Talk:Adana/Archive 2

armenian sources vs turkish sources
Well, I would be happy if one of the reverters who was alerted by Khoi.. can tell me how an armenian source that is in armenian language can be accepted as an relevant sources, but Turkish one that is in english. Besides, Turkish one was published by Turkish government, other is written by an individual. --TuzsuzDeliBekir 16:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you be more specific? Fad (ix) 16:56, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I dont know what source is being discussed here but my dear TDB, you have to understand that an Armenian souce, especially if its written in Armenian will have much greater credence to an Armenian than any other source (dont even mention Turkish!). Its just another case of camel fodder and should simply be treated as such (ie ignored) Lutherian 18:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Hasn't anyone considered doing something like splitting the "External Links" section into languages (i.e., labelling them "In English", "In Turkish", "In Armenian", "In Lakota", etc. et al.)? Because frankly, all this verting and reverting and re-reverting seems highly ridiculous. —Saposcat 20:29, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

IMO references to other wikis must be disallowed, because of Verifiability problem, jus the same as with blogs. In adition, the information content is not guaranteed. We cannot endorse the text which is not guaranteed to be the same at the moment of fererring. `'mikka (t) 23:20, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It turns out the map is from a different website, so I included a link to it from there.


 * And TDB, there's a difference between adding text into an article based on a biased source, and adding a something to the External links section that is biased. Anyways, not much of an issue anymore, I hope. &mdash;Khoikhoi 00:43, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe it IS an issue! I cannot believe my link was removed because it has an Armenian source - as if Armenians are incapable of producing anything worthwhile on Adana!  The text was just scanned from an excellent soviet encyclopedia - and placed on a wiki where I hope to get help translating it to English so that more people can benefit from what it says.  Meanwhile, to allow someone to remove the link because wikis are unreliable is ridiculous to the extreme!  And to include a link to simply the map, when it is already on a page with additional information makes little sense.  Why don't ppl leave the link be, see how it develops in English, and then if it seems like a rabid nationalist worthless document, remove it or warn people.  But if you go through Armeniapedia.org - I believe the materials on there stand up for themselves, and frankly, I welcome Turkish edits there - on the same condition as I do Armenian and Chinese for that matter.  --RaffiKojian 03:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Produced by an Armenian in the Armenian language and coming from a Soviet encyclopedia and you expect it to be objective on the subject of Adana? What have you been smoking? 81.62.143.131 08:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh my god, how did I not realize? How could I be so blind??  It could never, ever be objective on the subject of such magnitude as...  ADANA!!!!!!  Go and read the parts I have translated so far, and get over your anonymous self.  --RaffiKojian 09:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No need to, the combination of Armenian and Soviet treating a subject as touchy as Adana is probably the epitome of biasedness. I think we can skip the document entirely!

The following sentences were recently readded:


 * After World War I, the Ottoman government gave the control of the city over to Allied forces. The Armenian gangs armed by the Frech invasion forces were terrorizing the city and more Armenians were settled in the city from eastern provinces by a French policy to create a lesser Armenian state.

The source provided is this. Although I respect this attempt at providing a source, it seems doubtful as per reliable sources guidelines, not only due to the quite poor and obviously directly translated English, but also as a result of phrases used in the source like "just like during the Crusades", "crucifying the Turks", etc.

I think that, if the sentences cannot be backed up by other sources, or at least rephrased so as to avoid somewhat POV terms such as "terrorizing", it would probably best be removed.

Let me also say that I do not necessarily disagree with the information presented: it may well be fact, and it may well not. In Wikipedia, however, the criterion is verifiability, not truth. —Saposcat 12:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

French Army Armenian Legion in Adana and Anatolia
An Armenian source states that France formed an "Armenian Legion" and this Legion fought in Adana (and other places) to create an independent Armenian state there. It even mentions "In May 1919, the Armenians declared Cilicia, independent and an Armenian Governor was appointed in Adana." Off course the source also uses wording like "murderer, robber, barbarian Turk", but I'm willing to accept the source in this case so no problem :)

Another source in French mentions that "Il sera créé, à Chypre, une « Légion d’Orient », à recruter parmi les volontaires d’origine ottomane, qui s’engageront à servir, comme auxiliaires, sous les drapeaux français, pendant la durée de la guerre, pour être employés en Turquie d’Asie (Arménie occidentale)." This says in short that: Ottoman Armenians were recruited by French to combat in Anatolia. Against Turks off course.

