Talk:Actuary/Archive 2

Failed GA
Reasons (as per WP:WIAGA):
 * #1.b: Virtually no lead.
 * #6: No pictures. Not a requirement, but hurts.

--SeizureDog 12:08, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * More references couldn't hurt.
 * Plase use straight (' ") quotes instead of curlies (”). Ther curlies screw with my browser.


 * Thank you for your advice and suggestions. I have addressed most of them, except for the curly quote issues as we discussed on our talk pages re: WP:Mos. -- Avi 19:02, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with the SD's reasons, I don't like to see lists and especially not in the Lead section. Change the inline external links into citations. The section Academic actuarial programs sounds like at large advertisement. Lincher 05:51, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * See it was easy. Lincher 19:17, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the input and advice. -- Avi 19:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Next step
I am going to request a peer review of the article, as the next step in perhaps applying for featured status. Any suggestions are extremely welcome. -- Avi 19:36, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * These are some minor avenues that can be explored :

Lincher 20:34, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Needs more inline citations.
 * Needs a broader coverage (international ... other countries).
 * Adding pictures would be a plus (like an actuarian sitting at his desk).
 * Are there actuarians' organisms?
 * The Disciplines section should be expanded, including examples and problems actuarians have with the job.
 * Laws pertaining to actuarians?
 * Notable actuarians? if there are any?

Great questions, I've moved your comments to the peer review page, and I will address them there. Thanks. -- Avi 21:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Remuneration
I noted someone had used the "Prospects" actuarial salary information website for the UK salaries and linked the source accordingly. However, I noted that it said a newly qualified actuary earns between £30,000 and £50,000 (a range of figures which seemed staggeringly low - I'm a year out of university and I make more than £30k). I clicked on the link to find that the article doesn't actually say that but gives the range as £44k-£64k and notes that this is solely for insurance companies actuaries. I have therefore updated the article to reflect what it says. It's very hard to find reliable salary data on the net; does anyone know a good site for finding this information?--Zoso Jade 11:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * This is a good site for the US, I don't know about the UK: http://www.dwsimpson.com/salary.html -- Avi 20:20, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Pascal, et al.
Joe, while the data on Pascal et al. is fascinating and true, I really think that it belongs in Probability, as it has nothing to do with this article, about actuaries, or about its related article Actuarial science. Do you disagree? -- Avi 15:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Avi, i agree it belongs with probabily theory but i was reluctant to put it there. you know, i am shy and do not like stepping on other people's turf.  so maybe i will insert it there.


 * thanx, i do appreciate your advice. joe 15:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * correcting typo joe 15:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Joe, this is wikipedia, you need to be bold, because trust me, everyone else is not going to have reservations, and the entire idea is that immature trolls and vandals notwithstanding, there are enough people like you and me to ensure that the encyclopedia just keeps on getting better. -- Avi 16:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Life contingency history
The current article for life contingency is most likely Demography, so as the added information pertained not to actuaries but lifecon, I moved it there. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demography&diff=60035204&oldid=59974383 It may not be a bad idea for you to look at Demography, life expectancy, mortality, etc. and see whether or not a "Life contingecy" articke is neede, or one of the existing ones would suffice. Thanks. -- Avi 18:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

actuary selected as best job
avi; some organization picked actuary as the best job in the country. that was the article my youngest daughter saw and it convinced her to become an actuary.

your article Actuary should make maention of it. i will see if i can get the source.

joe 22:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC) fixing spelling

joe 22:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

fixing error joe 22:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Please look for the reference to Lee 2002. It's already there -- Avi 22:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Reinsurance, social insurance, and risk

 * copied from my talk page
 * Avi:
 * i cant find your recent reply to me re the above captioned subjects.
 * the underlying risks are similar but the actuarial skill sets are quite different.  for example, all the "old" guys like jack moorhead and bob meyers get involved in social insurance.  the size of the risks are enormous, and the quantification is vague because of politics.  look at the 9/11 WTC
 * years ago there was very little difference between an insurance company and a reinsurance company. but that has changed.  look at the 911 WTC loss.  forgot about what the contract says;  judges and politicians can reinterpret them any way that is convenient for them.  in my judgement, the actuarial skill set for senior actuaries in reinsurance is much more challenging than regular insurance.
 * since we are focusing on 'actuary' i believe it is important to show or hint at the tremendous breadth of business and societal risks that our profession has to cope with.
 * this seems to me also to require a new page about types of risk, and also about the tools we use that go far beyond life and other contgencies. not to mention chaos and complexity theory.
 * i will get back to this later in the afternoon. i am trying to fix one of my disfunctional computers. joe 16:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I hear your point about the change in focus and skill sets. I am a recently credentialed actuary, and I do not have your longer-term view. (To be honest, you were credentialed before I was born, so that sort of puts things in persepctive).

