Talk:Adena culture

Comment
i think it's great that you added the adena culture to wikipedia... i have long had an interest in local archaeology (in live in sw pennsylvania) and the adena and hopewell cultures are some of the most interesting. on a side note- do a google search for "octagon moonrise" that site has some interesting info about the celestial alignments of the newark, oh mounds (hopewell) - you'd probably be interested in it...

but there is no archaeological evidence, at least none that holds up under scrutiny, that ANY native american cultures (pre-columbian or not) had significant numbers of people that tall. i am a member of the Society for Pa Archaeology and have participated in many discusssions on how this myth first developed. most archaeologists believe that it simply lies in misinterpretations made by early archaeologists (from the late 1800s and early 1900s) based on the layout of the bones they would find. and once stated in their findings, and embedded the conscience of those interested, well... those myths have persisted to this day.

so i would, if i were you, remove that portion of your entry. it is simply wrong. other than that, i liked the article.

i always forget how to sign my responses. if this doesn't work, my wikipedia name is "los diablos" - feel free to comment on my talk page.

Los Diablos 20:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

If anyone finds this article, please give me feedback as I wrote most of it and am watching it. Vermoskitten 03:36, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Hello Vermoskitten - I have made some minor changes. I hope you find them acceptable. The major changes and additions which could be made I set out below. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.145.207 (talk) 16:52, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

If you want people to take this page serious, try NOT using comic sans. For real, it's like my mom made that map after I showed her how to open MS paint in windows 95. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpwj (talk • contribs) 13:54, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

About "search Google"
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and it is inappropriate to give resources as "search Google". If you think that turns up useful material such as names of books, directly list the names of the books. This article can be reused in many different ways, not just as a Wikipedia web page. If the page is printed, or if someone can't use Google in China, but they have a library or a bookstore, the names of the books will still be useful. Also the results of a Google search can change radically over time, as their software and the web evolves; a search that works well today may not work so well in six months. Stop by the Help desk or the Village pump if you need further guidance. However, it is completely OK to put the Google hints on this Talk page to help other editors do more research.

Incidentally, don't expect much feedback from peer review now, since the article is far from ready for that level of scrutiny. --KSmrqT 21:22, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Adena stature
Well, on average the Adena males were 5 ft 6, and women 5ft 2.Yes it's true that the people, overall, were not very tall. However, The very tall ones were infact the honored ruler class--The skeletons of those found in the actual burial mounds. These elite guys were averaging about 6 feet in height, with some men 7 feet or more in stature.

I can think of a number of tribes who had men as tall as 7 feet within the last several hunbdred years:

The Rappahannocks of Virginia, Susquehannocks of Pennsylvania, Karankawas of Texas, and the Seris of Tiburon Island-- all had reported men of very tall stature among their tribes.

Many of the first Spanish and English explorers, though fanciful, did report coming across men of uncommonly huge size. John Smith speaks of the Susquehannocks as giants. DeSoto's captains report coming across a Seri Indian so tall, the tallest man only came to the giant's chest.

But it would be foolish to take everything out of context and say that the Native Americans were giants in general... Infact, most were rather average, with some very tall, and some very short among the different tribes.

Adena outside United States
If any US archaeologists can discuss what they know about the Adena influence in the Maritimes of Canada please do. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.106.196.31 (talk) 13:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC).


 * I'm not a US archaeologist, nor a Canadian archaeologist, but you are looking for:
 * https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982217310916
 * http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/dna-study-beothuk-newfoundland-population-1.4351938
 * https://phys.org/news/2017-10-newfoundland-populated-multiple-distinct-groups.html
 * https://socialsciences.mcmaster.ca/anthropology/news/dna-helps-illuminate-the-complex-population-dynamics-of-the-first-peoples-of-newfoundland-and-labrador


 * My current working hypothesis is that Adena is the southern migration of Canadian Maritime Archaic, marked by X mt DNA.
 * It appears that this poplation moved into interior Canada to become Canadian Red Paint, then evolved into Old Copper Culture, which in turn became Adena, and survived as Andaste. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.145.207 (talk • contribs)

Doctor Dragoo of Carnegy [sp: Carnegie](Vol #37 1963) et. al. explained the first arrivals to the north side of the Ohio Valley (Ohio-Indiana) came in what appears to be a freindly trade of Linid Skull (Prof Neuman) shaped people from the north and tend to begin settling near the Adena of that part of the region. A second "wave" of Linids arrived towards the end of the "Classic Period Adena" (ca B.C 400 or so) and described as what appears to be a hostile invasion based on "slave burial" studies in the region above the north shores of the Ohio River. These scientist further demonstrated that the Adena began to migrate in mass south of the Ohio River and others migrated away towards the Archaic Point Peninsula who had already been assimilating with a rising Eastern Woodland culture by that time. The Late Adena mounds in this region south of Lakes Erie and Ontario of western New York and western Pennsylvania became progressively smaller, showing a rather quick, archaeological speaking, assimilation with those Woodlanders loosing the Adena traits. This happened as what these early modern scientist call "Late Adena" period. The Linid skulled people were to become commonly called Hopewell culture. These Hopwellian's (2nd Wave) "slave burials" were studied and these skulls identified similar to the earlier Adena from the "Classic Adena" of the greater Ohio Valley. Dragoo further explains that it appears the Late Adena "held their ground" for some considerable amount of time south of the Ohio River along the mountain valley's rivers. Of course, this is sometimes called "the old theory" today. Yet, here in West Virginia, the Woodland Middle Period had to be re-defined to include "Adena" the past decade or so. The navigation dams expansion in our area required surveying effected site in much greater detail than the classic scientist had resources to continued. These recent findings tend to support the modern scientist of some 50 years ago. Young up-coming scholars in the field are also discovering new finds, especially through DNA studies which presently is being funded here, that Doctors Neuman, Dragoo, Chard and Snow et. al. were not so far off after all. The early DNA results show that Dragoo's explanation of association from Archaic Glacial Kame to Adena to Fort Ancient has no connection, so far, with the Hopewellian.

