Talk:Accurist/Archive 1

section
this webpage was clearly created by an SEO content farmer. All but a few of the 30 citations made were all links to SEO content farms or marketing blurbs at online web stores.

frankly I think the article should be deleted

James Thompson online: accurist watches the history of one of the leading watch brands whois Creation Date: 24-apr-2011

"What they are called initially behind Accurist were Asher and Rebecca Loftus, who initially emerged using the aim of developing a brand of lasting value, using on the highest quality materials and time pieces because of its watches. "

The text of the article appears to be an automated translation of an article from another language, or perhaps an automated translation of an original English article into a different language and then translated back into English with another automated translation tool.

no identity to the true author

reference number 2, article Alley http://daniel2.articlealley.com/accurist-watches--accurate-british-watches-for-your-wrist-1902946.html article Alley is one of those "free web content" generation sites. Anyone can submit an article and there is no editorial oversight. The article is a tribute to someone named Daniel with no last name Daniel appears to have written many articles about watches\ Daniel has 127 articles on article Alley. He joined air in February of 2010 and there is no other information about him.

Conclusion Daniel may not be a real person, or Daniel may be a collection of real people, or Daniel may be an individual. However there is no indication of any expertise or credibility about the subject he is writing on and from the tags on his articles, numbering almost 60 different subjects, it is apparent, or at least very likely that he is generating content strictly to be used for SEO purposes. Ironically enough one of his topic labels is SEO.

Conclusion all articles from this author or from article Alley can be deleted as they are not credible.

Reference number 3, ubscure.com. Yes that is the way it is spelled for the website. http://www.ubscure.com/Art/92917/163/Accurist-Watches-A-Brief-History.html ubscure.com is another SEO website content farming site authors biography: http://www.ubscure.com/Author/49397/Jenny-Renn.html author has written a number of articles about time pieces and according to her biography information she has a website that sells watches and other time keeping items. There is no documentation of any professional expertise or academic background in the subject area

Conclusion: author is not a credible expert and author has a distinct conflict of interest in the area of financial gain. All citations for articles from this author and from ubscure.com should be deleted.

Reference number 4 http://www.i-watchestime.com/accurist-watches-the-history-of-one-of-the-leading-watch-brands/ the article that appears to be the same article on the history of the Accurist brand. Slightly rephrased in each paragraph. There is no attribution, no author to the website itself has no identity either. There is no information about who owns the website or who created it or what its purpose is. A quick perusal of the website shows that all the content is similarly uncredentialed and only one topic is covered: "watches"

Conclusion the website was simply and solely created for the purpose of SEO content farming. All all citations referencing these articles should be deleted the who is information for this website shows no identifying information except a customer number NCR-3287281 Creation Date:  2011-05-11 04:51:57

Reference number 5 https://sites.google.com/site/watcharticlesandvideos/Accurist-Watch-Articles a Google website that claims to be an Amazon affiliate. But links to intabuy-watches.co.uk which is an online web store selling guess what: watches a quick Google search reveals that the articles available on both ezinearticles.com and "articlesnatch.com" conclusion no indication of any credentials or expertise, and article is from SEO content farms. Delete the article.

Reference number 6 website mrprot.com http://www.mrprot.com/accurist-watches-a-timeless-british-classic yet another copy of the same Accurist history article the site claims to be a fashion blog. It was registered in 2008 and has a total of 12 articles on it.

All the articles are the same, glowing descriptions of various consumer items. None of the articles have any attribution for authors there's no evidence of any credentialing for any of the authors there is no identity as to who owns the website or is authoring the blog conclusion another SEO content farm, delete any citations from this site

Reference number 7 ernestjones.co.uk http://www.ernestjones.co.uk/webstore/static/brands/accurist-watches.do the URL cited is a page of marketing material for Accurist watches. There is no authorial attribution. The website in question is a online website for a retail store for Accurist watches conclusion: the article cited is a marketing brochure. There is no author cited and no evidence of credentialed expertise delete this citation and any other citations referencing this website

Reference number 8 hsamuel.co.uk/ http://www.hsamuel.co.uk/webstore/static/brand-pages/accurist-watches.do in terms of content this site appears to be a nearly exact copy of the web store mentioned in reference number 7 indeed, clicking through the careers link at the bottom of the page brings you to: http://ernestjonescareers.co.uk/ where H Samuel, Ernest Jones, and Leslie Davis are identified as the 3 different retail chain brands all run by Ernest Jones. Conclusion citation is marketing material. No credentialed expertise. Delete this citation and any other citations referencing this website

Reference number 9 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/time-has-come-for-accurist-1275845.html the independent appears to be an actual newspaper, and the article mentions Roger Trapp as the author googling Roger Trapp shows over 8000 links and many references to him as being on the business staff at the independent as well as a number of other authorial endeavors, typically focused on business writing. Conclusion: the independent is unknown publisher of newspapers and Roger Trapp is an experienced journalist while no credentialed expertise is evident, the experience of the journalist and the reputation of the newspaper make this citation worth keeping.

