Talk:Abortion in Germany

Untitled
I made a minor edit in the sentence talking about counselling. I agree that the sense of this counselling is disputed, but most counsellors don't aim at changing the woman's mind. Prorokini 10:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The article included numerous errors, mostly regarding timeline of changes etc, as well as the distorted claim about abortions in Nazi Germany that all US Prolifers seem to know.

The main source for all my changes is the German version of this article. Lewis Trondheim 17:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Translation
Where does the translation of Schwangerschaftskonfliktberatung as "unwanted-pregnancy counseling" come from? The word does not imply anything about a pregnancy being unwanted in its German original. It only implies a conflict or issue, which could also be medical. Unless there is some official source for this, the translation should be changed into "pregnancy conflict counseling" or similar. 188.63.148.228 (talk) 21:11, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

== Suggest removing the non-relevant sentences about the "Cross of Honour of the German Mother" It is inappropriate to have the section about the "Cross of Honor of the German Mother" section in a wikipedia entry about abortion. It would be appropriate to mention that the NS regime increased the penalties for abortions of "Aryan" women. And not every article about Germany needs a picture of Nazi insignia (here with the depiction of the "Cross of Honor of the German Mother") - certainly this one does not. 2601:152:4001:23E1:9DEC:2227:4168:A316 (talk) 22:01, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Conflicting paragraphs?
Firstly we can read that Nazi Germany's eugenics laws liberalized abortion: Nazi Germany's eugenics laws liberalized abortion for both Aryan and non-Aryan women. Aryan women could obtain an abortion simply by demonstrating that either parent had an hereditary defect, or that the child would be born with a congenital defect. Non-Aryan women were "encouraged" to utilize contraception and abortion in order to reduce their populations.[2][citation needed]

Later opposite: In Nazi Germany, the penalties for abortion were increased again. In 1943, providing an abortion to an Aryan woman became a capital offense. Abortion was permitted if the fetus was deformed or disabled.[3][4]

Or I'm reading this wrong and "Nazi Germany's eugenics laws" have nothing to do with "Nazi Germany"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arvenil (talk • contribs) 20:11, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Abortion is illegal in Germany (§ 218) Abortion has never been legalized in West Germany, and is still illegal according to §218. In 1974 the parlament voted for a modifikation of this paragraph, according to which the law is not enforced in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. This law was overthrown by the German supreme court in 1975. In 1976, the West German parliament passed a modified version of this law. According to this version, the law is not enforced on pregnant people and doctors in a number of "indications": within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, when the mother's health is in danger, when pregnancy resulted from rape; also, women must undergo councelling before they have abortions.

$218 is also tied to a law making "advertisment" for abortion illegal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.75.255.42 (talk) 18:24, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Abortion is illegal in Germany
Abortion is illegal in Germany (§ 218)

Abortion has never been legalized in West Germany, and is still illegal according to §218. In 1974 the parlament voted for a modifikation of this paragraph, according to which the law is not enforced in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. This law was overthrown by the German supreme court in 1975. In 1976, the West German parliament passed a modified version of this law. According to this version, the law is not enforced on pregnant people and doctors in a number of "indications": within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, when the mother's health is in danger, when pregnancy resulted from rape; also, women must undergo councelling before they have abortions.

$218 is also tied to a law making "advertisment" for abortion illegal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tennerbaum (talk • contribs) 18:25, 21 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Abortion is permitted under Section 218a of the German criminal code, this should be made clear in the lede.

Section 218a Exception to liability for abortion

(1) The offence under section 218 shall not be deemed fulfilled if

1. the pregnant woman requests the termination of the pregnancy and demonstrates to the physician by certificate pursuant to section 219(2) 2nd sentence that she obtained counselling at least three days before the operation;

2. the termination of the pregnancy is performed by a physician; and

3. not more than twelve weeks have elapsed since conception.

(2) The termination of pregnancy performed by a physician with the consent of the pregnant woman shall not be unlawful if, considering the present and future living conditions of the pregnant woman, the termination of the pregnancy is medically necessary to avert a danger to the life or the danger of grave injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman and if the danger cannot reasonably be averted in another way from her point of view.

(3) The conditions of subsection (2) above shall also be deemed fulfilled with regard to a termination of pregnancy performed by a physician with the consent of the pregnant woman, if according to medical opinion an unlawful act has been committed against the pregnant woman under sections 176 to 179, there is strong reason to support the assumption that the pregnancy was caused by the act, and not more than twelve weeks have elapsed since conception.

(4) The pregnant woman shall not be liable under section 218 if the termination of pregnancy was performed by a physician after counselling (section 219) and not more than twenty-two weeks have elapsed since conception. The court may order a discharge under section 218 if the pregnant woman was in exceptional distress at the time of the operation. 2A02:2F01:51FF:FFFF:0:0:6465:5DAD (talk) 04:40, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * You continue to ignore §218, where it is forbidden. I repeat: It is forbidden, but permitted under some circumstances. It was allowed in the GDR since 1972.Oneiros (talk) 06:36, 28 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Abortion is not forbidden, I repeat: It is not forbidden, if the requirements of Section 218a are met, as the IP has correctly explained above. --Yhdwww (talk) 17:54, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

There is space in this article for a discussion of the distinction between "forbidden, but permitted under some circumstances" and "allowed", but it's not in the lede paragraph. For the purposes of the introduction, the exceptions in 218a are most important. The full discussion can come later. I have made this change. Wikiacc (¶) 00:15, 20 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I Agree. --Yhdwww (talk) 10:43, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Disagree. The lede should make it clear that is illegal. Yes, there are circumstances were it is allowed, but by default it is forbidden and women have to bear the children ("Austragungspflicht"). See also the German wikipedia: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwangerschaftsabbruch#Geltendes_Recht --Oneiros (talk) 21:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

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