As for the breadth, I wholeheartedly agree, but we MUST be careful that everything is verifiable and sourced from a reliable source, and that there is no personal opinion, as that violates WP:NOR.

A new article about actuaries and risk is an excellent idea, and if one exists, then it calls for a brief paragraph with a link to the main article. See Ibrahim and Abraham for what I mean. -- Avi 16:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Layout of lead paragraph
I think that looks quite a bit better; thank you, Joe. -- Avi 02:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

America's best jobs Journal article
I moved the reference to the Wall Street Journal's best jobs in America article out of remuneration (As much as you might have thought, it wasn't ALL based on salaries!!) and into the lead paragraph. This paragraph may be better suited to another part of the article but not remuneration. ;) --Zoso Jade 12:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Perkins
Joe, that was a great addition; thanks! -- Avi 04:17, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikilinking: context
According to Manual of Style and Only make links that are relevant to the context, I think we should remove some of the extraneous wikilinks like "ancient history" and "family". I am going to go through the article and streamline the links, please comment upon it when I am done. Thanks! -- Avi 13:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Avi, i sent u a message, but your points are well taken. do what u think is right. i will let u know if i have any suggestions. joe 17:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations, everyone
It appears that our work has been appreciated and recognized by the featured article director, and the article is now a part of WP:FA. Of course, this does not mean we should not continue to fine-tune and better the article, but it is an accomplishment, a collaborative accomplishment. Well done, ladies and gents! -- Avi 22:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Development of modern profession section
I added this section (together with seven or eight references), based on the addition about commutation functions. In reality, much of that belongs in Actuarial Science as the main article. -- Avi 06:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Avi: u r a hard, enthusastic worker.  the credit of wp:fa goes to you.

btw, i dont know what that means, guessing it will be featured somewhere someday. conrats to Avi. joe 01:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Joe. What WP:FA means is that this article has been judged to be within the top 0.1% of all articles in Wikipedia, and represents the best Wikipedia has to offer. It also means that one day it might be the front page, but not necessarily. I appreciate your sentiments, but I will be the first to admit that it was a collaboration of ALL the editors; those that made changes, such as yourself and myself, and those that contributed through suggestions and constructive criticism. -- Avi 01:16, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Article mention/ fictional actuaries
Wikipedia has been mentioned in the UK edition of "The Actuary" a second time (in a response to the first article". Furthermore, this article is specifically mentioned and it is therefore possible a large number of British actuaries will be visiting this article in the near future.  Hopefully, they will also contribute to the article.

On an unrelated note, I have found that a few occupational articles mention fictional members of their profession. I've also noted that a number of schools and universities do the same with alumni - see London School of Economics where Josiah Bartlet is mentioned and Eton has the same for James Bond. Seeing as (unfortunately) the most publicly recognised actuaries are probably fictional, do we think it is worth a mention in some small way in the article?--Zoso Jade 09:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * could you send a link to the article? -- Avi 12:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It can be found here.--Zoso Jade 13:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Actuarial exam accreditation/organizations in more countries
Would it be worthwile to add other countries to the section titled "Credentialing and exams"? There is the sub-thing "Other countries", it mentions that the website of these organizations is often the easiest source for finding out about membership requirements. even if the other countries' requirements are similar to US/UK should a list of such websites be added? Caecilius 15:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The problem is that then that section would overwhelm the article. I created Category:Actuarial associations for that very reason, and I removed much of the data that was in this section to the various association articles such as Faculty of Actuaries and Casualty Actuarial Society. My suggestion is to populate the specific society article with the credentialling information, and once that is done, we can see how pertinent it is here. Thanks -- Avi 16:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Fictional actuaries
Isn't Ben Stiller's character in Along Came Polly an underwriter? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Modelthry (talk • contribs) 15:47, July 23, 2006  (UTC)


 * Agreed, but I haven't found a decent online script to prove it, so I've left that paragraph. I have removed the Fight Club reference - the narrator is a "recall coordinator" who "applies the formula", not an actuary. Google "fight club script" for evidence. --Actreal 03:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)