Talk:Acid house/Archive 1

Wrong smiley
The first smiley listed on the page is inaccurate, it's not the original acid house smiley. The original can be seen on the Bomb the Bass album and the Watchmen cover. The eyes are thinner and it has ovals on both sides of the mouth, not semicircles. Guest Account 13:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Genesis P'Orridge?
The following was deleted by 67.180.61.179:


 * When Genesis P-Orridge visited hicago in the late 1980s, he checked out acid house music, thinking at first that "acid" referred to LSD. He brought the sounds back to England and began developing with his band Psychic TV a more psychedelic sounding acid house music, including samples from 1960s exploitation films, from Timothy Leary, etc

The deleter claims that GPO had nothing to do with acid house history. The above is consistent with what I understood about it, and Psychic TV's early acid house albums seem to be recognized as the beginning of the genre. Am I wrong about this? Can we substantiate its origins elsewhere? If this is correct, I think the paragraph should be put back in. --csloat 06:36, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

GPO did have nothing to do with the origination of acid house, is not a part of that genres history, and his music that he describes as acid house is extremely unlike acid house. Psychic TV always was essentially Genesis working with whatever musician friend he had at the time. Here is an interview with his main collaberator of that era, Fred Gianelli, the composer of almost all the "acid house" psychic tv albums:

http://fopi.net/inter/fred.htm

Go down to the question which says "Did Genesis P-Orridge really invent acid house"? That alone doesn't prove that he didn't do it, I just showed it to see why the misconception is widespread. The real proof is just to listen to the many older acid house albums and artist which predate PTV's "acid house" records. Look at artists like DJ Pierre who went under the name Phuture and 808 State, all in england, all earlier. Also look at cybotron and Juan Atkins. &mdash; 15:46, 3 October 2004 (MDT) 68.175.52.134


 * interesting stuff. I think the entry should say at least that GPO claimed to have invented the genre and did put out records that many consider to be -- and in fact were marketed as -- acid house.  That's what I was listening to in the late 80s (in Chicago) and it didn't occur to me or anyone else I knew at the time to question that it was acid house, especially when he had samples on the records of people saying "This is Acid House" and so on.... (and we were well aware of Juan Atkins too at the time).  I mean, it seems pretty nitpicky to claim that is not "really" acid house at that point.  But I'm well aware of stories Genesis' ego and don't doubt that what this guy says in the interview is true.  Even so, I think it's an exaggeration to say he had nothing to do with the genre; and as I recall he really didn't claim to have invented it in the interviews I read (this is back in the 80s; I haven't paid much attention to GPO since then, so he may have made more grandiose claims since), but he did claim to be instrumental in popularizing it in England.  Which does actually make sense; and what was going on in Chicago and Detroit was in the end influenced by its popularity in Europe.  So I think there should be some mention of GPO here, even with a link to the Gianelli interview. &mdash; 03:18, 4 October 2004 (MDT) csloat

"I think the entry should say at least that GPO claimed to have invented the genre and did put out records that many consider to be -- and in fact were marketed as -- acid house."

Noting that GPO claimed to have invented the genre might be a good idea. Its also true that many consider his releases to have been "acid house". However every single person I've ever heard who has believed that was a psychic tv fan who really listened to no other acid house, and most had a false idea of the genre defintion as having to do with sampling instead of the 303 ressonance effect. No serious acid house fan would consider the GPO records to be acid house, even though they were marketed that way. You mention Juan Atkins but even that is somewhat of a mistake insofar as that he is considered "techno" or "detroit techno". The ultamite reality though is that these sub genres are like drug rumours, they are constantly bandied about without regard to a consistant definition (don't get me started on goa trance vs. psytrance.

"Even so, I think it's an exaggeration to say he had nothing to do with the genre" - He obviously had something to do with SOME genre of music, but he certainly didn't invent acid house. In the history of acid house he is certainly not notable insofar as invention or influencing other real acid house artists. He is notable for many other things like inventing industrial music. He might by some stretch be responsible for popularizing acid house in britain, insofar as he claimed what he made was acid house and caused fans to explore real acid house. Nevertheless, a major force in acid house existing in england at about the same time 808 State. &mdash; 01:25, 19 October 2004 (MDT) 67.180.61.179


 * In the GPO interview in the film Better Living Through Circuitry, no such claim of inventing acid house is made. Rather, he says he was in a record store where they had acid house records from Chicago, and he became enamored of the sound and had an epiphany about the tempo being crucial to inducing a higher state of consciousness, and immediately sought to incorporate that aspect, and other hallmarks of the sound, into his own music. I don't know if this conflicts with other claims. &mdash; mjb 14:41, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Seriously now. I cannot believe that GPO is even mentioned. There is a whole paragraph dedicated to his "discovery" that should go. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjmacphee (talk • contribs) 22:31, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Drug connections, and which drugs?
IIRC, in the book Ecstasy: Dance Trance and Transformation, one of the Phuture members a knowledgable figure reveals that the rumors that acid house was about sample-biting or that it originally had nothing to do with LSD are entirely false -- the acid in acid house was always about acid, period. If anyone has access to this literature, please update this article accordingly. &mdash; mjb 14:41, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * The connection between acid house and ecstasy are well-documented and indisputable. There are no such connections specifically to LSD, however. LSD was mostly a baby-boomer drug associated with 1960s psychedelia and acid rock; its use declined since the 1970s, due to difficulties in obtaining the precursors and the rising popularity of alternative drugs, and MDMA/ecstasy was the in drug when acid house came about. The word acid was most probably added by a lazy journalist unaware of current trends in recreational drug use. This has been mentioned in a number of books on the history of dance music, including Sheryl Garratt's "Adventures in Wonderland". Acb 13:54, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * You mean, it was coined for a drug use, even if the type of drug was wrong? --201.19.190.191 16:51, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Most probably, yes.