Reference number 10 http://www.versacepreciousitems.com/pdf/CustomerService.pdf the article in question is a pdf file containing the list of stores that provide customer service for Versace items. There is no indication in the file that Accurist has signed up to become the distributor for Versace in the United Kingdom. Conclusion citation offers no relevant material, delete. Also remove the information the citation is referenced for as no such claim is made within the document

Reference number 11 http://www.brandrepublic.com/news/948294/John-Cleese-set-reprise-Accurist-ad-role/ brandrepublic.com Brand Republic is an industry journal focusing on advertising, marketing and public relations. Business journals have a wide range of levels of credibility. Some are little more than mouthpieces speaking for the various businesses in their industry segment, and others are much more trustworthy. None of them rise to the level of journalistic integrity of a publication like the independent newspaper in the United Kingdom, or the New York Times or the Boston Globe etc. fortunately this article confined itself to making a series of short statements of fact. Most of the statements are not at all notable. What is notable is that the Wikipedia article has taken the statements made in this article and interpreted them in ways that are not supported by the facts. Or presented them in a way which omitted critical information giving the reader of the Wikipedia articles a false impression of events or meaning. Conclusion: allow the citation to stand, remove information in the article which has been "spun" to give the readership false impressions

Reference number 12 http://www.imdb.com/news/ni1124185/ the article in question references, or sites another website which focuses on celebrity or entertainment news, but no actual article was found on that website conclusion: original article cannot be found, delete the citation.

Reference number 13 http://www.fhinds.co.uk/Watches_Information/Accurist_Watches.html the site is another online retail web store of watches and jewelry etc. the article is yet another unattributed marketing blurb. Conclusion: delete the citation

Reference number 14 http://www.flatin.co.uk/2011/06/accurist-watch/ Registered on: 24-Jan-2011 Registrant: Moore Domains Ltd another very small very young website with no authorial attributions for any of the content and no identification of the owner of the website or the purpose of the website. Conclusion: another SEO content farming site. Delete the citation and any other citations which reference articles from this website.

Reference number 15 http://www.brandrepublic.com/brandrepublicnewsbulletin/login/483336/ Brand Republic is the business Journal in the advertising marketing media and public relations business sectors Accurist censured after complaints about indecency in watch ad    by Ben Bold, brandrepublic.com, 06 July 2005, 08:30AM LONDON - Watch brand Accurist has reinforced its reputation for creating risque ads by landing itself in trouble with a magazine ad that seems to show a woman pleasuring herself. The article is behind a pay wall. Free registration is available to view a limited number of articles per month. The article limits itself to the factual statements, and quotes statements attributed to individuals interviewed for the article. Conclusion keep the citation, delete any material which the statement's in the article do not support.

Reference number 16 http://www.professionaljeweller.com/article-8660-accurist-pushes-charmed-with-six-figure-campaign/ the author attribution is Rachel Taylor the article announces a six-figure advertising campaign for the "charmed" line. Most of the article's content is a direct quote from the Accurist spokesperson. The material which is quoted is properly shown as being quoted. The website appears to be a business journal publication focused on the professional jeweler the publisher is "ProMedia" which runs a number of business sector focused journals conclusion the article which is cited contains very little credible material and serves mostly as a mouth piece for the advertising of the Accurist line. The factual statement of the commencement of the advertising campaign does appear to be credible. The rest the article appears to be a subjective description of the content of the ad campaign by the Accurist company spokesperson. Conclusion the portion of the citation which describes the commencement of the advertising campaign is credible. The rest of the material is not. Any material in the Wikipedia article which relies upon the citation of anything but the commencement of the advertising campaign should be removed as unsourced material.

