Talk:Abiy Ahmed

The neutrality of this article is disputed:- The page is more of a propaganda of Abiy Ahmed, than showing the real picture
Hello all, The page lacks neutrality. The page is more of propaganda for Abiy Ahmed than showing the real picture. It is mostly written to glorify Abiy Ahmed's image.
 * It has many dubious claims which seem to be added to glorify Abiy Ahmed. They could be claims Abiy Ahmed said, but they are very dubious, and they seem to be added for poetical advantage purposes.
 * It is unproportionally critical of Tigray People's Liberation Front (TPLF).
 * It does not address almost at all the 3.5 million internally displaced persons (IDPs), who the vast majority were displaced as a result of Abiy's reforms.
 * There are reports of organised ethnic cleansing and systematic persecutions by Abiy Ahmed's regional local-officials, police, and militias which the article needs to address well.

Best regards, Truth gatekeeper (talk) 08:51, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Note that this editor has been indefinitely blocked, partially because of WP:BLP violations, also misuse of sources, original research, stating disputed matter as fact, and NPOV violations, ironically. Generally a lack of understanding of policy. Doug Weller talk 19:06, 20 March 2019 (UTC)


 * However, her heart was in the right place and the indefinite ban was eventually lifted after one and a half long years (although she is currently subject to an unfair and unreasonable six month topic ban on editing "Horn of Africa" pages). I can't resist noting that recent very sad developments in Tigray indicate why she was so upset about biased reporting... BushelCandle 06:25, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Abiy Ahmed is a war criminal. That's undisputable.

https://www.justsecurity.org/77590/famine-in-tigray-humanitarian-access-and-the-war-crime-of-starvation/?fbclid=IwAR2AkIz5bsvu03uDWqWxydUTskXQps4pBNo9W43oanvjH3DAX8rkyD-S1ws

https://opiniojuris.org/2021/05/18/pandemic-of-hunger-symposium-the-ethio-eritrean-hunger-plan-for-tigray-and-the-failure-of-resolution-2417/

These are reputable sources. The Ethiopian minister's Facebook pages aren't.

Section on the ethnic unrest in Ethiopia
Recently, Truth gatekeeper has made a series of sweeping POV edits to the article based on the treatment of the Tigray (people) minority. He cites a litany of sources, but the reliable sources describe two things: ethnic violence targeting the Gedeo people and the dismissal and arrest of Tigrayan officials. Both of these developments warrant coverage in the article, but they must be covered in a matter that conforms with the WP:BLP and WP:NPOV policies. I've added a section about the violence against Gedeos, but the Tigray issue is more complex, as many of the dismissed officials are related to Ethiopia's military-industrial complex. This appears to be a power struggle, as many of these individuals were part of the previous government which used the Tigray dominated police and military to crackdown on protesters. SWL36 (talk) 18:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Hello SWL36,
 * Thank you for your comment, but please read the Talk on my page before saying I made sweeping POV edits, I have explained it there. But you made a POV on your above section yourself:- Don't you mean "which for political purpose opposition parties say is a Tigray dominated police and military" ?


 * Furthermore, if don't want to be intentionally POV, the issue with Tigrayans is much more than the made up accusations made on the Ethiopia's military-industrial complex (to selectively target Tigrayan members of the military as it happened afterwards). The issue with Tigryan now is more about the unconstitutional commission (which undermines the 1975-1991 armed struggle of Tigrayan people for self determination and for the equality of all ethnic groups in present-day Ethiopia).


 * Furthermore:-
 * Abiy Ahmed Ali also started systematically persecuting Ethiopian Tigrayans, after assuming office in April 2018.     From November 25 - December 9, 2018, Tigrayans held massive rallies (against Abiy Ahmed Ali) in 10 of the major cities/towns of Tigray region saying "respect the Ethiopian constitution". One of their main slogan from their rallies was "stop ethnic profiling Tigrayans". Abiy has also started building statues to commemorate former persecutors of  Tigrayan ethnic people, like Haile Selassie.  One of the reasons why Abiy is systematically persecuting Tigrayans is so he can get the support of Amhara extremists & former Derg members/supporters.


 * Abiy Ahmed Ali says he wants even more free-press in Ethiopia than there has already existed, so on 2019 he invited back exiled far-right extremist medias like ESAT-TV (which is a media that called for genocide of all Ethiopian Tigrayan ethnic people on 2016  ).


 * In addition to all these, please read the fear of Tigrayans of Abiy Ahmed's plan for them, on my Talk page.


