Exclusive), Entertainment Tonight
 * American Idol Winner Abi Carter, Live with Kelly and Mark
 * Abi Carter reflects on her American Idol win, her loyal fans, and teases what's coming up next, FanSided Entertainment
 * 'Idol' Winner Abi Carter Reveals Heartbreaking Story Behind Her New Song (Exclusive)

Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 13:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

"...performances and results" table needs an addition
User:Wikishovel, I need help! We need content added to the "American Idol season 22 performances and results" table, but I can't figure it out.

The final episode had two significant events. The Top 3 were reduced to a Top 2, and then to the final winner. We don't mention the Top 2. The "Winner" belongs after that, not after Top 3. American Idol season 22 shows it.

I am using this video and this one of all her performances to keep track of what happened and when.

Right after "Somewhere", three became two, so that should be labeled "Safe":

|Duet with Bishop Briggs |"Triumph" and "River" |Bishop Briggs |rowspan="3"|Safe |- |Original Song |"This Isn't Over" |Abi Carter |8 |rowspan="3"|Winner |}

There are errors in that code. I don't know what the "rowspan" code does. Please fix it if you can. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 23:00, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi, "rowspan" allows one cell of a row to stretch across multiple rows in adjacent columns. It's a bit like merging cells in a spreadsheet. You often see it used for a year in the left hand column, with multiple item rows (films, singles, etc) for that year to the right, but you can use it in any column of a table, or in multiple columns.
 * There are some good examples in List of awards and nominations received by Ryan Gosling.
 * I can help you fix the table, but I don't quite understand yet what you want added, and where in the table. Wikishovel (talk) 23:38, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It applies to the end of the table. The duet with Bishop Briggs needs to be inserted, with the description as "Safe". -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 23:47, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Still not quite getting it, sorry. Any chance you can mock up the required bottom of the table in a spreadsheet, take a screenshot of it, and upload the image to Commons or some random image dump site? Wikishovel (talk) 00:02, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

It applies near the end of the table, right after she sang "Somewhere" and looks like this:
 * Top 3
 * "Bed of Roses" -- Safe
 * "Somewhere" -- Safe
 * (Vote between Abi, Will, or Jack}

* Duet with Bishop Briggs: "Triumph" and "River" -- Safe
 * Top 2
 * "This Isn't Over" -- Winner
 * (Vote for Abi or Will Mosely)

Then she sang "What Was I Made For?" again, but I don't think we need to mention that, as that is not part of the competition and is what the winners always do.

BTW, I don't know what the "Order" column refers to. Does it refer to song number order? -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 01:23, 1 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Come to think of it, maybe I should not add the duet. I take my cue from American Idol season 22, where the duet is listed under "Non-competition performances". Apparently, the table only includes competition performances.
 * OTOH, "Bed of Roses" and "Somewhere" should be listed as Safe in a section named Top 2. The final episode started with a Top 3, which became a Top 2, and then the Winner. We are not recognizing the Top 2. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 03:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Finally got it fixed, so marking this ✅ -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 14:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)