In the UK LSD was a very popular drug (more so than Ecstacy in the 87-88 period) I was there so I know, Smiley's, Purple Om's, and various other pictures were used on the tabs (small squares of paper impregnated with LSD) and on flyers etc.

But true Acid House as defined by the likes of Phuture, Armando et al does not rely on sampling other records (there goes the "Acid burn" theory) and the term refers to the liquid, spiky resonant sound produced by the TB-303, which does make a lot of sense if you think about it. A lot of UK acts jumped on the bandwagon with sampling and "cut up" music (as it is correctly known) was bandied by know nothing journalists as Acid House. Early examples of authentic UK Acid House are "Stakker" and their track "Humanoid" and "This ain't Chicago" with their track "Ride the Rhythm" there were a few others too, but most of the UK stuff was just "cut up" and seldom contained any 303 at all. Like most genre's of music though the term was bastardised and Acid House became the name for any moderately paced dance track between 1988-1989.

Another popular (and equally false) myth is that Section 25 created the first Acid House track, but anyone familiar with that track would agree it IS NOT Acid House.


 * Another way to think about it: if LSD was the acid-house drug of choice, acid house would sound a lot less repetitive and a lot more spaced out. Acb 23:05, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * That is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. - mjb 02:47, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

OK, I finally found the source I was thinking of. This appeared in Ecstasy: Dance, Trance & Transformation by Nicholas Saunders with Rick Doblin (1996), but it actually predates that. It was apparently published in an essay on Saunders's ecstasy.org site (which I host!) for a time, but it originally appeared in a 1991 essay published in the Libertarian newsletter Political Notes (ISSN 02677059), issue 55 (ISBN 1856370399). The author is Paul Staines, and the article is Acid House Parties Against the Lifestyle Police and the Safety Nazis:

''The origin of the term Acid House is the subject of some debate. It was claimed in the debate in the House of Commons, as well as endless articles in the music press, that contrary to popular belief Acid House Parties did not derive their name from the colloquial term for the hallucinogenic drug LSD.''

The term acid, it was claimed, comes from the streets of Chicago, where it is a slang word meaning to steal, and acid music takes its name from the fact that an acid music track will include samples of music stolen from other recordings and then mixed in to form an end product.

''Since this particular musical style grew out of the Chicago House sound it was christened Acid House. That at least is what it says in Hansard and you can't get much more official than that can you?''

I know this to be completely untrue because I made up this explanation at a press conference held to launch the Freedom to Party Campaign at the Conservative Party conference in October 1989.

''I was attempting to desperately play down the drug aspect in a forlorn attempt to discourage anti-party legislation, reasoning that the British public might accept massive noisy parties, but thousands of teenagers on drugs were definitely not acceptable. (This, incidentally, is the most successful lie I have ever told.''

Japanese music journalists have solemnly repeated it to me in the course of interviews and from MTV to ITN it has been broadcast as a fact.

Only once was I caught out, when at a seminar held at the DMC World Disc Jockey Mixing Championships, a DJ from Chicago stood up and told the 1,000 or so people in the hall that I was talkin' a complete load of fuckin' bullshit - which I was.

''This proves that if you tell a lie often enough people will believe it - except when they know it's complete bullshit. Despite my best efforts the Safety Nazis simply changed their reasons for wanting to ban the parties.''

They wanted them banned not because they were party pooping killjoys, worried about drugs, but because they were concerned about the physical safety of party-goers at unlicensed venues!

The Safety Nazis outwitted my best lie by changing their tactics.

''The parties got their name from the widespread use of the drug LSD (acid) at the parties in the early days. The whole scene revolved around drugs, anybody who knows anything about it will tell you this, unless you are a journalist or a policeman.''

So there you go. Now, having cited that, I will concede that as far as I know, as the acid house scene evolved into the rave scene in the UK, it became primarily about Ecstasy use above all others. Incidentally, I've seen the sample-biting and Genesis P. Orridge stories repeated in works published as recently as 2002! I will work on putting all of the conflicting info into the article. &mdash; mjb 17:09, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Another interesting factoid: The Oxford Dictionary of New Words (Knowles, Elizabeth [ed], Elliott, Elizabeth [ed]. Second Edition, Oxford University Press, 1997. ISBN 0198631529.), a publication that is meant to complement but not extend the Oxford English Dictionary, has been promulgating the bogus stories as well:

"''acid house" "noun (Music) (Youth Culture)" "A style of popular music with a fast beat, a spare, mesmeric, synthesized sound, few (if any) vocals, and a distinctive gurgling bass; in the UK, a youth cult surrounding this music and associated in the public mind with smiley badges, drug-taking, and extremely large parties known as acid house parties. Sometimes abbreviated to acid (also written acieeed or aciiied, especially when used as a kind of interjection)." "Etymology: The word acid here is probably taken from the record Acid Trax by Phuture (in Chicago slang, acid burning is a term for stealing and this type of music relies heavily on sampling, or stealing from other tracks); a popular theory that it is a reference to the drug LSD is denied by its followers (but compare acid rock, a sixties psychedelic rock craze, which certainly was). House is an abbreviated form of Warehouse: see house."