 * Kind regards, Truth gatekeeper (talk) 23:43, 19 March 2019 (UTC)


 * The point about the Tigrayan domination of these institutions comes from the Reuters ("Nobody will Kneel") source that you link to:
 * "Although the Tigrayans who inhabit these craggy hills are only a small minority in a country of more than 100 million, they have dominated its power structures since 1991 when the Ethiopian People’s Revolutionary Democratic Front (EPRDF) drove a Marxist military regime from power."
 * "This [the dismissal of some Tigrayan officials] is popular with many Ethiopians who resented Tigrayan domination of institutions such as the federal police, which violently repressed the protests."
 * Other editors have reverted your additions and pointed out that they violate WP:NPOV. Also, you need to provide reliable sources WP:RS to back up any claims that you make, as the wall of text you posted on your talk page contains wild claims that are absolutely not sourced, such as:
 * " Following these rhetorics -and ethnic-based hate messages by former Derg members-, over 70,000 Tigrayans have been barbarically killed or displaced in Ethiopia, where the majority of these Tigrayan victims were in Amhara Region."
 * You are clearly here to right great wrongs (WP:RGW), a disposition that is likely to get you quickly topic banned from this area. You should quickly familiarize yourself with WP's policies and take them to heart before continuing your edit campaign. SWL36 (talk) 00:27, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * SWL36 is giving good advice here, Truth gatekeeper.
 * This is not a question of censorship or a whitewash but of complying with our long established policies - and especially with regard to our policies with regards to biographies of living persons which must be beyond reproach when it comes to adequate sourcing.


 * I would also recommend editing in smaller sessions so that editors can carefully assess changes made rather than feeling that their eyes are glazing over as they try to assess a myriad of controversial edits and consequently and carelessly reach for the revert button and 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'. --BushelCandle (talk) 08:46, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Sometimes there's not a lot of choice if you want to keep your sanity. Doug Weller  talk 09:08, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

14 year-old fighter?
At the time of writing this, our article currently states:

"As a teenager and in early 1991, he joined the armed struggle against the Marxist–Leninist regime of Mengistu Haile Mariam after the death of his oldest brother. He did so as a member of ODP (Oromo Democratic Party), which at that time was a tiny organization of only around 200 fighters in the large coalition army of about 100,000 fighters that resulted in regime's fall later that year.  As there were only so few ODP fighters in an army with its core of about 90,000 Tigrayans, Abiy quickly had to learn the Tigrinya language. As a speaker of Tigrinya in a security apparatus dominated by Tigrayans, he could move forward with his military career."

Although this is an extraordinary claim it is not impossible but I would like to see a better source that Abiy was only fourteen and a half when he joined the armed struggle.

Does anyone know if there is an official biography that I can look at online? -- BushelCandle06:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

4th or 15th Prime Minister
Recently, an editor using the IP address of 197.156.95.9 made the following comment on my talk page: "...as I've seen in the article Abiy Ahmed, he's in 15th prime minister, not fourth. In addition, the person full name describes in bold. There is million people who have a name "Abiy". Otherwise it's seems like disruption or vandalism due to ambiguous office holding position. If he is in fourth position, it should be supported by reliable sources."

Recently, an IP editor made the unsourced change from 4th to 15th.

There is a tradition for biographies of living persons in the English language Wikipedia to only use the shortened form of an individuals name after the first mention (in bold).

Although Abiy may be regarded as the 15th head of government of modern Ethiopia, the "Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia’s Office of the Prime Minister" currently states on its website page: "H.E. Abiy Ahmed Ali (PhD) is the fourth Prime Minister of the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia" and I sincerely believe that the government website is a reasonably reliable source.--BushelCandle (talk) 00:54, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Suggested improvements to the "Transparency" section
'''Going to add the below paragraph to the "Transparency" sections, feel free to improve it. (Furthermore, I don't think "Transparency" section should be under "Domestic policy", or should it?). Hi, is it okay if I add the below? (Thought I ask you since you are the last editing Admin of on page.) Loves Woolf1882 (talk) 19:29, 12 December 2020 (UTC)'''

According to NGOs like Committee to Protect Journalists and Amnesty International, Abiy's government has since mid 2019 been arresting Ethiopian journalists and closing media outlets (except for ESAT-TV). From the international media outlets, his government has suspended the press license of Reuters's correspondent, and they have issued a warning letter to the correspondents of both BBC and Deutsche Welle for what the government described as "violation of the rules of media broadcasting".

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 (talk • contribs) 05:28, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Suggested addition to the "Internet shutdowns" section
'''Wanted to add the below line to the "Internet shutdowns" sections, feel free to improve it, before I do so, thank you. Loves Woolf1882 (talk) 12:54, 14 December 2020 (UTC)'''

His government will the cut internet as and when, "it's neither water nor air" have said Abiy.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 (talk • contribs) 00:28, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

PhD
The information that Abiy's PhD thesis has apparently not been posted publicly in an institutional repository is WP:OR and not especially interesting. The repository where it would be expected to be found seems to be http://etd.aau.edu.et/handle/123456789/19. However, the Institute for Peace and Security Studies appears to have no theses or other publications deposited there at all. Human sciences, including peace research, seem to generally be a lot less transparent with less open access material than sciences like physics and astronomy. A printed copy is presumably located in the IPSS physical library.