It also says "Les sujets ottomans recrutés en Amérique par les comités arméniens et syriens seront reçus par l’autorité militaire à Bordeaux et à Marseille. Les frais de voyage d’Amérique en France de ceux, dont l’engagement sera accepté, seront remboursés aux comités recruteurs." which means there are committees which recruited these soldiers and reimbursed by French goverment for travel expenses. Good NGO work.

In Wikipedia, the Armenian Legion refers to a group in WWII and not this legion at all.

There's another site http://legionarmenian.free.fr which has a photo of this Legion in Mersin in front of a demolished Ottoman building (what they were doing there I don't know). The site is in Russian but maybe some of our Armenian friends can help us translate.

I'll do some more research and add this info to Adana article. I think no one will contest the sources then.

--Gokhan 14:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * That's well-done research. I'd say fit it in somehow, rephrase the word "terrorizing" somehow, and we've got all that we need (in my opinion, at least). Good work. —Saposcat 14:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes I think some of it could be correct in this sense: probably Armenian recruits were sentimental because of 1915 and Cilicia issues and they were mostly volunteers without any formal military training. Maybe the "terrorizing" issue rose from there? Anyway you're right some rephrasing would be better. --Gokhan 15:08, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No objection from me. I'll start working on an article for the French Armenian Legion. --Eupator 14:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Eupator, can you help with this Russian source? I wondered what it's saying.  At least a small help would be nice!  Btw I think if you start this French Armenian Legion article, then we can mention a small bit in Adana article and link to the real thing.  Another point, the french document mentions "syriens", probably these are Assyrians right? What do you say?  --Gokhan 15:08, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Nice work, rephrasing it should do the job. &mdash;Khoikhoi 15:12, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The Soviet-Armenian text section on this period is brief (at least what I've translated is, but I think this is it). "The Armenian population of the city and province of Adana were subjected to massacres in 1908 and 1915. During the 1915 Armenian Genocide in the province there were 37,000 Armenian victims (according to Lepsius). On August 4, 1920 Armenians declared an independent Cilicia - which included Adana - which was very short-lived. The Armenians who fled Adana settled in Lebanon, and some founded a "New Adana" (Նոր Ադանա) suburb in Beirut." This is an exact translation, the text did not have phrases like "Terrorist Turks", or other racist nonsense. I think it is a pretty reliable source, but then again, that will have to be decided by consensus - and on the whole of the article.  You can't use it as a reliable source for one thing (Armenians declaring independence), and then ignore it as a source for massacre numbers... --RaffiKojian 03:17, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

What if ?
By the way, I sometimes wonder what if none of these imperialist countries (Russia, France, United Kingdom, Germany, etc) hadn't stick their hands in Ottoman Empire and hadn't incite each against other. Maybe all of this wouldn't happen at all and we would probably be neighbours and friends today?

Am I too naive? Feels good to imagine. --Gokhan 15:13, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Not a discussion forum :) --Eupator 15:29, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

My "explore adana" site
I added a link to an Adana website that I'm creating as a resource to foreigners visiting or plannng to visit Adana. The reason I am creating it is that I have have seen the sites that are mentioned in the external links section and found most of them to be irrelevant, outdated, or unflattering of Adana. I was disappointed when my site was promptly removed by Khoikhoi as "spam". There are three other websites that I seem to be "personal" and "advertising" websites. I think that if you check out my website, you'll see that it's a helpful contribution to the external links section of this site (especially if you look at when some of the other websites were last updated.)