Whee! &mdash; mjb 05:53, 20 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Garratt and/or other texts claim that the "'acid (burn)' means 'to lift samples'" claim was a myth made up to divert attention from the drug factor.
 * Also, AFAIK, Ecstasy was widely available since the early 1980s, and was used in the scene before acid house became popular. (By Tony Wilson's account in his novelisation of 24 Hour Party People, the Happy Mondays had access to substantial supplies of the stuff in the mid-80s, before the Second Summer of Love.) So I'd be skeptical of any claims that Ecstasy was not a significant part of the acid house scene during the 1980s. Acb 08:35, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I doubt Paul Staines' story, because I was in Chicago in the late 1980s and had heard well before October 1989 the claim that acid had something to do with sampling. It still could be bullshit but there is a reference to that explanation in a Simon Frith article in May 1989 so at the very least Paul had his dates wrong. But he is a blowhard (as is Mr. P'Orridge) so I'm not sure if we'll ever get the real story out of one of them, lol... It seems likely that someone actually did use the term acid in this way though it probably was not nearly as widespread slang as the story makes it seem. But I don't buy the Paul Staines story. The other issue raised here about whether acid or ecstasy was more basic to the scene -- both were pretty common, at least in 87-89 in the US; LSD did not disappear after the 1970s as another poster made it seem. Ecstasy was available but not quite as well known until the mid-late 1980s when it became a key staple of the club scene.--csloat 11:40, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, as of today I have incorporated most of the references discussed above into the article, and have rewritten the etymology section to be more thorough and to more carefully present the competing claims as being mostly unverified. I also gave the etymology section a heading, which triggered the generation of a table of contents. The quoted material in the references section could stand to be worked into the body of the article, but it must remain clear that absolutely none of it is definitive, and some of it is actually just demonstrating how earlier, unverified claims are being reported as fact in what little literature has been published on acid house. Another option might be to move the quotations to Wikisource. I'm not sure what Wikisource is really for, though. Can we put fair-use citations there, or must everything there be a complete, original work? &mdash; mjb 07:19, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I've reformatted and expanded the references today. Regarding fair-use quotations, they should be fine as-is. I am taking my cue from the references in the Intelligent Design article. &mdash; mjb 12:24, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

New Order
I removed New Order from the list of notable acid house artists. The example given, Technique, was mainly a rock album. Of its three housey tracks, "Fine Time", "Round & Round", and "Dream Attack", only "Fine Time" exhibits acid house influences. It's rather generous to say that that one track is squarely acid house, and it's quite a stretch to say the band is an acid house group. I've kept up with them fairly well, and can't think of any examples of later releases, aside from commissioned remixes by other artists, that are acid anything. &mdash; mjb 00:00, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Phuture
Because the author did not cite sources, and because "Cocaine" was not the B-side of any release of "Acid Tracks", and because there isn't any evidence to support the allegation that "Cocaine", which has very almost no lyrical content, is anti-drug, I removed this dubious statement:


 * Phuture, creators of the first Chicago Acid House single (Acid Tracks), claim that the title was not intended to celebrate LSD, and they point to the B-side on "Acid Tracks" was "Cocaine", a very anti-drug song.

&mdash;mjb 01:58, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Picture
Is this a joke? Does it have anything to do with the article? It should probably be removed. I'd do it myself, but better to consult with you people. Besides, I wouldn't actually know how to remove it.
 * I think a yellow smiley is ok as a pic for this article but at least with a short explanation that describes the symbol as synonymous with acid house in the late 1980s and early 1990s.-csloat 03:17, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

The B Side of Acid Trax on Trax Records was "Your Only Friend", an anti-cocaine song (the lyrics are "I can make you cry for me, die for me, kill for me, steal for me, and in the end i'll be your only friend".

The term "acid house" was invented by Trax Records owener Larry Sherman after he heard "Your Only Friend", which reminded him of The Doors and his time in Vietnam taking acid...he coined the phrase Acid House to describe the record's psychedelic feel.


 * If the smiley is to stay, it needs an explanatory caption. Without one, it looks irrelevant. Seahen 17:46, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I got the caption to show up. Whoever put up the picture forgot to put thumb in the code.  Caesar

Notable acid house artists
"superman" by Psychic TV was released in 1988 and not 1985. The date is clearly marked on the label of the record. I have therefore changed this and removed the "first" in the previous version.

I think it is also worth noting that The Shamen, when they formed in 1986, were an indie band with psychedelic influences, rather than acid house. Their first LP "Drop" is guitar based, etc.

John Eden 13:33, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

From 1986 through 1991 there were waves of what I would call "mechanized" house music coming out. Chicago and UK acid house were part of that, but so was Detroit techno (during that period, at least, even though it had started earlier), New Beat, Bleep, and various one-off clicky, buzzy, trancey, housey tracks by different artists in the UK and Europe. To categorize all of these as "acid house", even if they work well alongside acid house records in a DJ set, is IMHO an error and a disservice. Therefore, in the Notable artists section, I feel it's necessary to drop references to artists like Adamski, who was included on the basis of "Killer". I have every version of that track, and none of them are what I would call acid house. Mechanical, almost techno, yes… but not acid house, per se. I've gone ahead and removed him from the list.

