Talk:Administrative divisions of Moscow

Zelenograd and Acronyms
/EN/ The unchanges of User:Ezhiki for changes User:Alex Spade. /RU/ Отмена пользователем User:Ezhiki изменений пользователя User:Alex Spade.

/English/ Why have you unchanged my changes? In comments Administrative divisions of Moscow you wrote ''please do not mix up the terms of administrative and municipal divisions. The article is about administrative units, not about municipalities''. I didn't do anything with municipalities (Kryukovo, Panfilovsky or/and etc.). I'd did 2 corretion:

1) I'd corrected City of Zelenograd to Zelenograd Administrative Okrug. ZelAO (ЗелАО) is one of ten Administrative Okrugs of Moscow (see ru:Административное деление Москвы). Zelenograd (city) is the majority of ZelAO, but it's not whole of them.

2) I'd inserted the widly used acronyms of Administrative Okrugs and their lat. transliterations. Is this information uninteresting or mistaken?

/Русский/ Почему вы отменили мои исправления? В комментариях вы написали ---. Я ничего не делал с муниципалитетами (Крюково, Панфиловский и/или другие). Я сделал две коррекции:

1. Исправил город ru:Зеленоград на ru:Зеленоградский административный округ. ЗелАО - это один из десяти округов Москвы (см. ru:Административное деление Москвы). Зеленоград же - большая часть ЗелАО, но не вся.

2. Ввёл широко употребляемые сокращения названий округов и их латинские транслитерации. Моя информация неинтересна или ошибочна?

--Alex Spade 19:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC) See also (см. также) ru:Участник:Alex Spade


 * Crossposted from User talk:Ezhiki:


 * Hi, Alex! Thanks for you interest and inquiry.  The reason for my change was that the article as it exists is about administrative and territorial divisions of the city (i.e., as described in the Law of the City of Moscow On territorial division of the city of Moscow ("О территориальном делении города Москвы")), not about its municipal division (i.e., as described in the Law of the city of Moscow On creation of internal municipalities of the city of Moscow ("Об образовании внутригородских муниципальных образований города Москвы")).  The difference in general is between Moscow's "внутригородские муниципальные образования" (such as "ZelAO") and "районы города" (such as "City of Zelenograd", which, by the way, is not the same as Zelenograd proper).
 * Anyway, if the subject overall interests you, you might want to take a look at Talk:Administrative divisions of Vologda Oblast, where another user was challenging the accuracy of that article for the similar reason. That discussion was in Russian, but I see you have no problem with that.
 * Rest assured, I did not revert your edit because it was "uninteresting", but it was indeed "mistaken". I apologize that my edit summary was not clear enough to explain my motives.  The information you added belongs to (currently non-existing) Municipal divisions of Moscow, not to this article.  You are more than welcome to start the article about Moscow's municipalities; that set will need to be created eventually anyway, and Moscow is as good place to start as any.
 * Please let me know if you have any further questions. Cheers,&mdash;Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 21:09, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

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Confusing
"While administrative okrugs are a subdivision of state administration, districts have the status of municipal formations, i.e. local self-government entities."

I'm a bit confused by this sentence juxtaposed against the infobox included in the article. I'm not sure why I understand this is set-up differently than the comparable article Administrative divisions of Saint Petersburg. The St. Petersburg article is easy to understand: you have 18 administrative divisions (city districts) and within those you've got numerous municipal formations (okrugs, towns, and settlements). The 18 administrative divisions are not subdivided.

I guess what's confusing me on this article is that it shows that Moscow has 12 administrative divisions (okrugs), but that these divisions are also subdivided into 146 administrative districts (raions)? Is this correct? And then that the borders of the administrative districts also serve as the borders for the municipal formations? So is the difference that St. Petersburg is administratively divided only one (city districts), whereas Moscow is administratively consists of two divisions (orkrugs then raions)? Or is it the same as St. Petersburg and the mention of administrative districts/raions not correct? --Criticalthinker (talk) 08:04, 3 August 2020 (UTC)


 * It looks like this (Category:Municipal divisions of Moscow) answers pretty well my queston:
 * "In Moscow, all administrative divisions also correspond with municipal divisions. There are 146 lower administrative units in Moscow, thereby there are 146 municipal units in Moscow."
 * So it does seem that the okrugs are divided into raions/districts and that municipalities correspond directly to them. Also, like St. Petersburg, it appears that the municipal formations have formal titles.  There are 125 municipal okrugs, 19 settlements, and 2 urban okrugs.  It looks like the 2 urban okrugs are Shcherbinka and Troitsk.  That is unless they lost this title/status when annexed into Moscow. --Criticalthinker (talk) 10:38, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, indeed, when they expanded Moscow a few years ago (adding two new okrugs), they significantly increased complexity.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:34, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Would it be all right to identify these two by their municipal titles since it appears that the list does infact identify the others administrative raions by their municipal titles? Also, a kind of side question, but on the administrative side what are the titles of the persons who heads an administrative orkug administration and raion administration?


 * I guess what was confusing is that the St. Petersburg article on its divisions seems to clearly imply that it's an article about both its administrative and municipal divisions, whereas it's less clear what this article covers. It seems to be more focus on the administrative divisions of Moscow, but then uses the municipal formation titles (save for the two municipal okrugs) when listing the administrative raions. --Criticalthinker (talk) 07:52, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Apologies, the two are Troitsky and Novomoskovsky--Ymblanter (talk) 06:18, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I was talking about the municipal formations. Shcherbinka and Troitsk are styled as "urban okrugs" as municipalities prior to their annexation. --Criticalthinker (talk) 11:10, 5 August 2020 (UTC)