Talk:Ace in the Hole (1951 film)/Archive 1

"Ace in the Hole" - Title
I have seen this film on TV several times since the 1960s, both in Ireland and the UK, and the title has always been "Ace in the Hole". Perhaps it is only in the USA that the title "The Big Carnival" persisted until the era of TCM.

It may not have been a box-office success, but I have always rated it among Kirk Douglas's best, second perhaps only to "Paths of Glory". 92.3.60.76 (talk) 00:45, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.60.76 (talk) 00:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I went to this page to say precicely the same thing. This film was making the 16mm rental rounds as Ace in the Hole, and all the rep houses billed it as such -- in 1970s U.S. The film also had distribution as "The Big Story." The article has its chronology wrong.69.231.194.49 (talk) 15:10, 14 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I will investigate this later today for a clearer explanation. Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 15:48, 14 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I've only seen the movie once easily 20-25 years ago here on Australian television and it was definitely called "The Big Carnival" it took me a while to find this article to reference due to search engines listing the unfolding Thai Cave rescue of a soccer team and their ?coach? - their rescue is thought to take four months at this early stage, hence my recalling "The Big Carnival" Timelord2067 (talk) 04:49, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

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Alternate ending?
Following on from my previous post, was there an alternative ending filmed? I recall the reporter (Douglas) working for the local news paper at the very end of the movie after he gained a conscience after the cavers' death and blurted out the news of the death before he could call it in to New York. The tourists who'd come to see the attraction pack their bags and cars and leave. Shots of the various carnival rides abandoned (as though to reinforce the notion of it having been a Carnival) Timelord2067 (talk) 05:00, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Neither the extensive notes about the film in the AFI Catalog nor the TCM article say anything about a changed ending. A Google search didn't turn up anything either. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:20, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Not a film Noir
I'm not sure why it's described as a film noir. Noirs are mysteries, often a cat and mouse game between the lead and femme fatale. Crime is prevalent, betrayal is prevalent. Some of these elements are present in Ace in the Hole, such as the betrayal by the wife, or her presence as a femme fatale character of sorts. But the setting and main character is all wrong. Film noirs thrive on letting their leads slip further+ and further down the slope until the inevitable happens, often death. There is no mystery in this film, and Douglass isn't sucked into a dark world under the surface of what the public sees, he IS that dark world. He's not the amoral, rough around the edges detective, or insurance agent, he's a master manipulator. His arc is one of redemption, although it falls short. In my mind, the elements of mystery, seduction, crime and fate are what define the genre of noir. 23.93.127.51 (talk) 16:14, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The description of the film as "noir" is sourced to an article in Slate magazine. Do you have a source which says that the film is not noir? Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:09, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, as the article itself points out, Eddie Muller, an authority on noir, does not consider the film to be noir. I have adjusted the lede accordingly. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:14, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No, it's hardly noir. It's generally farcical, despite some pathos for balance. That is ironically similar to the farcical use of "lede" for the correct word "lead" meaning the leading paragraph of an article. The pathos is the sad acceptance of such a monstrous word. Cheers. Wastrel Way (talk) Eric
 * The only farce here is the behavior of people who act as if they know more then they actually do. "Lede" is used in the newspaper business to describe the lead paragraph, and was invented precisely to differentiate it from "lead" (pronounced "leed") and "lead" (pronounced "led").  When a newsperson uses "lede", there is no ambiguity whatsoever about what is meant. Incidentally, "irony" means "the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect", so there's absolutely no irony in the use of "lede", nor is the usage "farcical" in any way. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:06, 16 June 2023 (UTC)