Reference number 17 http://www.thewatchhut.co.uk/watch-news/accurist-charms-tv-audiences/ the website in question is a online retail watch store. The article cited has no authorial attribution conclusion: delete the citation, and delete any citations which rely on articles from this website

Reference number 18 http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1002844 the content of this website is unattributed public contributions. While the article makes interesting reading it is completely and utterly unattributed with no information about the source of the material whatsoever. Conclusion: delete the citation and any citations which rely on articles from this website

Reference number 19 http://www.responsesource.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=66271 this website is a publishing service for business public relation announcements. The content of this page is a news release from the watch hut which is an online retail website for watches written by Richard jarrot, who is in employee of the watch hut. Conclusion: the citation is not credible, it should be deleted and any citations which reference articles from this website should be deleted

Reference number 20 http://www.moodiereport.com/document.php?c_id=1134&doc_id=27656 this website appears to be nothing more than a mouthpiece for any business which uses its services at the bottom of the article a long line of contact information is given for Paul Halliday at the Accurist company. Most of the content of the article is material quoted from sales director Paul Halliday of the Accurist company. Conclusion: the citation is not credible, it should be deleted and any citations which reference articles from this website should also be deleted

Reference number 21 http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/aug/25/btgroup Martin Wainwright The Guardian,	 Sunday 24 August 2008 the website is a well-known and credible journalistic publication. The authors also a credible journalist. The content of the article details a change to the sponsorship of the talking clock in Britain. Conclusion: the article and its attributed author and publisher are credible. Keep the citation

Reference number 22 http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LNjiqlKYbsEC&q=accurist+watches+history&dq=accurist+watches+history&hl=en&ei=yuw7TufpKtDz-gaY6dmLDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CF4Q6AEwBA the article "cited" is a tiny section of text from a Google books entry which is a portion of a travel guide. Travel guides are tremendously subjective documents and have no credentialed expertise. The tiny portion cited mentions the "Accurist Millennium Countdown Clock" being visible.

Reference number 23 http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=qwA8TrrkCcSe-waXvbSkAg&ct=result&id=WhjxAAAAMAAJ&dq=accurist+watches+millennium&q=accurist#search_anchor the article cited is a tiny section of text from a Google books entry, containing a slice of a page from a magazine article. The entry is too small to determine the actual meaning or context of the mention conclusion: the article cited may or may not contain any relevant information since it cannot be seen at the URL cited. Delete the citation and any information sourced from it.

Reference number 24 http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=qwA8TrrkCcSe-waXvbSkAg&ct=result&id=dTxBAQAAIAAJ&dq=accurist+watches+millennium&q=accurist#search_anchor another Google books entry text is too small and illegible to be of any use. Conclusion delete the citation and any material which sources it

Reference number 25 http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=qwA8TrrkCcSe-waXvbSkAg&ct=result&id=qAAgAQAAIAAJ&dq=accurist+watches+millennium&q=accurist#search_anchor another useless Google books entry. Delete the citation and any material which sources it

Reference number 26 http://www.thegreenwichmeridian.org/tgm/articles.php?article=12 the site appears to be down, or the link is dead or both. Managed to get to the website through archive.org. Archive.org today live fetch which means the website is up but for some reason I can't get to it directly. The content of that webpage has no author and no links or references to the information it claims. Conclusion the information is not credible, the citation should be deleted and any articles citing this article should also be deleted any information in the Wikipedia article which uses the citation as a reference should be deleted as it is unsourced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jjk (talk • contribs) 03:43, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Reference number 27 http://www.visit4ads.com/advert/Accurist-Watches-The-Grand-Complication-Accurist-Watches/19176 this website appears to be collections of old advertisements the article cited appears to be a portion of an old advertisement for Accurist watches. Conclusion the citation is not credible. Delete the citation and delete any citations which reference articles from this website.

Reference number 28 http://maritimeasia.com/accurist-watches-a-timeless-british-classic/ another copy of that Accurist biographic material apparently written by someone from a marketing agency who also did not speak English and translated the article into their native language using some kind of automated tool and then translated back into English using and other automated tool.

The website has no authorial attributions and provides no identification of the person or business who owns the website and its purpose the who is information shows yet another website whose contact information points to webarcades.info. Conclusion the website is another SCO content farm. conclusion: the citation is not credible and should be deleted. All citations referencing articles from this website should also be deleted. Any material which sources the citations should also be deleted

Reference number 29 http://www.abasapema.com/2011/07/21/ccurist-watches-a-timeless-british-classic-nbsp-nbsp-by-find-watches/ the site is a WordPress blog. There are no authorial attributions, and there is no identification of the person or business who owns the website or its purpose. The who is information reveals yet another registrant who has an e-mail address at webarcades.info conclusion: the website is yet another SCO content farm. Delete the citation and delete any citations which reference articles from this website. Delete any material which sourced the citations as references

