Talk:Adam Steltzner

Contested deletion
This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because of the successful landing of the mars rover last night and the importance of the space program in the United States of America.


 * I'm the one who requested a review. I mentioned it is a well written article and this is a great guy, but the reasons you give dont justify an encyclopedia entry for this particular individual. If anything his name can be mentioned on the MSL page, but a biography is going a bit far. Maybe one day if he is director of JPL... 108.88.224.230 (talk) 21:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I have declined the speedy because there is an assertion of notability, with some references. Please note that this does not mean that the article should be kept. A more focussed community consensus can be reached via the WP:AFD process. The JPS talk to me  21:42, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I understand User 108.88.224.230's concern and typically for single events we place the names within the main article itself. On the other hand, I also have been noticing on Wikipedia that many other "non-notable" people have articles created. For example, pretty much every Olympic athlete for 2012 games has a personal article regardless of whether they have won a medal or not, so it seems harmless to have this article posted as well. So I am 50/50 on it, but as the administrator mentioned it would be good to post on the AFD page. Please do so if you have not already User: 108.88.224.230. Thanks. --Theelectricchild (talk) 22:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I will do that. My main concern was the same you point out, notability for a single event. I've also seen the sharp increase of bios on Wikipedia, so maybe the guidelines need to be revised. I'm a bit disappointed the article's author removed the tag on the front page unilaterally. This isn't an attack on his work, it is simply making sure we have consensus that we follow encyclopedia guidelines and not turn Wilipedia into a who's who... 108.88.224.230 (talk) 23:26, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks for your response. Yes I do agree, please feel free to add the tag back until the dispute has been resolved. --Theelectricchild (talk) 23:43, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I would appreciate if you could start an AfD and not use a notability tag. The reason is, from your perspective, there is nothing I could do to make the subject notable, you have judged him non-notable and no amount of additional sources or wording would change that situation. (The article is already heavily sourced.) So the notability tag is not helpful in this case. The only resolution is AFD if you still believe the article to be in violation of specific Wikipedia rule(s). Green Cardamom (talk) 23:53, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

This is ridiculous – the guy has just landed the most important mission on Mars ever. Who are these deleteonauts who want to get rid of him? There seem to be some unduly costive people hanging around this encyclopaedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.85.147 (talk) 22:42, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you need to calm down and see if maybe your comments aren't ridiculous. You don't need to make personal attacks against people who simply want to make sure we follow Wikipedia policy on notability. Also, to be fair, it was not this one person who landed the rover on Mars, not by a long shot. 108.88.224.230 (talk) 23:30, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree about no personal attacks. There are six people involved with the MSL who at a minimum should have Wikipedia articles, they are the primary mission leaders: John Grunsfeld, NASA associate administrator, Charles Elachi, director, JPL, Pete Theisinger, MSL project manager, Richard Cook, MSL deputy project manager, Adam Steltzner, MSL entry, descent and landing (EDL) lead and John Grotzinger, MSL project scientist. You can see the six in this picture. We now have all of them, except one, Richard Cook. Green Cardamom (talk) 01:47, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree that all major players involved with MSL should have the same coverage. However he has been the face and voice for the EDL portion of this mission from the beginning and is therefore recognizable and curiosity worthy. There are also people, who have been following his career for years and that alone justifies his having a wiki page. Instead of deleting this, add pages on the rest of team. More information is always better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.95.53.137 (talk) 22:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination
Template:Did you know nominations/Adam Steltzner -- Green Cardamom (talk) 01:42, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

NASA picture
This section for discussion of this image of Adam Steltzner. Hope to hear from someone from NASA about licensing for upload to Wikipedia. Green Cardamom (talk) 20:44, 12 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Personality rights notwithstanding (and not relevant from a licensing perspective, this image can certainly be uploaded to Commons if desired, as NASA-created images are without copyright. I'm not fond of it simply due to the composition, but again, I'll upload if it is wanted. In the meantime, I've uploaded several other images and created a Commons category to hold them: commons:Category:Adam Steltzner. — Huntster (t @ c) 11:22, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Huntster, I appreciate the response and uploads. You say "NASA-created images are without copyright," however this is not always the case. According to JPL Image Policy, it says:
 * Some image and video materials on JPL public web sites are owned by organizations other than JPL or NASA. These owners have agreed to make their images and video available for journalistic, educational and personal uses, but restrictions are placed on commercial uses. To obtain permission for commercial use, contact the copyright owner listed in each image caption. Ownership of images and video by parties other than JPL and NASA is noted in the caption material with each image.

At the bottom of the images it says "NASA/Bill Ingalls". I contacted the Flickr account where these images came from and they told me they are a contractor of NASA (ie. not NASA) and that they images could not be used for commercial use (specifically the endorsement of a product or service). This seems to be supported by Wikilegal/NASA images and the license the images have at Flickr (CC-BY-NonCommercial). If you have information about these images otherwise it would be great to hear. If you are associated with NASA or the contractor who made these images that would be even better :) Green Cardamom (talk) 15:19, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Education
Ph.D. Engineering Mechanics, Department of Engineering Physics, University of Wisconsin-Madison (NEEP department now Engineering Physics; Engineering Mechanics and Astronautics; Academic Policies and Procedures For Graduate Work In Engineering Mechanics; Graduate School Catalog/Engineering Mechanics)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Adam Steltzner. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/mars/program.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 16:47, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

RFC about including Bobak Ferdowsi in the See Also section
Should Bobak Ferdowsi be included in the See Also section? Example diff. Green C  06:18, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Previously discussed in section above "See also".


