Talk:Abney Park (band)

Welcome
Welcome to Abney Park's Wikipedia page! We encourage anyone who has a positive contribution or improvement to make to the article to add to it, and Wikipedia admins are encouraged to assist with guideline conformity and style format.

However, please note: this page is now being actively monitored; any additions that do not fall under Wikipedia's guidelines of verifiability, or those that include unpublished facts, arguments, or speculation, biography violations or outright vandalism will not be tolerated and will be quickly removed. Any additions that are purely promotional and non-encyclopedic will likewise be swiftly removed.

If you have any questions about such matters, please contact one of the actively involved page editors before contributing. Thank you. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 23:57, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

AEther Shanties
A user by the name of Delicious carbuncle has changed the album's article to a link to this page. Help would be greatly appreciated. *note* reverting article does nothing to help. IzzyReal (talk) 22:00, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Steam Punk
I wikified the the phrase steam punk, but, as I do so, i realise that that really points to a literary genre, not a musical one. apologies if this is considered a bad call, but I decided the conceptual link is there, and was bold.--Vidkun 19:37, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Steampunks evolution into music is not unlike Gothic literature evolving into Gothic Music. I will admit Steampunk is only just this last couple years started this evolution, and although we are one of the first and most noted bands to wave this banner there are many others. You can see a list of some of many on the Wikipedia's page on Steampunk.--Abney Park 14:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Not for nothing, being at least 2 years late, but I imagine the only "real" steampunk music would be the stuff Thomas Edison would have in his iPod. Even Marlene Dietrich would be late to that party. This is merely an 'artistic extension' of the brass-and-clockwork genre.24.228.54.78 (talk) 11:55, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Steampunk is, as you say, a brass-and-clockwork genre. Everything produced under it, be it literature, photography, sculpture, fashion or music is (by definition) an artistic extension of the genre. See Art Nouveau for an earlier genre that spanned multiple artistic extensions. -Dr Haggis - Talk 22:47, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Member Names?
It's odd to see an encyclopedia entry about a band that does not name the members of the band. Please, someone who knows should add that.

I just found out about this group, and I hope to come and see a show soon.

Scott Haley 03:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

This wiki is not written by the band
Members of the band, including myself, will sometimes log in a make minor changes to this page. For example, I changed the word "Goth" to Steampunk" and a year or so ago when we changed formats, and I changed "Bass: Jean-Paul" to "Bass: Daniel" when we got a new bass player...but apart from that, we don't write on this page. (isn't it true that WikiPedia staff can validate that statement?)

This page was created by someone I have never met, and only corresponded with on this "discussion" page. Its updated by fans I do not know, and have never corresponded with, but I thank them for there support!

- Robert, Abney Park


 * Can't help but notice you're lying. http://www.ljseek.com/any-writers-out-there-want-to-do-us-a-favor_220667773.html Deleting something from the internet to hide the evidence doesn't make it go away. Shame google or archive.org failed to cache the comments for it, where you discussed exactly how you wanted the page to look with clingy fans. -Anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.194.232.245 (talk) 20:19, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Do you have any actual proof to support your claims? All I see there is Robert asking to people to write the article (nothing wrong with that); and all I see here is some abstract (and agressive) speculation. Vanghar 15:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * He explicatively states: "This page was created by someone I have never met, and only corresponded with on this "discussion" page. Its updated by fans I do not know, and have never corresponded with, but I thank them for there support!" Yet that link shows reasonable evidence that in fact he held a discussion on his journal about editing the page with his fans (the discussions in question were not archived, but the entry gives a good indication of the kind of comments that would appear). The fact you can only access it via archive sites suggests that he also deleted it to prevent this very accusation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.35.100.1 (talk) 14:09, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Holy crap, you anonymous IP address! LOL! First off, while 'explicatively' is a word, it really shouldn't be. Just say "he explained" instead of "he explicatively states" you sound less like you're trying to out-geek the rest of the planet. Secondly, the proverbial horse's mouth his own selvis (a member of the band in question) wants to collaborate on Wikipedia regarding a page that is actually about him, and you're being snarky about it and calling him a liar!?? No wonder so few celebrities participate so directly on the Internet with fans and critics. If Alan Parsons rolled in regarding his Wiki page, or Paul McCartney, would you be so catty? ...yeah you probably would. See? This is why we can't have nice things! =P ZachsMind 01:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hear, hear! I don't really see why Anon is makign such a fuss over this. All I see is someone legitiamtely asking people to make a wiki page. I hardly see what's wrong with that, and it certainly doesn't warrant any aggresive criticism. You (Anon) seem to be twisting what isn't really there to use against Robert (for reasons unknown) - I must say you'd likely be a good spin-doctor or lawyer, but you using the word 'explicatively' does not mean Rob is trying to lie his way out of something. I mean, you say yourself there is absolutely no proof (or rather you say he deleted it, yet you can't even proove it existed and was deleted in the first place).
 * He asked fans to write a wiki page. So what? Who wouldn't!? There's nothing wrong with that, and it certainly doesn't warrant any abusive, base-less slander. Vanghar 16:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