There seems to be an implication in the text currently in the article, about "not publishing" his thesis, that Abiy did not do a real PhD; that counts as WP:OR. Boud (talk) 01:03, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The more important problem is that so far, we don't have any source saying that he was awarded the PhD degree; and we only have his own paper saying that he "completed" his PhD dissertation in 2017. So I've attributed the date as a self-claim. Boud (talk) 01:17, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Good catch! BushelCandle (talk) 06:33, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thesis found. Article updated. Boud (talk) 11:41, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Endorsement of rape
Currently we have a section called "Sexual violence in war" which includes a quote by Prime Minister Abiy (a living person) in which he jokes about sexual violence in the battle of Adwa and the Eritrean War in a January 2019 speech. The Tigray war started in November 2020. While Abiy's remarks are appalling it seems like a big accusation to say they constitute his "endorsement" of rape in war. If we are going to say he endorses rape we will need more than just this source.VR talk 14:16, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I have removed the content. I'm open to re-adding it if we find more and better sources.VR talk 14:18, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Head of state statement
The article says: "As the first Ethiopian and the first African head of state, he won the 2019 Nobel Peace Prize…". However, as prime minister, Abiy would be head of government but not head of state (that would be the president of Ethiopia). I did not want to just make a change to "head of government" since I don't know enough about peace prize recipients to know if he'd really be the first African head of government to win it, and just removing it also felt wrong. I'm not an expert Wikipedia editor, just a regular user, and I've had edits reverted previously for reasons I never understood, so I'll leave this comment here and maybe someone with more experience can fix it. It's not a huge deal anyway, I guess. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.52.127.137 (talk) 13:19, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that out. He's not the first for either of them to win the prize. I've corrected it now. Ue3lman (talk) 00:17, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Nicknames section
Should this really be its own section? Seems like it was added to POV push. 2600:1700:8311:52B0:358B:EF6E:617A:D8D2 (talk) 04:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Nobel Prize
I have amended the first paragraph to raise the prominence of the subject's status as a Nobel Prize winner. Abiy's two reasons for world prominence are his prime ministership of Ethiopia and his receipt of a Nobel Peace Prize. I say this with great respect for Ethiopia, but in truth there are hundreds of national political leaders in the world at any one time and they change often. Being a Nobel Prize winner is in most cases far more significant than simply being a national leader. Nobel Prize winners' articles at Wikipedia typically refer to the fact very early in the article. Burying the Nobel Prize below many local details of his internal career in Ethiopia risks obscuring Abiy's primary reason for world prominence. Please do not revert without discussion. If such discussion is necessary, this should inlude inviting the opinion of other contributors to this page. I should perhaps say that I am aware of the cleanup note at the top of this article, and also that the subject is likely to be a matter of controversy within Ethiopia. I have no axe to grind in the latter respect and am simply trying the help improve the article. Emmentalist (talk) 10:55, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

War criminal, accused of genocide missing from the article
Wikipedia should remove the protection template for this war criminal! TegaruFirst (talk) 12:19, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a biography of a living person. If you have sources about criminal charges against Abiy for the war crimes in the Tigray War or other events, then please provide the sources. Accusations by notable people, published in reliable soruces, might also satisfy WP:BLP guidelines, though please read the guidelines first. Then see WP:EDITREQUEST to make an edit request. This encyclopedia is run by volunteers. Boud (talk) 11:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Abuchuu koo Abba malaa
Abbichuu koo abba malaa — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.189.29.229 (talk) 15:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC)


 * For anyone who is confused as to what this is - somebody randomly spouted what seems closely like mysterious gibberish in Oromo going " O dear Abiy, Father of Tricks [Lies/Deceit?] " Ballads2110 (talk) 15:54, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Adem Ahmed Awol
I love you what ever time!! 196.190.61.251 (talk) 14:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

PhD thesis
In case anyone wishes to discuss, feel free to do so here. Boud (talk) 17:00, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Amharic spelling: which should we use?
We have in the Amharic alphasyllabary: and these each differ from one another. Only the 'y' in Abiy, and the 'A' and 'd' in Ahmed seem to have consensus.
 * አቢይ አሕመድ in the lead and infobox
 * ዐቢይ አህመድ at the Amharic Wikipedia
 * ዐቢይ አሕመድ on the government official profile (select the አ button at top right)
 * ዕቡይ አሕመድ
 * አብይ አህምድ is used by Addis Standard, a major independent Ethiopian newspaper, for a topic tag

What policy do we have in cases like this? My guess is either go by the subject's preferred spelling or by the most widely used spelling in reliable sources. The most widely WP:RS spelling would need evidence. Personal preferences would presumably go by the spelling on the official government profile. Boud (talk) 23:07, 20 February 2024 (UTC)


 * switched to:
 * ዐቢይ አሕመድ ዐሊ, which is the third in the list above (+ Ali) - from https://pmo.gov.et/pm
 * Boud (talk) 19:10, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Lack of sufficient page watching?
There are currently 143 watchers of this BLP page but it took over 12 hours from, in contradiction to the NYT source, to. Boud (talk) 15:14, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It took over 12 hours for referring to genocide and concentration camps . There's nothing wrong with raising the issues of genocide and concentration camps in this context, but the article is an encyclopedic article for a living person, so they can only be added to the page with good quality sources that establish the notability of the info and with words that accurately and carefully summarise what the sources say. Are most of the watchers just lurkers? Boud (talk) 19:17, 1 May 2024 (UTC)