Talk:Abraham Brodersson

What makes him Swedish?
I am not necessarily opposed to AB being characterized as Swedish since he clearly has a connection to that country, but he is considered Danish in Denmark and I wonder what criteria have been used to determine his nationality? Abraham Brodersson grew up in the kingdom of Denmark (his father Broder Simonsen owned and lived on Skedal manor in Halland, which was a Danish province back then, it only became Swedish in 1645), and while the Baad family was typical "border gentry" and some members owned land in Västergötland and Småland on the Swedish side of the border it originated in Halland and belonged to the Danish nobility. If he is characterized as Swedish he should at least be mentioned as "Danish born" (though I am not sure if it can be sourced that he was born on Skedal) or "from Denmark". He also owned land in both countries and his most important position was arguably in his ancestral Halland.

His name in Danish is traditionally given as Abraham Brodersen Baad and in some modern texts as Abraham Brodersøn Båd and I think that should be included. I assume Abraham Brodersson (without including the family name Baad) is the form used in English, but it should at least be checked that it hasn't just been copied from a Swedish text.

His last wife belonged to the Zealandic noble family later known by the nickname Jernskæg (Iron Beard), the Jaernskaegg version of the name seems odd - I assume it's Järnskägg in the Swedish source quoted. Her name was Cecilie (or Sidsel, which is the colloquial form) Nielsdatter Jernskæg, also known as Sidsel of Dronningholm (after a castle in Northern Zealand). Since she was born within the boundaries of modern Denmark and from a family originating within modern Denmark I find it even odder to give the Swedish version of her name.

The article quotes a lot of "gossip" from 19th century texts (even one 18th century) about his relationship to the Queen and potential fatherhood of a daughter out of wedlock with her, this comes off as a little too authoritative, modern historians are more careful about acknowledging such old tales. Maybe some modern and more critical sources could be used.

I am not active on Wikipedia anymore and don't have time to look for sources, but this seemed odd and I thought I would make a note about it.--Batmacumba (talk) 13:56, 29 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I've gotten not replies to this and it's been half a year, so I've changed it to dual nationality and Scandinavian. If you disagree please discuss it here rather than revert the changes.--Batmacumba (talk) 06:19, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Welcome back! --SergeWoodzing (talk) 11:24, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Controversies
This subject seems to be described on certain websites and in certain old books as a greedy landowner who was brutal and talentless and favoured only because he was handsome. However other sources (majority I've read), especially modern ones such as Richard White's, seem to portray him as a able military commander and advisor, and that if Margaret loved him even in a romantic way, it was partly because of her justified admiration and gratitude for him. I hope to have more clarifications on his character, his history...etc from other contributors, especially Scandinavian editors. It seems at worst the reality lies between two representations. It sounds unlikely that a Queen of Margaret's character and stature could just blindly allowed a talentless aristocrat to rise to such heights, considering that despite her affection for him and despite his obviously (at least) more experienced military mind, she showed such restraints that she allowed Eric to be the Commander-in-Chief, so that her nephew could have a chance to prove himself and gain reputation, and established a clear chain of command between them.

Especially the Swedish/Danish/Norwegian sources would be welcomed. Deamonpen (talk) 06:38, 9 September 2016 (UTC)