Talk:Adnan Sami

Untitled
He is a Pakistani who sacrificed his nationality to become an indian for the sake of popularity in the music field.

Article cleanup needed

 * Info box needed
 * The biography section of the article needs some "fleshing out"
 * A discography would be useful

Please, do NOT reinsert "fan" material. You can see my HTML comments within the page that mark it as such. --Otheus 23:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC) This is not 'Fan' material. The latest edits have been authorised by Mr. Adnan Sami himself. They are hundred percent accurate for once as most edits in the past have been grossly misleading & fictional. I have been instructed by him to do the changes for the record. Thank You.--Peter Downings

Nationality and ethnicity
Can we agree - is he Pakistani or Indian? I was under the impression that he was Indian and thus changed all the categories, but now I see this article is monitored by WP Pakistan... I'm confused. Cricketgirl 20:46, 22 April 2007 (UTC) He is sure Pakistani by nationality. But Music (mainly classical) doesn't fall in "Pakistani" category, at most it can be Music from Pakistan. It is funny to read "Pakistani classical music" in biographical note.

His music is not Pakistani music, it's Indian. He uses Indian lyricists, Indian studios, Indian production companies, lives in India, and sells for a primarily Indian audience. Nothing about him is Pakistani except that he was born there, the same way Mel Gibson was born in Australia but today has nothing to do with Australia. One of Adnan Sami's parent's was even Indian.

Well, I think he is Pakistani. And I'm not real clear on how you differentiate Indian Music from Paki Music. But I think ethnically, he's Pakistani, and histortically, that would make him Indian. Today, though, I think it would be plausible to quote him as Pakistani. He relies on India for infrastructure, because let's be honest, the Pakistani Music Industry sucks. Look at Strings, they're working very closely with the Indian Industry now. He is a Pakistani and sang songs for the Pakistani music industry for most of his life. I am now going to make the edit to remove that part in the article. And I am not sure why you would say the Pakistani Music Industry sucks when clearly they are making some amazing work! The only thing you can say is the record companies are more brutal in Pakistan. UnitedPakistan 23:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I hope this settles it. Several bio sites mention he was born in the UK, not Pakistan or India. So his parents are Pakistani and Indian, and his ethnicity, Urdu, is derived from both. Since his ethnicity is fairly important to his notoriety, as required by WP:BIO and other wiki guidelines, this is and should be mentioned in the lead.
 * Also, the bio's give different names for his father. I'm using the name provided by one written by Sharon Supriya since it gives more details than the web promotion site.

--Otheus 14:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

What's the point of calling him Pakistani if he was born in London, only one of his parents was Pakistani, and he lives in India? If anything he's a British Indian, or just Indian since his mother is Indian, he lives in India, sings for Indian composers, sells albums to a mostly Indian audience, was discovered and trained by Indians, and has never lived in Pakistan in his life.

Adnan Sami is a Pakistani... period. He started his carrier in Pakistan by acting and singing in a film SARGAM in early nineties. He had 5-6 Album released during that time from Pakistan and England. In fact his recently released Album has lots of numbers from that time. He was unknown in India at that time. For short period of time when he was very young he also appeared in PTV show "SAAT Suron Ki Dunia" conducted by famous Pakistani musician Sohail Rana. Very recently in one of his interview I read that he is currently working in India on work visa just like lots of us worked in USA or middle east. India is a huge market and provides him better opportunity to showcase and sell his talent and that may be the only connection he has with India, this makes lots of professional sense to him to work with better equipped studios and professionals. Having said all above, let’s agree that to enjoy his talent we don't have to own him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.82.212.154 (talk) 07:19, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, Times of India, had reported, several months back, that he had acquired his Indian Citizenship. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 12:27, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Article corrections
As an ex-contributor to wikipedia i would like to request to edit the discussion page properly, because it is very hard to tell who is saying what. And as far as the matter of his nationality is concerned, leave it. Lets call him South-Asian musician born in Pakistan and based in India. < Anything wrong with this ?????
 * Yes. See the discussion in the previous section. Otheus 14:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I think my name was anmol ;). --220.227.141.28 14:02, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok i think i have done enough research on Adnan Sami, and i am back to the same old problem for which i left wikipedia, Its an encyclopedia and yet many people contributing to it like it is Yellow pages. And many articles like this one are wrapped in flags and religious symbol and people fight like children, this is encyclopedia. So let me point out my objection on this article,
 * "This article is part of WikiProject Pakistan which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Pakistan and Pakistan-related topics. "

So how is that this a Pakistan related topic ? So i will go ahead and make things right about this article. Any objections should be put forward in here and should be discussed in mature manner. --220.227.141.28 10:52, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * He was born in neither in Pakistan nor in India, but England.
 * His Father is Pakistani but Mother is Indian,
 * He have learnt classical music from both Indian and Pakistani people.
 * He is based in Mumbai, and caters to mostly if not only, Indian Music and Film Industry.'''
 * Yet this article is Pakistan related content.