Thanks, Jake


 * Hi Jake. Like I said, you are more than welcome to add content (for example by uploading some of your pictures) to articles, but adding external links is generally discouraged. Here's why: we don't want Wikipedia to turn into a directory of links, Wikipedia doesn't grow that way, and it's against policy to use Wikipedia as a platform to promote your website. Feel free to remove the three other links that appear to be personal and advertising. &mdash; Khoikhoi 02:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

geografy
I think we should add geografy cilimate and geology.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.12.136.186 (talk) 09:39, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

Comments
Hey, I guess the population here needs fixing http://www.tuik.gov.tr/jsp/duyuru/upload/adnks_Harita_TR/HaritaTR.html when we check this link (Official Office of Statistics) Adana has 2 006 650 residents in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.99.14.171 (talk) 17:36, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Untitled
Hey all, I'm the WikiProject Cities assessor of this article. If feedback is what you want and need, come to my talk page and give me a holler! --Starstriker7(Dime algoor see my works) 23:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Transportation
I think transportation needs more information, especially buses, as Adana being a major transfer route from Western Turkey to Southeastern Turkey and Middle East. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seyhan668 (talk • contribs) 16:05, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Arzava ?
According to Chronology section Adana was a part of Arzawa between 1500-1333 BC. Any reference ? This Wiki, like most other sources locates Arzawa in West Anatolia, (Lydia region) which is much further in the west. But probably, Adana was apart of another state, namely Kizzuwatna. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Adana Governor
Governor is the governor of the Adana province, not the city of Adana. On the infobox of the cities in Turkey, governor names shall be removed. Seyhan668 (talk) 12:27, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Newroz in Adana.jpg
I had placed this picture at the demographics section, but it's been deleted twice without giving any reason. This picture does not involve any politics, it is a celebration of a holiday of an ethnic group which is almost a third of the population of Adana. Please discuss here before deleting any picture. Seyhan668 (talk) 12:27, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Yenice meeting
In section Modern Era there is a photo of İnönü with Churchill. The photo shows an important meeting. But technically the caption of the image is not right. Actually the meeting was held in Yenice a small town in Mersin Province. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 16:47, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I have simply changed it to "near Adana" for now. Hans Adler 19:01, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

It is true that Yenice Station is in Mersin Province, but in this case it is not important. The meeting was meant to be done in Adana, but İnönü wanted to have it at the countryside to show Churchill that the country is not ready to get into a war. In many history books the meeting is mentioned as Adana meeting. Adana is also the closest major city to that railway station. Nevertheless, if we can not make a consensus on this information to stay on Adana article, we can think of removing it.Seyhan668 (talk) 14:43, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Oceans 12 picture
This picture does not represent Adana for any how. It pictures the Oceans 12 cast visiting Incirlik Air Base. Many people can visit the city.Seyhan668 (talk) 18:29, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Name Arzawa cleared
Last year (14 September 09 to be exact), I had remarked that the section chronology had a flaw. As far as I know, Adana was never a part of Arzawa. (Arzawa was much further in the west and Adana was probably a part of Kizzuwatna). I waited for a reply and then I discovered that the contributer had been blocked indefinitely. Today I cleared out the name Arzawa. But still if somebody has a source about Arzawa dominance over Adana, please revert my edit, citing the source. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:06, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Wrong information about climate.
Adana has a typical Mediterranean climate. Winters are mild and wet and summers are hot and dry. Totally wrong. Summers are very humid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.7.112.78 (talk) 13:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Greeks Expelled from Adana 1922
Maraki21 (talk) 16:27, 17 October 2012 (UTC)This article makes no mention about the Greeks expelled from Adana in 1922. §

Greek populations
Hello ...Ι am from Greece ...Is there in Adana residents with GREEK origin;;;;;; .... because i found my surname in some residences ....I am trying to find my roots .. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.64.16.138 (talk) 21:23, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
 * This is not a topix forum, this is a talk page to suggest or discuss potential article improvements. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 21:31, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Muslim population of Adana was almost only Turkish during 14th-19th century
The Ottomans did not make differences between Muslim ethnicities in their census, but in this case in Adana the greatest possiblity is that the Muslims were Turks. The Arabs from Adana are allmost all Nusayris who came from Syria, Latakia region in the 19th century they settled in the southern plain of Adana where they became gardeners. The Kurds of Adana are almost all immigrants since the beginning of 1900, before this there was a very small Kurdish presence, mostly individuals. The Muslims of the entire Cilicia region and city of Adana were almost all Turkish speaking till the migration of Nusayris and Kurds in the 19th century.