Reference number 30 http://ukwatchsite.co.uk/accurist-watches-the-history-of-one-of-the-leading-watch-brands/ yet another copy of that history of the Accurist brand marketing brochure. The website has no authorial attributions and there is no identification of the person or the business who owns the website or its purpose. The website was registered in 2005 and it only has about 15 articles on it. There is a news entry/section which has 5 articles on it all of them containing the word watches. 2 of them are laughably contextually inappropriate as they have nothing to do with timepieces. One has to do with watching 2 thieves steal kayaks and the other has to do with a crimewatch which unless it's referring to the crime that that website constitutes itself because of its poor content is probably not what they wanted. Conclusion: the website is yet another SCO content farm. Delete the citation and delete any citations which reference articles from this website

Jjk (talk) 03:22, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Accurist Page
Hi JjK

Hope you are well.

I am writing with regards the Accurist Watches page.

As I have deep knowledge about the company, I tried to build its page.

However, I noticed you changed it.

I understand the references I used are not academic, however there are no academic sources for this company.

My intention was not to drive traffic to those websites, I am not an SEO content farmer. I have no idea about SEO!

When I first started writing this article, the user Fish&Karate reviewed it and said the article was very good.

As I am new to Wikipedia, could you, please, advice on that?

Kind regards

Harryapostol (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:38, 21 September 2011 (UTC).

accurist page
Hi Harry, I like Accurist watches. And John Cleese. :-)

At the url below I recorded what I found at each citation in the article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Accurist

Read what I found about the citations.

I'm was surprised to get a messages from you. It implies that you're a real person! :-)  From the content of the article I was truly convinced that the article was written by a SEO spammer. Wikipedia requires the presumption of good will so I'm assuming you're not a spammer.

Please read what i wrote on the accurist talk page about why each citation was removed. And pay special attention to the citations that were not removed! You'll learn more from them.

Here are my hints about citations: Most of your citations were not from credible sources so learn what a credible source is. Hint - any website that has an article about something they sell, and the article has no author or source mentioned? Not credible. Why not? because its just advertising or marketing material. if it has an author - who is it? if they work for the company, or a PR or communications firm, .. its just more advertising. Only if the author is a recognized expert in the field would I consider content from a retailing web site, with some exceptions. Every rule or guideline has exceptions, especially here on WP. :-)

WP policy is that content has to be verifiable, and that sources have to be credible. Read the WP articles about these things and try to absorb as much of it as possible. then learn how to apply that information Start by reading these two: [|Identifying Reliable sources] []

Well known newpapers have policies about having their articles fact checked before they are published. They even have people called "fact checkers" whose job it is to .... check facts! So major Newspapers have an established history of credibility.

Academic papers and Scientific Journal: be careful here - SEO content farmers are starting to forge formats that appear to be scientific journals, so make sure that you trace the source of anything that looks like it comes from a journal all the way back to its real source. CIa World factbook - generally ok http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Shared_Resources  List of sources, and some non-sources at the bottom.

OK, thats a start. found your message to me late at night but felt i owed you a response after such major alteration of your article. So excuse me if content here is not too coherent.

re adding stuff back in - if its verifiable, please do add stuff back in. if you can find a credible citation for it all the better!

In fact you can go back to an earlier version of the article and copy text from there to add back into the page. But.. if you're going to do citations, please do better ones. :-)

Jjk (talk) 06:25, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Accurist Page
Hi Jjk,

Thanks for your message on my Talk page and your advice.

As I told you before, there are no ACADEMIC sources for Accurist company.

However, when I started building its page, my guide was the pages of other watch companies, such as Citizen, Bulova, Casio and Rolex.

If you see the Citizen page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_Watches) they are ONLY using their own website as a source. RELIABLE? Not according to you.

If you see the Bulova page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulova) they are using both their website and other websites, which do not seem very reliable, according to what you wrote me.

If you see the Casio page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio) their ONLY reference is their official website and corporate website. Also, another website, which actually does not work. RELIABLE? Not according to you. Plus, they have images of their products. Not advertising?

If you see the Rolex page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolex) they are using their official website and the website of their child brand (Tudor) and images of their products. However, I should recognise that the Rolex page is using many reliable sources (magazines, newspapers etc).

All the above imply to me that either the sources I used for the Accurist page should be acceptable, or the pages of the above brands should be deleted as well.

Otherwise, I could just reference the Accurist website, if that is acceptable.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Harryapostol (talk) 10:00, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

more on accurist
hi Harry, just got your latest message and I see the you're trying to say that because the other watch articles are using the company's own pages as citation sources, that it will be okay to do so for the Accurist article.