Similarly, every artist that ever used a 303 or was influenced by acid house is not necessarily a notable acid house artist. I can think of Aphex Twin records that use 303s, but I'm having trouble thinking of any that I would lump in with "Acid Trax". In the future, I suggest people be careful to provide justification for artists they add to the list. We've already started down that road by mentioning specific tracks and releases. Thanks. —mjb 20:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I just removed Egebamyasi, Ceephax Acid Crew and Alabama 3 (who aren't acid house at all). Not anything against these particular acts in particular, but unless they're a household name like Phuture i just wouldn't call them notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.130.77 (talk • contribs) 05:45, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Ceephax Acid Crew is the acid master. 303 genius. He's famous too, so he belongs in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by New Sonic Hedgehog (talk • contribs) 07:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Egebamyasi (Mr. Egg) was added to the list again yesterday. I removed the link. There is no evidence this artist was ever notable. If he was, he should have no trouble convincing a music journalist to correct the error in a reliable publication. Really, the link appears to be self-promotion by this guy who believes he has been wrongly overlooked as the true inventor of acid house. Anyone besides Mr. Egg/Egebamyasi himself care to comment one way or the other? Thanks. —mjb 04:04, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. I've also added a citation needed to the claim in the Mr Egg article that he is "credited as being one of the founding fathers of Acid House music". Jvhertum 09:40, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

all i can say is there are a lot of artist's& track's you really have to check out.did't think i would see this in I'm my lifetime,it was done with the blues when all of a sudden there was rock&roll you know what I'm talking about. some of these artist lost there dream's some where stolen but until my die day i will shout there name's laud,they fueld my dream's.this is the real acid house


 * Z-Factor-Fantasy /est 1984
 * Le' Noiz-I'm Scared/est 1985
 * Chip E.-M.B. Dance /started spinning records in 1982, by 1984
 * Doctor Derelict -Under Cover/est 1984
 * Farley "Jackmaster" Funk-Farley Knows House/Known as Farley Keith or Farley Funkin' Keith until 1984
 * Jesse Saunders-On & On/est 1984
 * Quest (9)-Mind Games/est 1985
 * Chip E.-Time To Jack/In 1985 Street Mix magazine declared Chip E. as the "Godfather of House Music"
 * It, The-Donnie/Real Name's Larry Heard, Harry Dennis-est 1986
 * Z-Factor-I Am The DJ/1984
 * Jesse Saunders-Funk You Up/1984
 * Jackmaster Dick-Sensuous Woman Goes Disco/1985
 * Virgo-R U Hot Enough/Members:Adonis, Marshall Jefferson, Vince Lawrence est 1986
 * Master C & J-Dub Love/1986
 * Adonis-We're Rocking Down The House/1986
 * E.S.P.-It's You/1986
 * Jungle Wonz Real Name Marshall Jefferson-The Jungle/1986
 * Adonis-No Way Back
 * Fast Eddie-Jack The House
 * MK II	Dstm
 * Willie Wonka	Blow
 * 2 House People	Move My Body
 * Terry Housemaster Baldwin*	House Master
 * Pleasure Zone	Hold These Nuts
 * Fingers Inc.	Mysteries Of Love
 * Risque III	Essence Of A Dream
 * Mr. Fingers	Can You Feel It
 * Risqué Rhythm Team	The Jacking Zone
 * Fingers Inc.	You're Mine
 * Phuture	Your Only Friend
 * Farley "Jackmaster" Funk	It's U
 * Bad Boy Bill	Jack It All Night Long
 * Night Writers, The	Let The Music Use You
 * Hercules	Lost In The Groove
 * Pleasure Zone	Fantasy
 * Ralphi Rosario	You Used To Hold Me
 * Liz Torres	What You Make
 * Sweet D	Thank Ya
 * Marshall Jefferson	Move Your Body
 * Master C & J	Face It
 * On The House	Give Me Back The Love
 * Mario Diaz	Fusion Dance
 * Risque III	More Than Justa Dance
 * Mr. Fingers	For So Long
 * Adonis	Do It Properly
 * Phortune	String Free
 * Children, The	Freedom
 * Jerry McAllister*	What I Do
 * Fingers Inc.	Distant Planet
 * Db (2)	I Have A Dream
 * Rocky Jones	Choice Of A New Generation
 * Risse	House Train
 * M. Doc	It's Percussion
 * Jamie Principle	Baby Wants To Ride
 * Fast Eddie*	Can You Still Dance
 * Nitro Deluxe	Let’s Get Brutal
 * Arnold Jarvis	Take Some Time Out
 * Mr. Fingers	Amnesia
 * Sterling Void	Runaway
 * Joe Smooth	Promised Land
 * Xperiment	Kahn Evil # 10
 * Chicago Music Syndrome	Work It
 * Subject	The Magic, The Moment
 * Reese	Just Want Another Chance
 * Phase II	Mystery
 * Castle Beat, The	Today Tomorrow Forever
 * Jump St. Man	B-Cause
 * Keynotes	Let's Let's Dance
 * Fast Eddie*	Acid Thunder
 * Touch	Without You
 * Todd Terry	Bango (To The Batmobile)
 * Masters At Work (2)	Alright Alright
 * Blaze	Whatcha Gonna Do
 * Break Boys, The	And The Break Goes On
 * O.N.I.T. (Oh No, It's Them!)	We're Out Of Control
 * Trak This	I'm Happy
 * Masters At Work (2)	Dum Dum Cry
 * Radio Free	All You Can Do Is Dance
 * Bou Khan	Magic
 * Park Avenue	Don't Turn Your Love
 * Power, Wonder & Love	Afro Acid
 * Channel One	Technicolor
 * Eddie "Flashin" Fowlkes*	Goodbye Kiss
 * Rhythim Is Rhythim	Kaos
 * Model 500	Sound Of Stereo
 * Kevin Saunderson	Force Field
 * Model 500	No UFO's
 * Rhythim Is Rhythim	Strings Of Life
 * Kevin Saunderson	The Groove That Won't Stop
 * Mayday	Sinister
 * Model 500 Off To Battle
 * Mike Dunn Personal Problems
 * Mayday	Wiggin
 * Rhythim Is Rhythim	The Dance
 * Kevin Saunderson	Bounce Your Body To The Box
 * House Hustlers	Show You How To Jack
 * Bang The Party	Glad All Over
 * T-Coy	Carino....u k
 * Master E	Page 67
 * Julian Jonah	Jealousy & Lies....u k
 * Rio Rhythm Band	Cuban Jackin
 * Colm III	Xmas Trees
 * Phuture	The Creator
 * Armando	Downfall
 * Gentry Ice	Do You Wanna Jack
 * Jack Frost	Shout
 * Adonis	The Poke
 * Mike Dunn	Face The Nation
 * Doctor Derelict	That Shit's Wild
 * Hula	Hot Hands
 * Armando	Confusion
 * Pierre's Pfantasy Club	Mystery Girl
 * Pierre's Pfantasy Club	Dream Girl
 * Phortune	Can U Feel The Bass
 * DJ Pierre	Box Energy
 * Armando	1-5