So the source I added already explained this and so we can not change the source to include Arabs and Kurds in the city population, the facts show that they are recent immigrants.

Adana was in the early Middle Ages part of the Abbasid caliphate, Muslims were living in the city, they were probably Arabic speaking. However in the 10th century Adana and entire Cilicia region was captured by the Byzantines and Crusaders, the entire Muslim population died, converted or were expelled, no Muslims remained. Later Adana was captured by the Mamluks and Turkmens from the Armenians in the 14th century. But by then the Muslim population of Adana and its surrounding Taurus mountains and plains were almost all Turkish speaking nomads. A Turkish beylik Ramazanids was formed. Till the 19th century Turkish nomads ruled this area and migrated in the summer to the mountains and in the winter to the plain. However they were forcibly settled by the Ottoman government after 1860. There is no historical record for Arab tribes or people in this region.

The Ottoman registers show the names of the tribes, almost all are Turkic, medieval travelers who went to this region mentioned the Turkish nomads, Arabs are mentioned far further, in areas close to Aleppo not in Adana. Almost all geographical toponyms of the province of Adana and Cilicia are in Turkish. Even the Armenians who lived together with the Turks were so influenced they did not knew Armenian and talked Turkish as their mother language till the 20th century. The Ottomans did record the names of the neighbourhoods and tribes they are almost all Turkic, which confirms the Turkish identity. Neigbourhoods in 1530: source= Ağca mescit, Tarsus kapı, Yukarı, Yenicami/Halil bey, Çukurmescit, Kadımescidi, Cuma mesciti, Su gediği, Kantaroğlu, Debbağan, Keçeci, Hacıfakıoğlu, Karasofu, Hasırcılar, Kantemur.

The names of the surrounding tribes are: source=

Ekder, Sarıcumalı, Acurga, Karafazıllı, Hasanhacılı, Kahalar, Adaklı, Sarıcuma/Arsanlı, Karaman sekisi, Ayvadlı, Karamustafalı, Abdişeyhler, Caferli, Paşalı/boğalı, Karayusuflu, Sekili, Müluklu, Karalar, Karakoçlu, Makıllı, Alacaatlıoğlu, Karlılı, Alihocalı/Seydili, Sakalcılar, Alibey Halil, Kaşıklı, Kulagözlü, Orduyu Emir müluklu, Yılanlıca, Sofuzadeoğlanları, İncirgeli, Keskili, Yavaşbeyli,Kaş. DragonTiger23 (talk) 19:53, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

There is a visual problem in the page.
Headline says it all there is a problem.To the one who is supposed to check or fix this it needs help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.7.71.119 (talk) 16:23, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

ancient Greek name
What is the ancient Greek name, antioch in cilicia? modern Greek name is irrelevant DenizTC 04:16, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I want to ask the same question. What is the Greek name during Byzantine era? Adana or Atana?--Qijiang ok (talk) 16:59, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

History subheadings
I noticed there are two separate history sections for this article. I don't really have the time myself to go through and figure out what has been duplicated and what hasn't, but hoepfully this will catch someone's attention who does have the time. Blackbird_4 08:03, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Intelligence and honesty of inhabitant!
I am surprised that this sentence has not been deleted: "People of Adana, Adanalı, are well known with their bravery, honesty and generosity, but less known with their fluid intelligence that is not much bounded by structures of thought or belief systems. In a clear state of mind, this type of intelligence opens immense creativity and productivity; without clarity swings person from great production to great destruction". This is verbose, unencyclopaedic and quite unverifiable.Royalcourtier (talk) 07:40, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

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