A list of Adena hilltop forts similar to the one for mounds could be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.145.207 (talk) 16:56, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

It needs to be stressed that this is only from a few amplified site examples, so far, and much more of these latest scientific methods will give a much clearer view hopefully in the near future. The latest scientists are treading along seemingly aware of possible "breaking of old molds of thought", therefore, cautious not to publish too soon of these ongoing findings. Simply, more studies are needed coming funding and work across all the fields of study of prehistoric Ohio Valley. Conaughy (talk) 03:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * [Excuse me, but the current studies show that the initial C mt DNA which survives in the Wendat (Huron) people shows that Glacial Kame was an adoption of Adena technology in the west of Ohio, just as C mt DNA survival in Shawnee shows that Ohio Red Ocher was an adoption of Adena technology in the eastern part of Ohio. We often forget that there were no "Hopewell" people, just as there were no "Adena" people, as those names refer to material cultures, not ethnicities, which can be determined by DNA studies. For example for the "Adena", the successor people were the Andaste.


 * What is usually referred to as "Hopewell" appears to be a social method for regulating inter tribal affairs, a social technology for organizing groups to control larger areas, reduce warfare, and increase trade - a social technology which was adopted by many genetically and culturally distinct peoples.


 * The section on Adena stone tablets needs to be updated to include Bob Converse's analysis of them, available either through his book or his article in Ohio Archaeologist. An illustration would be nice.


 * The distribution of Adena material culture extends to the Chesapeake Bay and up the Susquehannock River, so Maryland needs to be added to the list of states.


 * Later Adena copper came from both Copper Hill, Tennessee, deposits in Virginia off the Roanoke River, and float copper from Illinois and Indiana,as well as the Great Lakes sources.


 * The description of Adena pottery needs to mention its thickness.


 * Given the problems with looting, it is probably best to leave out mention in the article of the Adena stone burials.] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.145.207 (talk • contribs)

Problem with existance dates
Hi. There seems to be a problem with the existance dates. It says the Adena culture existed from c. 1000 AD to 100 AD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.100.48.231 (talk) 02:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The editor is likely giving dates north of the Ohio River, those watersheds. Anybody who has read the primary sources of the greater Ohio Valley and tributaries have to agree with you. Britannica had a good summary in the 1988 version, albeit, not as detailed as the doctorates own writings. 151.205.83.93 (talk) 07:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Re-write
I've been sitting here for days(I live in La. about 30 miles from the coast) and the hurricanes have screwed up my work schedule, so I've had some spare time on my hands. I just rewrote large portions of this is article, putting in citations, adding sections and more info, I also recently added a map. I think it looks alot better. Some parts, such as tools could use some more stuff. Anybody wanna help out? Heironymous Rowe (talk) 04:12, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Two distinctive Adena tool technologies, the finely serated edges and the polished stone tools, as well as their fishing technologies, should be mentioned.

Just an FYI concerning the dates of the Woodland Indian period. It should read...1000-200 years BP...(Not BC or AD) BP refers to Before Present. 68.66.23.86 (talk) 02:51, 4 September 2012 (UTC) (Archeology lingo)
 * No, the dating is correct, the Adena culture lasted until approximately 200 BCE or BC, which is most definitely not 200 BP, or just a little over 200 yrs ago.  He  iro

To state the obvious, the dating depends on what sites you include. And do you include Old Copper Culture on Lake Erie. If you use 1000 BCE - 200 CE it should work for wikipedia purposes.

Orphaned references in Adena culture
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Adena culture's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "nris": From National Register of Historic Places: National Register Information System, National Register of Historic Places, National Park Service. Retrieved April 11, 2007. From Mounds State Park:  From Adena Mound (Ross County, Ohio):  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 21:24, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed I think.Heironymous Rowe (talk) 21:50, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Inconsistency
I noticed an inconsistency... the table entry for Grave Creek Mound claims it is "the largest conical-type burial mound in the United States." The entry for Miamisburg Mound says that it is the largest conical burial mound east of the Mississipi. Both mounds are east of the Mississipi. So one of the entries must be wrong. --Doppelbock (talk) 19:43, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 06:42, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Adena mound in McKees Rocks
The Adena culture extends farther into Pennsylvania than stated. It is possible that there was a mound in downtown Pittsburgh itself. Look up “the hump”. Mckees Rocks definitely is well documented. 98.111.201.107 (talk) 10:35, 3 September 2022 (UTC)