...this was our escape in the early to mid 80's.as a young black man who grew up in a northern u.k ghetto my focus was on all that was funky black & electric i never herd of Psychic TV indi rock was for whites i'm sorry to say... if you could of seen the way we danced to acid house and other forms of electric funk you would understand my emotions

a guy called gerald Greal simsound 18:08, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Proper name capitalization?
Shouldn't House be capitalized in this case, since Acid House is a proper name? --Peaceduck


 * The more they're written about, the more music genres tend to drop their proper-name status. Because writers generally don't capitalize it anymore, I wouldn't capitalize house. I'm leaning toward not capitalizing acid house, either. The flash-in-the-pan style Balearic Beat is still capitalized, but house, acid house, techno, trance, hip hop, and others generally aren't. I'd be interested to hear from authors and editors of books and magazines on the subject. —mjb 20:03, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

AFX?
Why is Richard D. James not mentioned in here anywhere?


 * Vibert but no RDJ. Hmm... 80.47.116.222 18:33, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe because he's not an acid house artist? What are some Aphex Twin acid house records? I can only think of one that's even close: his remix of Baby Ford's "Normal". Even that, though, is more of an over-the-top homage to acid and breaks, not really squarely in any genre. —mjb 19:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I am no expert, but what about his Analogue Bubblebath and Analord series (mainly under the AFX pseudonym)? - Hadakan (147.32.115.209 09:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC))

Disgrace to LSD
Acid house music is a disgrace to the name of LSD —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.161.18.229 (talk) 08:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

origin of the term Acid House
I read on discogs, while creating the article for Tune In (Turn On The Acid House) that the album was the first time the term "acid house" was used, can someone that knows more about this confirm or deny? -- Alex Ov  Shaolin  00:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. Genesis himself has said that he heard the term used to refer to Chicago house music before he borrowed it.  When did that record come out? csloat 01:05, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

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It looks like both of the above have been taken care of. —mjb 04:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Why then are they up for dispute... yet again?? Johnny &quot;ThunderPeel2001&quot; Walker 14:12, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Not sure. I'm guessing it's because the bot is now looking for the rationale to be entered in separate fair-use templates for each article that uses the image; the article name needs to be mentioned in an Article field in each template. Before yesterday, the image page had just one template with no Article field, and didn't even mention the acid house article. I think we've got it covered now though. The image is now only used in the acid house article, and the template mentions the article name in the right field. —mjb 23:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot 23:59, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * See above. —mjb 23:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

First 303 in dance music
In Modulations, Peter Shapiro may have written that Phuture was the first to use a 303 in dance music, but if he did write that, or if he echoed someone else's claim to that effect, then he was wrong. Counterexamples include:
 * Koto - "Chinese Revenge" (1983)
 * Alexander Robotnick - "Problèmes d'Amour" (1983)
 * Carlos Peron feat. Christian Lunch - "Nothing Is True" (1984)

I haven't seen the book, but overall I'm guessing it's a fairly reliable source; it just got this one thing wrong. Ideally we would find a conflicting reference and then just say there are conflicting accounts, but it's a hard thing to search for. —mjb (talk) 02:43, 15 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Apart from this, I was under the impression that Sleezy D's 1986 Trax Records release I've Lost Control was widely considered the first Acid House track. To add support to this there is an unsourced interview extract on discogs where Marshal Jefferson and Adonis discuss the track:

''"I was there in the studio for the recordings of Sleezy D.'s - "I've Lost Control", claims Adonis, reminding his early times as a producer. "Marshall was working on a track called "I've Lost Control". He had the hook, and the drums, and then he let me listen to it, and I said it wouldn't make me loose control - this is when I told him there was a need to put something new on there, something no one had ever heard - something that would make me loose control, and others too." Adonis suggested almost instantly: "Let's put the TB-303 in there!" Then the version came out as a real thunder! After hearing few more questions, Adonis concluded as his personal feedback: "Check out the "I've Lost Control" Space Mix on side A; that was my idea to put the TB 303 on there". Indeed the acid basslines of the Space Side made by Adonis gave "I've Lost Control" a very intense, hypnotic atmosphere. Added to the fine drum lines by Marshall Jefferson and the dark, distorted vocals by Sleezy D., it had a massive impact on the dancefloors. About the curse of the uprising Acid House scene, Adonis said: "I was the one the introduced Marshall Jefferson to the TB303. By the time he met Spanky and DJ Pierre, he had already knew the Acid sound because I'm the one who taught him all about". On that matter, Marshall Jefferson replied: "Yes, Adonis introduced me to the TB 303 (the bassline simulator responsible for the acid sound). I had no idea how to program it though", that's why "I've Lost Control"'s basslines were made by Adonis''.


 * Also, where does Mr Fingers track Washing Machine fit in? There have been suggestions that the bassline is generated using a 303, it sounds unlike any house release in 1986 but that appears to be where it has been placed, definition wise, but isn't it closer in style to acid house or even techno - sounding like a precursor to the first Rhythim Is Rhythim release. Semitransgenic (talk) 15:30, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Alexander Robotnik interviewSemitransgenic (talk) 10:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

UK: The Northern Scene. Berlin & Frankfurt.
No mention? Semitransgenic (talk) 15:41, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Just came across this.Semitransgenic (talk) 17:25, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

An unreliable source
The mini coffee table book Defining Moments in Music has a page about acid house. It's a one-paragraph summary of an older version of the Wikipedia article. Its topics are even in the same order! So in case anyone's thinking of using it as a source, you probably shouldn't. —mjb (talk) 08:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Oakenfold, Rampling, Ibiza
There's widely repeated folklore that in 1987, Paul Oakenfold and Danny Rampling went to Ibiza, took ecstasy, heard acid house and/or Balearic Beat, and came back to introduce the style(s) to the UK club scene. There was a recent article in Mixmag that says this is just a myth, and I haven't seen any sources that quote Oakenfold or Rampling themselves on the matter. Even if the story is true, the WP:BLP policy forbids us from saying that these living people took drugs and did other things that aren't verified by reliable sources. —mjb (talk) 15:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Citations needed?
Citations needed in the first section to prove that acid house was more minimal and trancy than vocal house, or that it featured more pounding rhythms than pop? Christ! Just listen to the bloody music! If I write a book in which I venture an opinion that acid house was a softer, less repetitive sound than pop and someone references it here to support text on this page then does that makes it correct, because they have provided a citation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.182.112 (talk) 17:17, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

US newspaper articles from 1988
I've been sitting on a small collection of US newspaper articles from mid/late 1988, found via a NewsBank InfoWeb search for "acid house" at a public library. Someone needs to go through the articles and comb them for facts to add to this article. I thought I'd have time to do it, but several years have elapsed and I'm constantly distracted, so I would rather hand them off to someone else. Let me know if you're interested, and I'll send you a link to a .zip of the files. —mjb (talk) 22:02, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * i would be interested in seeing this stuff for sure, but like you, don't have much time to make use of it at the moment. Semitransgenic (talk) 15:44, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Hardfloor?
Why no mention of Hardfloor in this article. Their 1992 single Acperience and subsequent work has reinvigorated Acid House during the 1990's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.151.143.115 (talk) 23:27, 6 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it's more generally that we don't have any coverage beyond the original US & UK scenes that were "pure" acid house in its original incarnations.
 * We really should mention the embrace, by producers working primarily in other genres, of the dominant TB-303 "acid" sound of acid house. Hardfloor was more in this category, making a hybrid sound that was more techno and trance than acid house, per se. They're certainly notable, just not as strictly acid house artists.
 * The only notables I can think of who really kept a relatively pure acid house torch alive were the Phuture crew, Green Velvet, and Aphrohead, mostly in the mid-'90s, and even then they were mixing it with a dense, higher-tempo "hard house" sound bordering on techno. It wasn't until more around the mid/late 2000s that there was a revival of a much less diluted and much more retro acid house vibe, but it's way underground, with no notable artists, even though Hardfloor participated.
 * The problem is that if we are to mention them, we need reliable sources covering these developments... —mjb (talk) 08:26, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the replies. I know Hardfloor came later than the original 85-89 Acid period and have more of a Techno-y style to them. However I mentioned them due to a lot of their work still retaining much of the old-skool Acid sound in it - especially their X-Mix 'Jack in the Box' comp and 'All Targets Down' album (with collaborations from Phuture) they did in '98. Didn't wan't to add something which wasn't right to the proper Wiki page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.152.245.252 (talk) 11:42, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, I missed those examples in my crate digging...I have only very old and very new Hardfloor. Anyway, like I said, I think we do need to add something about acid house's legacy and revivals. It's just going to require some research. —mjb (talk) 11:50, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Opening Sentence
The opening sentence is currently nonsense. "Acid house is a sub-genre of house music that emphasizes a repetitive, hypnotic and trance-like style, often with samples or spoken lines instead of lyrics." Lots of forms of House music, techno music, and Electronic Dance Music (EDM) in general "eemphasizes a repetitive, hypnotic and trance-like style," this is not what defines Acid House - it is the unique sound of the Roland 303 drum machine that is Acid Houses defining feature. This should be stated in the opening sentence. Again many forms techno, house and EDM records feature "samples or spoken lines instead of lyrics." when as a mater of fact many of the original Acid house records did feature singing Acid Trax the Bug, Dream Girl to name but three.

