Talk:Achaemenid Empire

Article Too Long
This article, likely would qualify as a B-class article, but it contains too much information, some of it which is quite irrelevant. There should be an increased use of summary style in the article. The article size is 178 thousand bytes, which I would think is too much for an article. PrathuCoder (talk) 14:47, 10 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I am especially referring to the content which is not about the article itself such as the future dynasties and rulers. The article about Ancient Egypt which is an FA-class article has a similar size of 144 thousand bytes. PrathuCoder (talk) 14:51, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The readable prose size is currently 73kb, which is not overly long per WP:TOOBIG, so I would avoid fixating on length, and focusing on what is due. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:05, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks for the info. PrathuCoder (talk) 15:03, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Too many Primary sources
This article contains too many primary sources and should require more secondary sources. The same issue is pointed out in Page Issues. PrathuCoder (talk) 12:46, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Rulers
Should the rulers in this article follow the numbering or use the suffix "the Great". The article previously had inconsistent use of this with Darius I and Xerxes I in some places and Darius the Great and Xerxes the Great in some places. I have fixed this by replacing both with Darius I and Xerxes I in all places. Should they have the suffix "the Great" in brackets? Or should they follow a naming policy such as Darius I the Great? Also, in many places the rulers have been referred to without numbering, causing confusion. Should the numbering be added? PrathuCoder (talk) 15:03, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Another problem is that Cyrus the Great has been referred as the founder of the empire, where as Achaemenes is said to be the first ruler. PrathuCoder (talk) 15:06, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia generally prefers ruler numbers and avoids epithets such as 'the great' unless they are overwhelmingly the common name for the ruler. Cyrus the Great is referred to as the founder because he is the one that "overthrew, in turn, the Median, Lydian, and Neo-Babylonian Empires" and created a united empire from previously separate domains. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:15, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info, as I said I replaced the great with number for Darius I and Xerxes I. Note that I left Cyrus the Great as that is very common name for him. PrathuCoder (talk) 11:13, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * In the history section of the article, some paragraphs discussing about only 1 ruler do not have number nor epithets. Should this be fixed? Or is it ok for it continue as it is? PrathuCoder (talk) 11:15, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * If the ruler is the only one of their name, or if the context makes it totally unambiguous which individual of that name it is, numbers seems unnecessary. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:40, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * No, in cases such as Darius, Xerxes and Artaxerxes, I have seen this a number of times. And sometimes in these cases, the ruler's number is not specified, making it quite confusing for the reader. In even more extreme cases which I have found in the Government and Culture sections, there is also no way to know which ruler number. PrathuCoder (talk) 11:45, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Possible References
Hello, since this article contains a lot of primary sources and uncited information, I am creating this topic to include a list of possible references. If anybody finds it as reliable, they can post it and cite it in the page. Also, feel free to add any books or sources that you find on the internet by editing this page. Here is the list I have found:

Websites:


 * 1) The Achaemenid Empire | World Civilization (lumenlearning.com)
 * 2) Achaemenid dynasty (Egypt) | History & Persian conquest | Britannica
 * 3) Achaemenian Dynasty | Definition, Achievements, & Facts | Britannica
 * 4) The Achaemenid Empire in South Asia and Recent Excavations in Akra in Northwest Pakistan (brynmawr.edu)
 * 5) (PDF) Connectivity and Communication in the Achaemenid Empire (researchgate.net) (Note that this PDF consists of a number of citations itself which could be useful.
 * 6) Achaemenid Empire | Dynasty History, Region & Timeline | Study.com

Books:


 * 1) https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/A_Companion_to_the_Achaemenid_Persian_Em/qZA7EAAAQBAJ
 * 2) https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/Ancient_Persia/__xGAgAAQBAJ

PrathuCoder (talk) 12:25, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Could someone reformat the article?
The text should be divided into more chapters and there maybe should be less of it in general. Some of it seems to belong in other articles (is this really the place to go into detail about the story of the tomb of Kyros and Alexander?). I'm not knowledgeable enough to do it.

I came here for an overview of why they declined. There's a very long retelling of the countless rebellions, palace coups, civil wars, without much overview or conclusion offered. So was it like a time of troubles? Did it contribute to the decline? Seems to lose forest for the trees a bit.

For example, this is what ChatGPT gave for reasons for decline. I know 100% half of it is hallucinated or something, but I think it could serve as a good yardstick for an example:

''Overexpansion: The Achaemenid Empire grew too large and too fast, which made it difficult to govern effectively. The empire extended from modern-day Egypt to Central Asia and India, which made it challenging to control and defend its borders.

''Weak rulers: After the death of Cyrus the Great, the Achaemenid Empire experienced a succession of weak rulers who were unable to maintain the empire's power and stability. Many of them were also known for their extravagance and opulence, which drained the empire's resources.

''Economic problems: The Achaemenid Empire relied heavily on tribute from its conquered territories to fund its military campaigns and government operations. However, the empire's economy suffered due to high taxes, corruption, and inflation, which led to widespread poverty and discontent among its subjects.

''Revolts and uprisings: The Achaemenid Empire faced several rebellions and uprisings from various regions, including Egypt, Greece, and Central Asia. These rebellions weakened the empire's hold on its territories and drained its military resources.

''External invasions: The Achaemenid Empire faced several external invasions from various armies, including those of Alexander the Great, who defeated the Persian armies in several battles and conquered the empire in the late 4th century BCE.

In summary, the Achaemenid Empire's fall was a result of a combination of internal and external factors, including overexpansion, weak rulers, economic problems, revolts and uprisings, and external invasions. MrThe1And0nly (talk) 19:17, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Recent edits by
Firstly, you might want to apply WP:BRD instead of edit warring. Secondly, please take a look at WP:NCROY, especially the point number 2: "If there is an overwhelmingly common name, use it: William the Conqueror, John Balliol, Peter the Great, Henry the Fowler, Mary, Queen of Scots, Gustavus Adolphus, Eric of Pomerania, Charlemagne. This is in line with WP:COMMONNAME." (that's the case here ...) and at MOS:PREFIX which says that that kind of honorifics should be included in the infobox and the lead but not mandatory after. ---Wikaviani  (talk) (contribs)  20:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Either "Cyrus the Great" or a plain "Cyrus" is better than "Cyrus II", which is not the common name and is fairly rarely used. Furius (talk) 20:57, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yep, agreed, and same goes for Darius the Great. ---Wikaviani  (talk) (contribs)  22:00, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Image Issue:
The second image in the article shows Crimea not under the control of the Persian empire under Darius the Great. The other map, Map of the expansion process of Achaemenid territories, shows the opposite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1c0:5084:c340:d4ef:ab92:1e79:625b (talk • contribs) 16:18, July 19, 2024 (UTC)