This is Robert from Abney Park: I still don't get this Wikipedia thing, so hopefully I'm doing everything correctly. Abney Parks Wikipedia entry predates me having even heard of Wikipedia, and as you see by reading this whole page, the writer of the original Abney Park Wiki was surprised when i did finally show my face. I knew it was wrong to write or elaborate our page, so I really only appear here occasionally to make sure there are no huge inaccuracies.

Yes, at one point I thought it'd be nice if the people who wrote it put some more detail into it. I know its discouraged for me to do this, so I posted on my LJ: "Hey, one of you guys should do this!" How is that against the pure form of the wiki? One fan even wrote a very beautiful, fun and elaborate wiki back story of Abney Park...but he emailed it too me, so here it sits on my desktop unseen: I can't post it myself, even thought I did not write it.

And while I’ve got your attention, could someone please put a band photo back on the page? Perhaps something recent from out site, so the band members in it are current?
 * I was thinking about using the images from the "Rope shoot" but I'm not sure if we're allowed to do that. Do those pics belong to Gothic Beauty Magazine, or you? Plus, that set has no pics of Daniel the bassist. Are there any pics of all the band members? Maver1ck 05:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * no, those are up for grabs. You may use them. There are currently no pics of Daniel, but I'll let you know when there are.

'''This is Robert from Abney Park: I'm getting very tired of fixing factual errors in this Wiki, only to have completely out-of-the-loop strangers change it back. Example: I know better then (whoever keeps messing with this) who is currently in the band, or when I release a CD, or what style of music we play, or what instruments we play. These are not up for debate - except on Wikipedia, were it seems anyones guess is considered more valid then actual fact from the source. Frankly, this is starting to seem like a great conveyor of misinformation.''' (Robert - Abney Park) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.171.191.60 (talk) 01:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be great if you could correct any inaccurate info in this article. It's not that easy to keep up with info and news, since it's not always that easy to find it in the first place. Maver1ck (talk) 19:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

'''This is Robert from Abney Park, again. Today I found some one had basically rewritten the whole page to be filled with high-school quality insults (these guys are butt-f**kers!). A little humor would have been appreciated and laughed at, but this had about as much wit and personality as a short buss riding high-school bully. I fixed it as best I could, but this required pretty major changes. I'm starting to wonder if the concept of a public wiki as a form of information is a little like using truck stop bathroom walls as a thesaurus.'''(Robert - Abney Park)

Misc. Conversation
Citation sources removed because they reference an unverifiable first party source. Could not find other evidence to verify claims, but left a fact tag up.

Added copyright info for the image 67.173.191.11 03:42, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Edited capitalization, fixed cats and wikified.

Kamatsu

I Dont agree with the categorisation of Abney Park as 'Steampunk', and have removed said references. If you want to talk about this, just drop a line and we'll argue (J. P Marshall III)

I'm not interested in an “argument”, but I will see if I can satisfy you: in 2005 we decided to make a switch to Steam Punk from our more mainstream Gothic sound and look. We created a new look, a recent photo shoot exhibiting our new Steam Punk look can be viewed here: http://www.abneypark.com/ropes and the back story can be explored here: http://www.abneypark.com/book/book.swf.