 * Good work, Anmol. Thanks for your help and corrections to the article. For readability reasonsn, I reformatted your comments above. Otheus 14:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

and what about him being canadian??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.155.73 (talk) 09:47, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

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Assessment
As discussed above:
 * An info box is required (use template).
 * A photograph with the correct copyright is required.
 * The article needs rewriting in a more encyclopaedic tone.
 * Citations required.
 * Extensive discography required in form of table. Including playback songs by the singer.
 * The awards section could possibly be enhanced with a table with the awards Sami as received, which could be ordered with respect to time.
 * Issues regarding Adnan Sami's nationality, if they still arise should be resolved using a vote. As of now, I believe since he has not been given Indian nationality, and was born in Pakistan, he should be classed as a Pakistan as he is already recognised as by Indians too.
 * It is plausible to add WP India banner to the article, however, the article should remain a shared domain under WP Pakistan, India and Biographies.
 * History about the artist; before he moved to India, should be included in the article, for example, his contribution in Pakistani cinema and music industry.

I have classed the article as start class from a WP Pakistan stance as it only gives very little information about the artist. In order to improve the article, an example can be taken from the page on Noor Jehan, which is a good lay out in my opinion and will also help standardise content related to WP Pakistan. I hope this was helpful. Keep up to good work! SholeemGriffin (talk) 22:24, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I was at Rugby School with a boy called Adnan Sami Kahn. This would appear to be the the same individual. My recollection is that he was regarded as American or Canadian. He certainly had links with one or the other country. Another thing that puzzles me is that Sami was in my year at school, and in fact in the same house for three years. That would mean that he was born in 1969 or 1970. It is possible that he could be a little older or younger I don't recall. There is no way however that he could have been born in 1973. he left Rugby at 16 after taking his 'O' levels. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swimmer4146 (talk • contribs) 03:17, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

WP India assessment
Too many 1 line paras, tags for class B, so demoted to class C. Also this article contradicts itself: using "British-born" and "Pakistan-born" alternatively, a person can not be born in two countries.-- Redtigerxyz  Talk 16:07, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Did Adnan Sami has Eid song?
Did Adnan Sami has Eid song? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faridelhan (talk • contribs) 14:31, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

New section: "Exemplary weight loss" should be created
Since Adnan Sami lost his weight, he was in news for some time about that, and even before that, he was characterized by his obesity. Thus, I suggest that the information about his obesity, and the exemplary weight loss that followed, should be shifted to a new section. Abhinavdhere (talk) 13:48, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Flubbed copypastes
In these edits I've tried to fix some apparent flubbed copypaste edits and replace the flubs with cns. It looks like someone copied and pasted from a rendered article instead of copying and pasting wikitext in order to preserve Refs. For example, "the Santoor maestro in India.[15]" might have come from this earlier version of this article or a version fairly soon after that version. Somebody needs to go clean up the mess. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:17, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Changes by Vaibhav.times
Here, i will address what are the problems with the edits you are making. First of all, you are focusing on removing any reference to his past association with Pakistan. You are removing information about his father serving in Pakistan Airforce. This is called POV pushing when someone belonging to India comes to an article and starts removing whatever good they find about Pakistan. Now let's come to the edits and specific points about them:

1. Lead section should start with fuller form of his name which is "Adnan Sami Khan", please see WP:LEADSENTENCE for more information, here i will quote it for you: "While a commonly recognisable form of name will be used as the title of biographical articles, fuller forms of name may be used in the introduction to the lead. For instance, in the article Paul McCartney, the text of the lead begins: "Sir James Paul McCartney ..."."

2. You are removing the reference to his "Pakistani origin" and replacing it with "After living in India for sixteen years..." yes, he lived in India for sixteen years but that does not tell the reader that he has a Pakistani origin and he lived in Pakistan as well. Chicago Tribune source later in the article does mention his Pakistani origin so you are removing properly sourced information and replacing it with your POV version.

3. Next, you are replacing "Pakistani and Indian ancestry" with "Afghan and Indian ancestry", not sure what's your logic behind it if not an anti-Pakistan POV pushing while India Times source does attest to his Pakistani ancestry.

4. Then, you are removing information about his father working in Pakistan Airforce alongside the source, how do you explain that?

5. Where are you getting 1969 as his birthday year while most websites online claim it is 1973 and Deccan Chronicle article says he celebrated his 42nd birthday in 2015 which makes it 1973?