To summarize the current opening sentence appears to be written by someone who doesn't appear to know what acid house is and has merely described some common features often found in electronic dance music records in general. I did correct this but someone changed it back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.55.11.210 (talk) 00:54, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for writing.
 * Well, I disagree about the 303. It's important, and became way more important in '90s techno & trance, but it was not omnipresent in acid house. There's tons of acid house (pre-'90s) which doesn't use a Roland TB-303, or even a 303-like sound. In fact, elsewhere in the article, you removed all mention of a great 303-free example: "I've Lost Control". (Edit: my bad; I was thinking of the Justin Strauss remix of "Time Marches On", and several other tracks which all use vaguely 303-like sounds.)
 * Of course, the 303 was often favored by Chicago producers, but hardly anyone in the UK, where the scene was concentrated, could get their hands on the device, apparently, so they used other synths or didn't even bother trying. They just focused on other aspects that made acid house unlike regular house. The Brits also loved dropped-in samples, way more than the Americans. It was overall just lighter, clubbier, poppier music, more fun and less serious. I'm sure "Acid Trax" and many other 303-based tracks were played there by DJs, but when they made their own productions, they didn't copy its sound; instead they produced "We Call It Acieed" and the Jack the Tab LP, and never strayed too far from those templates.
 * I understand your concern about the defining features not really being unique to acid house. But the trends that made acid house "acid" were that those features were in much greater abundance than in regular house. There was way more of a "repetitive, hypnotic and trance-like style, often with samples or spoken lines instead of lyrics" than was typical in all the other house music of the 1980s. I'm sure there are exceptions, but do you really dispute the generality?
 * Anyway, I think we can compromise on this. The 303 probably should be mentioned, since its presence almost guarantees that it's acid house, and since in the '90s and beyond there's very little non-303-based "acid" anything... but we shouldn't suggest that the 303 is the only thing that sets all acid house apart from other forms of house (or any other music of that era), nor should we imply that it's necessary to have a 303 in order for music to be acid house. (Edit: I'll concede on this.)
 * How about your other edits? All of them were contentious:
 * You replaced Acid house spread to the United Kingdom and continental Europe with "Acid house" also become a generic term for the dance music scene in the United Kingdom. That seems rather dismissive, as if their scene and its musical product isn't "real" acid house at all, and as if they weren't exposed to American acid house, which couldn't be further from the truth. It wasn't a generic term for the entire dance scene of the day; certainly there were other scenes going on in the UK in the late '80s, like Northern Soul/rare groove, baggy/Madchester, Balearic, Acid Jazz, and imported genres were huge as well, like house, techno, Italodance, New Beat, and nameless dance pop... And why are you excluding Europe? Acid house was made by a handful of non-UK producers, and certainly was being heard in clubs and radio in Germany, Belgium, etc.; this is reported in documentaries and is evident in the music coming out of those regional scenes.
 * You didn't explain why you hacked out the mention of "Acid Trax" not being released on wax until 1987, after "I've Lost Control" (1986), and it being impossible to know which track was created first. The source for this was cited, along with a quote, and you removed the citation in such a way that it screwed up the formatting and forced a bot to come along and fix it as best it could. You seem to be wanting the reader to assume "Acid Trax" was unquestionably the absolute point of origin of the genre. Perhaps it was, but given that it's not a documented certainty, we owe it to the reader to acknowledge the various plausible theories that are documented, just like we do for the history of the term acid house.
 * This isn't a major concern, but you replaced the acid house and later rave scenes with what would later be know [sic] as as the rave scene. Everything I've seen and read suggests that early on, this particular British club, warehouse, and outdoor dance party scene was called acid house, and at some point later it was only being called rave. There was a period of time where either word could be used. Rather than draw lines, I wanted to say that the music was being played in this scene, no matter what its name was. Your typo aside, I don't think your wording is any better. It's just different. Neither version is ideal, though.
 * —mjb (talk) 04:34, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi, the 303, when used to produce a modulated (squelching) bass sound through the use of its frequency and resonance controls, simply IS the one thing that sets all acid house apart from other forms of house. ''There was way more of a "repetitive, hypnotic and trance-like style, often with samples or spoken lines instead of lyrics" than was typical in all the other house music of the 1980s. I'm sure there are exceptions, but do you really dispute the generality?'' Yes I do. Check out for instance Chicago Trax volume 1 (the first house music compilation released in Europe). Almost every track could be described as "repetitive, hypnotic and trance-like style, often with samples or spoken lines instead of lyrics" while only two (Washing Machine & Can You Feel it, both by Mr Fingers could possibly be called acid house).
 * Hmm, well, a lot of the squelchy basslines you attribute to the TB-303 are made by the MC-202 or another synth. For example, "Washing Machine"—yes, that's probably acid house, but its bassline was made with a Juno 6. The deep house classic "Can You Feel It" was a staple at acid house parties, but whether it is acid house is debatable. Either way, its bassline is made with a Jupiter 6, not a 303. (Ref for both: .) So, when you exalt the 303, you're oversimplifying. Every modulated-synth-bass-as-lead is not necessarily a 303; a variety of synths are used to make the "squelchy" sounds.
 * I'm not going to insist that there are acid house tracks which don't contain a 303 or 303-like sounds at all; after going through my collection again, I found that all the "non-303" tracks that I was thinking of do have vaguely 303-like synths in them. One I'm on the fence about is the hit Les Adams remix of "This Is Acid", which despite its lyrics, it's more of a mash-up of acid-free house styles.
 * Anyway, after going through my collection again, I'll concede on the 303, or 303-like sound, being a crucial element of acid house. But I stand by my assertion that there are certain aspects of house that tend to be emphasized in acid house. Or at least, in the U.S. especially, producers tended to favor adding the 303 (or whatever) only to a certain style of house—the stark, minimal, ultra-repetitive "jack tracks"—as opposed to the warmer, denser, more melodic house.
 * For example, try Armando's "Land of Confusion". If you took the 303 out of that track, maybe you wouldn't call it acid, but you'd have something more like "House Nation": way, way more repetitive and spoken-word-based, and less melodic than ordinary house tends to be. That doesn't mean "House Nation" is acid house. It just means the 303 is arguably acid house's defining trend, but not the only trend worth mentioning.