We released a new album, The Death of Tragedy which features old world strings, violin, cello hybridized with ancient middle eastern percussion, and contemporary synths. This enigmatic remixing of eras I believe should be the definition of Steam Punk Music. Although steam punk’s place in the music world is only now being recently shaped, I firmly believe their needs to be more to the genera then mentioning old books in your lyrics: the music itself should be composed in an anachronistic way.

We are currently reshaping our public image, with interviews in most major scene magazines, and playing many fantasy festivals. We've been recognized, and reported as Steam Punk by all, including Drag*Con, the worlds biggest fantasy festival, who has invited me to speak as a panelist on the topic.

We are also releasing a book of short stories later this year, which will be fully illustrated, and feature many well known Steam Punk authors and artists. This book will tell 13 tales of Abney Park, the band, has actually traveled from the past to loot the present, traveling in a tessella powered airship named The Ophelia.

Again, I’m not interested in an “argument” as you put it, but I have no problem talking about this. It’s a fun world we are creating, and I enjoy the discussion and exploration.

- Robert Abney Park

(Robert - Abney Park)

Well there you go- Hell, i'm a huge fan, and have got most of the tracks on the death of tragedy from iTunes, brilliant stuff- but basically after I created this wiki, all I saw was some anonymous poster changing what I saw as the truth- their word against mine sort of thing. I'm happy to accept the change in regards to this now.

(J. P Marshall III)

Backstory
I've tagged the Backstory section as being unencyclopedic. It is completely fictional and not necessary in an encyclopedic setting. - Rjd0060 23:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The backstory is a part of the band in a way. Surely this could be included in the article in one way or another? Maver1ck 17:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, the backstory is wonderful but certainly not factual (and therefore unencyclopedic). However, it is rather much a part of the band (so to speak) - perhaps there is some manner it can be contained, much like a work of fiction would have a plot synopsis? Vanghar 00:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Every fictional work in this encyclopedia has an outline of the story. How is this any different? Is it the place of a wiki based encyclopedia to make the culture and artist statement, "Because this is different then other art forms, it is invalid and not allowed"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.171.180.101 (talk) 21:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Disagree with the Revert's in this article
I strongly disagree with this revert:

03:38, 23 October 2007 by User Special:Contributions/63.82.98.50

I don't see the problem with showing the bands roots in mp3.com. It is quite important to document the genesis of the group. It also adds some history and background to the article.

Also in regard to the half-cited songs like "The Wake" topping the charts, this is an important aspect of the article and while in the immediate the exact external article or website where this is written has yet to be tracked down. But that does not mean that that fact should be totally removed. It should be left in the article with a till someone can track down the article.

If we work through this i think we will end up with a much more informative, attractive and enjoyable article. -1348- 20:07, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That is totally pointless info to have in an encyclopedic entry. Knowing whether or not the band was popular on an internet based music site has nothing to do with a proper entry. You don't see that kind of information on other band sites, unless they have gold or platinum records, or if they have reached super-stardom. An entry on a self produced indie music project does not need that kind of info.
 * I don't think it's entirely pointless. Indie music is a part of a new paradigm. This is a band that isn't mainstream and you won't find on the Billboard charts, but within their own genre and the steampunk subculture, they are wildly popular, and that should be reflected. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 08:02, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

POV removal
I came to this article to find out about the band, and I found what amounted to a CD advertisement. I removed most of it. --Bkkbrad (talk) 02:24, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My edit was reverted, so I've tried to go back and remove small sections of POV material. --Bkkbrad (talk) 17:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Stigmata Martyr
I've temporarily removed Stigmata Martyr from the Albums list, as while there was a song by that name, there is some question as to whether an album by that name was ever released. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 07:57, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Backstory
The backstory has been re-added because it is an important part of the bands persona and adds to the informative quality of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IzzyReal (talk • contribs) 20:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Associated Acts
I popped on to clean up the Associated Acts section after I noticed someone had made a big change and vandalized the page. Which is basically what I do, watch a lot of pages on here and revert vandalism. Anyway, someone had blanked the entire section, and I wasn't really sure what acts should go there and what ones shouldn't. I didn't think October 27th and EaTen should be there, as they were former bands that weren't around anymore, as far as I know. As for the others... I was confused on how Deadly Nightshade Botanical Society and Imaginary Daughter related to Abney Park. So I went straight to the source, as I figured "who better to tell me than someone in the band," and wrote Robert directly. His reply was that he didn't think those two bands were technically "associated", as the first was only associated in that it was his wife's ex-husbands band, and the second only because a former singer started it.