Lastly, i will request you to revert yourself and seek consensus here.  Sh eri ff  |  ☎ 911  | 13:54, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

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Adnan's father
The source says "My father was originally from Afghanistan and moved to Peshawar. My father served as Pakistan's ambassador to 14 countries".

Nobody can become another country's ambassador before becoming its citizen. That's a given. There is a source also saying that his father served in Pakistan Airforce? Do you think Pakistanis were crazy to induct a non-citizen in their airforce. Did you ever see something like this happening before? Even if he served one year as ambassador to each of those 14 countries, it makes a total of 14 years. Do you think he was non-citizen for that many years but served Pakistan? Was his father crazy or Pakistan? Be reasonable dude!  Sh eri ff  |  ☎ 911  | 09:03, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree with you completely what you are saying is excatly the same i was trying to tell you but only difference is that you are hell bound to prove your point whereas my point was that his father is from Afghanistan and then migrated to Pakistan and got the citizenship. My point is that when you are saying that his father was Pakistani is wrong rather he become Pakistani after migration so we should just be limited to his descent rather than Citizenship. If that is the case then once a person become citizen of some other country his decent should also change ? according to your logic? please think what you say dude. See i am not fighting for any country specific but for logic. If we go by your logic then why you were stuck on adding Adnan Sami Khan is a Mumbai-based Indian singer, musician, actor and pianist of Pakistani descent, in opening line of his intro. He has got an Indian citizenship and his decent should also change then. Lets not argue on irrelevant things and i have proved my point and also hope good faith prevail here.vaibhavthedestroyer--- 11:42, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Adnan Sami Descent
It seems that you want to plaster Pakistani Descent of his on every nook and corner of this page. There is no source mentioning his pakistani decent alone. If you need to mention his descent then mention all three pakistani, indian and afgan as mentioned in 2 nd paragraph. I can't let it be just Pakistani which he is not. It is just an attempt to put across your edit. Same you did in Adnan's father saying him pakistani and on my protest added Afgan Descent. It is an attempt to put whatever you wish to. Even on the top of this talk page it was clearly justified that he is not alone of Pakistani decent but of Afgan as well as Indian. vaibhavthedestroyer--- 14:02, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Descent means the origin or background of a person in terms of family or nationality. And according to sources, first he was born in England and his father was of Afgan decent, secondly Adnan has Canadian Citizenship before Pakistani so he can't be of one descent. Either all should be added or nothing. For Your information. Just research a bit.vaibhavthedestroyer--- 14:15, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
 * In line citation from the source you removed, "British-born 39-year old Sami is of Pakistani origin, currently holds Canadian citizenship, and lives in Mumbai, India."
 * We don't go by personal preferences of editors, all I can see is that you are removing the sourced content along with the source and the source clearly says "Pakistani origin". It was there for a long time before you removed it around the end of December or beginning of January and was challenged again and again by me. The responsibility to seek consensus is on the editor who is introducing the change. Once you get challenged for your change, you seek consensus. You are violating four policies here. WP:RS, WP:CONSENSUS, WP:Edit warring and removing a sourced content with its source amounts to WP:VANDALISM.  Sh eri ff  |  ☎ 911  | 14:50, 28 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I haven't removed any source, first there was no source and secondly check the archeive precisely before June 2015 and since the page was started . Itr was some people like you who tried to plaster his orgin as Pakistani. Please refer to Archeives saying that i started removing source. It was not sourced but because of this every other news story and website which take refence from wikipedia start mentioning the wrong fact. I'm not violiating any policy where as you are pusing POV on thsi pagevaibhavthedestroyer--- 14:56, 28 January 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vaibhav.times (talk • contribs)
 * Dude, start thinking before talking, there is a named ref next to the text which you removed and its Chicago Tribune hence your claim that every news source taking content from Wikipedia. I am sure "Chicago Tribune" will be surprised to hear that.  Sh eri ff  |  ☎ 911  | 15:02, 28 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I Actually think what i say, You are again hell bound to prove that you are right. i can give you several reference where his orgin is mentioned as Canadian and Indian as well as Afgani. You are just trying to put source which suits you and i am of a point that when we have already added everything in 2nd paragraph why you are so firm to add Pakistani in opening line?? without any motive or reason? and that too being Pakistani?? Why not Indian-Pakistani Descent? When his mother was Indian and Father Pakistani???vaibhavthedestroyer--- 15:08, 28 January 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vaibhav.times (talk • contribs)