 * Support. Adam Steltzner and Bobak Ferdowsi are frequently discussed in the same sources together. Typically in the context of the "changing face" of NASA engineers to be more "hip/cool" etc.. this article and this article sums it up nicely (there are many more). The second one is titled "Forget the Nerdy Image: Mars Rover Curiosity Team Includes “Mohawk Guy” [Ferdowsi] and Former Rock ‘n’ Roller [Steltzner]". As such when you see one in the press, you often see the other. For example, they were interviewed together on NPR. As such, I believe it makes sense to include Ferdowsi in the See Also section of this article. I am also open to expanding this duo in the main body of the article, since there is so much sourcing. --  Green  C  06:18, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Support. (disclaimer: came from YapperBot) Though WP:SEEALSO does not require that the section be noted, I do not see its inclusion as a detraction to the article. I would recommend making some sort of annotation on who Ferdowsi is within the See Also entry, but given the evidence GreenC has listed so far, I would support Ferdowsi's inclusion to help not only "build out the web" (as WP:SEEALSO puts it) but give more attention to related articles.  Invading Invader  (userpage, talk) 15:27, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Support Several RS cite the "Mohawk guy" who garnered special media attention that makes him more notable than many other employees at NASA who may have the same job title but are not as well known. CranberryMuffin (talk) 15:44, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose "Adam Steltzner and Bobak Ferdowsi are..." Not are, but actually were. The searches linked return results for a brief period in 2012 where the LA Times and other news outlets ran (IMO) a fluff piece highlighting "The Mohawk Guy" in the Control Room for the Curiosity Mission. Even Fedowsi's own Wikipedia page alludes to the brevity of his notoriety in the opening paragraph (source: Bobak_Ferdowsi). I get the point of building out the web, but the graph of connections of a JPL fellow is vast, and the See Also section should have some strict criteria for inclusion of topics that are relevant to the subject of the page — a handful of articles during a short periods of time shouldn't be one of them. Makerbro (talk) 03:42, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Support Per MOS:SEEALSO, "One purpose of "See also" links is to enable readers to explore tangentially related topics; however, articles linked should be related to the topic of the article or be in the same defining category." And ultimately, it's just up to us to use common sense, according to the MOS. Seems like a reasonable link, and otherwise not noted in the body of the article. Everything checks out. Pistongrinder (talk) 20:36, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Discussion
The reason for this RfC is another editor in the above discussion is "annoyed" that deserving scientists don't get recognition. This editor doesn't think Ferdowsi is deserving of the See Also section, since he is a lower rank/position employee at NASA/JPL and other higher ranking people are not included. This user says if we include Ferdowsi we *must* include every other director/lead of the Curiosity project in the See Also section. I find the whole thing bizarre for a number of reasons, so am turning it over to the community to decide. It has the feel of "office politics", or using Wikipedia to resolve some great harm. I'm also concerned by this users stated intention to include every director/lead of the Curiosity project in the See Also section, this would be inappropriate. Ferdowsi is included not for his title or rank, but because sources frequently tie these two together in a special/unique way. Simply working at the same organization or having a similar job description is not inherently notable for See Also. -- Green  C  07:03, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

"The reason for this RfC is another editor in the above discussion is 'annoyed' that deserving scientists don't get recognition..."

Strawman argument.

Context: editor GreenC  kept removing another entry in the See Also section for the co-inventor of the technology that brought Dr. Steltzner notoriety in the technical field (the Skycrane System) and who is also a Chief Engineer of the Curiosity Mission — a title he shared with Dr. Steltner and is well known for. The argument against Fedowsi is separate, so I don't see the point the aforementioned user is trying to make. --Makerbro 04:07, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * It wasn't clear to me, at the time, why you were adding this person. I'm not against it now, and am not trying to remove it now, so not sure why you bring this up. Your the one who keeps removing Fedowsi, even now, leaving no option but a conflict resolution process. You are unable to compromise by including both, and set an ultimatum if you don't your way you are going to add tons of names into the section, apparently to make a WP:POINT about the lack of visibility of deserving scientists WP:GREATWRONG. -- Green  C  04:13, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I fundamentally disagree with including Fedowsi, because if throughout Wikipedia we were to include in the "See also" section every person that shared "fame" for a brief period of time with the subject of the article, those lists would get pretty long. Though this isn't the case for Adam Stelzner, I tend to be be coherent and set personal editing standards that can be applied to any single page.
 * "set an ultimatum if you don't your way you are going to add tons of names into the section..."
 * Honestly, I do not understand how you jump to these conclusions. I never threatened you with such a thing, and this isn't the first time you've been called out on this behavior. Keep your arguments evidence-based and don't make unsubstantiated attacks to those who don't see things your way. Makerbro (talk) 23:54, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Above: . -- Green  C  00:04, 3 October 2023 (UTC)