In consulting the Infobox Template, in my estimation it looks like it's a hard call that could go either way. On the one hand it says the section should include "groups which have spun off from this group", while on the other hand, it says that the section should not include "groups with only one member in common." I'll leave as-is for now, but would like some input from others on this talk page, both those who might be familiar with the band(s) in question and those that might be more familiar with the MoS guidelines on this sort of thing. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 10:10, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Classifying their music
We need to rethink the band's genre of music, apparently. They were originally listed as "Steampunk, Industrial, Folk, Goth". User:Garret Beaumain apparently thought this list was too long (I wasn't aware there was a limit, and didn't see one in the infobox template), and arbitrarily reclassified them as "Steampunk, Neoclassical Darkwave."

Now one thing I know they are not and have never been, is "neoclassical darkwave"... whatever that is. I think that would fit a band like UXG more than this one. I asked Robert Brown directly how he would classify his own band's sound, and he said, "I would say, 'Steampunk, Gypsy, Middle Eastern, Dance.' We havn't had goth or industrial in our sound for five albums. 'Folk', I feel is too vague, and in the US means 'blue grass'. Gypsy and Middle Eastern are the sounds we mix in, and they are 'folk', if your in the Balkans and the Middle East, which is where I was when I adopted those styles." I also know that on recent albums they've also been experimenting with dieselpunk sounds and electro-swing, so they're a really hard band to pin down, thematically. If anyone has any further ideas, please discuss them here. Thanks. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 21:29, 8 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The best thing to do in cases like this is starting trolling the Internet for good references, and go with those. If you could get an official interview with Brown describing his own sound, that would be pretty great.  Meantime, here are a few decent sources I've found: "steampunk" and "goth", "steampunk" (also cites the band as the start of the movement), "steampunk", "steampunk", "steampunk" (although this calls steampunk "gothic, industrial, synth-pop, dark wave, and new wave" as well as "orchestral, ragtime, cabaret, Indian, gypsy, and even traditional klezmer music", and finally "industrial trip-hop" at good old Allmusic.  Electronic Musician magazine said "Abney Park also reached number one with 'The Change Cage' (Industrial Rock), 'Black Day,' (Darkwave), and 'No Life' (Black Metal)."  When searching for "neoclassical", I found references to the actual Abney Park, not the band. —Torchiest talkedits 20:20, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I also found this in the main steampunk article: "This range of steampunk musical styles can be heard in the work of various steampunk artists, from the industrial dance/world music of Abney Park...", with the reference:
 * —Torchiest talkedits 20:46, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I wrote that sentence, if memory serves. At least in its initial incarnation; it's been heavily edited since then. The problem with steampunk music per se is that there's no one kind of steampunk music; it's literally all over the map, since the subculture wasn't born out of a musical style. "World music" was I believe what I read Abney Park being called, which is I'd say better than "dance". "Steampunk/Gypsy/World music" or "Steampunk/World music/Dance" might be best for the infobox. What I know for certain is they are not "neoclassical darkwave." I think that would better fit a band like Unextraordinary Gentlemen stylistically. Back in the day, darkwave might have fit them since they were goth, but Abney Park hasn't been remotely goth in years.
 * Btw I do appreciate your chiming in and offering your help and advice. Thanks. And I think that citation you found might be good to fit into their early years section, which is a bit sparse citation-wise. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 23:55, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, arranging an official interview with them might be a good idea. Especially since their sound is evolving again, it seems, incorporating more dieselpunk sounds. I'll put that on my "to do" list. --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 00:17, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I also found a book from 2009 called "Steampunk Style Jewelry" that contains this embedded quote: "Their musical performances are theatrical, visual and filled with industrial and world-music overtones." --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 01:39, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I also found a book from 2009 called "Steampunk Style Jewelry" that contains this embedded quote: "Their musical performances are theatrical, visual and filled with industrial and world-music overtones." --Jonnybgoode44 (talk) 01:39, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Instruments/roles of past members
Could the instruments of past members be added? I am not aware of any rule against this, and I for one am interested in who used to do what and who took over those roles.Legitimus (talk) 14:31, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

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