Interjection: today's response was written with a speech recognition system because my hands are not working today. Unfortunately when using the speech recognition system you tend to get a stream of consciousness kind of blast which is, in my case always way too long. So I want you to know that the most important part of what I have said you today is down near the bottom of the article. So focus on that part and don't pay overmuch attention to the rest of it. We now return you to your mainline text! :-)

Okay at the top of your talk page here you will see that there is a reference to an article about How_to_develop_an_article

in that article under section 2.1.1, "finding relevant articles" you'll find information about Wikipedia's policies on verifiability and reliability for sources. You should read those 2 articles carefully to see that your references and citations meet the criteria they establish.

My perspective on using articles about a company's products that are published by the company is that there is an inherent conflict of interest. If it is a marketing or sales or advertising article it's going to be inherently biased in a perspective it presents about the product.

If it's reference material, such as the documentation for Intel's CPU chips that they give to electrical engineers so they know how to design components that will be compatible with the CPU, that's a different story. That information is published as a technical reference to the CPU and those reference documents have to be as accurate as they can possibly be made in order for the product to be used. as a matter of side interest those reference manuals always have errors in them and the errata are always being published in catching up for them.

I have not had a chance to look at the pages of the other watch brands that you mentioned, but in the end it is your decision whether to include something or not but remember you have to try to make your citations meet with Wikipedia's policies on those.

One of Wikipedia's policies is that if an editor is going to put deleted material back in that they have to have a citation for that material.

I wonder if it would be simply more expedient to put the text you want in and not add a citation for it unless you can find a verifiable or reliable one?that way you'd be able to put your content into the article without having the citations being examined. Although that conflicts with the burden of proof policy for putting material back into an article after it has been deleted.

below here is the shortcut to the Wikipedia article on verifiability. In an article it talks about when reliable sources are needed, and it also talks about, a little further down how to tell whether something is a reliable source. A suggestion read that article very carefully and closely. It is really important if you want to have your citations look good.

PS I just want you to know that what I wrote you today was written using a speech recognition system that I have to use sometimes because of nerve damage I have. And that means there are probably a series of misrecognized words in the text. So if you run across a portion of what I wrote today that simply doesn't make any sense, please keep that in mind. Sometimes speech recognition systems to really wonderful accurate translations and sometimes they just go to heck in a handbasket.

Also I want you to know that you should not take any of what I have said as an attack or criticism of you. Frankly, if I could I would go back and not do any of the editing that I did on your article. I didn't realize it was somebody's 1st article, so I want to same very sorry about that. If that had happened to my 1st article I would be very discouraged and I don't want that to happen to you. So I may be very busy for the next few weeks working on a trial won't have time to look at any of this.

So I think you should go ahead and do what you think works best for the article, and says the things that you think need to be say about Accurist. There is always time later to deal with anything that comes up.

So hang in there, and don't sweat the details! :-)  Jjk (talk) 19:54, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

update
I reversed the article to an older version after the debate with the user Jjk, as shown above.

I delete some of the the citations and added the company's official website, where applicable.

Please write here if you wish to make any changes. But read the above before you do.

Thanks

Harryapostol (talk) 09:54, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

This wiki entry appears to be an advertisement for Accurist watches.
This wiki entry appears to be an advertisement for Accurist Watches. I have added tage until it is disputed or cleaned-up.

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 one external links on Accurist. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.jamesthomsononline.com/accurist-watches-the-history-of-one-of-the-leading-watch-brands/
 * Added tag to https://sites.google.com/site/watcharticlesandvideos/Accurist-Watch-Articles
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111103222530/http://www.flatin.co.uk:80/2011/06/accurist-watch/ to http://www.flatin.co.uk/2011/06/accurist-watch/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120317003954/http://www.professionaljeweller.com/article-8660-accurist-pushes-charmed-with-six-figure-campaign/ to http://www.professionaljeweller.com/article-8660-accurist-pushes-charmed-with-six-figure-campaign/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111012164115/http://www.thewatchhut.co.uk:80/watch-news/accurist-charms-tv-audiences/ to http://www.thewatchhut.co.uk/watch-news/accurist-charms-tv-audiences/
 * Added tag to http://ukwatchsite.co.uk/accurist-watches-the-history-of-one-of-the-leading-watch-brands/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150206155723/http://www.springetts.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Logo_Accurist.jpg to http://www.springetts.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Logo_Accurist.jpg

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 08:22, 3 October 2016 (UTC)