[re acid house being a generic term] I was in London (still am) at the time, both clubbing, listening to the radio and buying records. There was definitely a very clear semiotic distinction between the specific house music sub gender acid house* (house tracks with the squelching 303 bass, so called because Acid Trax was the first track to use this style (or at least it appeared to be the case) and the general *acid house* scene which consisted of dancing in warehouse, fields and nightclubs to a sound track consisting predominately of House music (including some *acid house*) plus some disco, Balearic and electronic while under the influence of Ecstasy (MDMA). If you want evidence of this simply go on youtube and watch the footage from *acid house* events such as *Sunrise*, *Back To The Future*, and *Energy*. During a night (and day) at one of these events (or clubs such as Schoom or the Trip) only and handful of the track played during the session would actually be "acid house" records.
 * Right, I fully accept that the acid house club/party scene included a broad music selection which included proper acid house, among other styles. And the article should talk about that. But that's not what you originally wrote, which was that acid house was the name of the one and only dance music scene in the UK. That's what I was responding to. It was really just the name of this one particular corner of the overall meta-scene. It was notable and huge, but not the end-all be-all of dance music in the UK. —mjb (talk) 20:31, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

What about psychedelic music influence?
I had noticed that in psychedelic music article also says that acid house has is a psychedelic electronic music also in detroit techno in fusion genres section I noticed that also says acid house. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laratadelaciudad (talk • contribs) 00:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes that's interesting because Acid House, particularly in the associated clothing fashions, had psychedelic influences and was part of what was termed in the UK "The Second Summer of Love". But does the music alone sound psychedelic? I'm not sure. It's worth discussing. What do other editors think? Using other Wikipedia pages as sources is against Wikipedia guidelines, and I think consensus is that detroit techno incorporated elements of acid house and not vice versa - that's the possible "fusion". Certainly in all the material I have read over the years the original acid house music groups of the late 1980s do not cite detrot techno as a "stylistic origin". Once again, read up about it and report your findings and any interesting links here.

(86.131.95.227 (talk) 00:57, 28 April 2014 (UTC))

I don't believe that a stylistic origin of Acid House is pyschedelic music as the defining sound seems to have been discovered rather by accident and the sound is highly electronic. I do believe that Acid House is a style of psychedelic music however as its arrival tied in and coincided with what has been termed the "Second Summer Of Love". I do not believe that we can actually base a definite statement about this on the word of a 1999 music magazine.

(Etheldavis (talk) 21:45, 1 June 2014 (UTC))

What about Charanjit Singh?
Released in 1982, his album Ten Ragas to a Disco Beat surely must be the first acid house/techno record? http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/apr/10/charanjit-singh-acid-house 85.226.47.4 (talk) 16:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It has nothing to do with techno, except that it's electronic and has a somewhat fast tempo. It vaguely resembles certain types of trance music, but it's not trance. It's similar to acid house, enough to make some bloggers gush over it, but calling Ten Ragas to a Disco Beat an acid house record, or the first acid house record, is just hyperbolic. The first acid house record can't predate house music. It would be like calling "Funky Drummer" the first hip-hop record or Phaedra the first ambient trance record. The first time I heard Klaus Schulze's "Blackdance", I thought "this could come out today on Rephlex and everyone would think it was the latest Aphex Twin release." These kinds of proto-genre examples are common in music. No musical idea is that original.
 * Anyway, all that's not to say the Singh album can't be mentioned. You just need to carefully word it, perhaps with something to the effect of it being "an album of original synthesizer disco music from 1982, made in a style which, upon wider re-release in 2010, prompted some journalists and bloggers to question whether it may be considered an example of acid house." And then make sure the Guardian article is cited; it seems to be the only respectable, non-blog publication which talks about the topic. —mjb (talk) 00:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

What about Ceephax too? This article is biased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.137.156.76 (talk) 19:34, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

what about aphex twin!? analord — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.40.164 (talk) 00:45, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Mentioning of John Frusciante
Please review the part with John Frusciante, if it really can be considered as Acid House. Yes, the tracks have Acid bass lines, but hardly any house beats. When Hardfloor doesn't belong in the in the Article, why does John Frusciante? I think there is some favoritism because because of his RHC connection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.239.142 (talk) 21:42, 6 July 2015 (UTC)