Here are two links which you should read before commenting which justifies my claim: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/music/news/Adnan-Sami-likely-to-be-granted-Indian-citizenship/articleshow/49517242.cms and http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/celebs/Adnan-Sami-holds-a-Canadian-passport/videoshow/49537092.cms vaibhavthedestroyer--- 15:29, 28 January 2016 (UTC) talk|'''
 * You are trying to imply WP:SYNTH here which we cannot do while we have a source which specifically says "Pakistani origin" about him, i suggest you review WP:SYNTH, here it is quoted below for you for your convenience:


 * "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. Similarly, do not combine different parts of one source to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source. If one reliable source says A, and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C that is not mentioned by either of the sources. This would be improper editorial synthesis of published material to imply a new conclusion, which is original research performed by an editor here.[9] "A and B, therefore C" is acceptable only if a reliable source has published the same argument in relation to the topic of the article. If a single source says "A" in one context, and "B" in another, without connecting them, and does not provide an argument of "therefore C", then "therefore C" cannot be used in any article."  Sh eri ff  |  ☎ 911  | 17:18, 28 January 2016 (UTC)


 * You are doing the same again, First Why you think that mentioning him Pakistani or Indian Descent is important in opening line, whereas it is already mentioned about him in second paragraph. Secondly there is no logic what you are saying, I Accept you are saying A and i am saying B but u cannot force to use A, So best is we should not use anything, which we are not rather than getting into arguement.1.23.105.129 (talk) 02:17, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * My issue here is that you are removing sourced information along with its source and adding unsourced information such as the instruments you added. All of them are unsourced. You got to source them as well. You cannot just remove sourced information and keep adding unsourced stuff as it pleases you.  Sh eri ff  |  ☎ 911  | 03:23, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

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Nationality in lead
The lead here is a bit of a magnet for insertions proclaiming him to be "an Indian singer", "a Pakistani singer", or occasionally "a British singer". I consistently remove these and I thought I'd better write about it here. His nationality is a complex subject, since he was born in Britain to one Indian and one Pakistani parent, grew up and was educated to degree level in Britain, and has lived in and been a citizen of both India and Pakistan (and presumably is or was also a UK citizen).

This is a suitable subject to describe at length in the body of the article. It is not remotely sensible to try and summarise it with one word in the lead, and none of the three candidate words even attempts to do so. Pinkbeast (talk) 16:15, 12 April 2019 (UTC)


 * He is a naturalized citizen of India at present, as sourced in the personal life section. That should be reflected in the lead sentence. Source: Article published just 44 minutes ago from time of me writing this. If he changes his citizenship at some point later, the same should be updated with a reliable source. DeluxeVegan (talk) 13:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Regardless of where his father was born (as mentioned in the news article cited above by DeluxeVegan) or his current citizenship, the history of Adnan Sami's nationality is clearly a complex story involving multiple countries, as described in the article's "Early life and education" section. The lead sentence is simply supposed to be a clear, quick summary of the subject's most notable aspects (in this case, his music career). I agree with Pinkbeast that there is no way to adequately or accurately summarize the subject of this person's nationality in one word, and that attempts to label him as solely "Indian" or "Pakistani" or "British" misleadingly omit other, equally significant parts of the story. In cases like this, it would be most appropriate to save the synopsis of his nationality for where there's room for accuracy and completeness, in the body of the article. AtticusX (talk) 20:48, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ. The lead sentence should identify the subject's nationality per MOS:ETHNICITY: "In most modern-day cases this will be the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident... Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability". This is exactly the case here. I see no reason to make an exception for Sami simply because he has held different nationalities at different points of time. DeluxeVegan (talk) 22:54, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Adnan Sami's birthplace
Adnan Sami's birthplace is mentioned as London while at some places it is Lahore and is mentioned as "Lahore-born". I wanted to change but thought first it should be discussed. uSaamo 12:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)


 * My apologies, I saw the article come up on Special:PendingChanges and there was this edit awaiting approval. When I began checking the rest of the article and the references to see if the pending edit was correct, I found that the sources listed for being born in London didn't support such, and multiple other sources supported him being born in Pakistan, with one specifying Lahore, so I updated the article to match the sources. I didn't realize a conversation had begun here about it, and wasn't trying to preempt a discussion.That said, I see above that 12 years ago, several editors claimed there were sources for being born in London but I don't see any links to actual sources in the discussion to support London. This many years later, we'd need a seriously reliable source for POB London as second-tier and third-tier websites are likely to have gotten their info from Wikipedia. Schazjmd   (talk)  19:19, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Removed ref
I removed a ref used to support that he was born in London, however the book calls him "Pakistani-born" and makes no mention of London. The other sentence the ref was used for had no connection to any text in the book either. Leaving the ref here in case anyone wants to use it for anything else: Kamini Mathai A.R. Rahman: The Musical Storm, 2009, Penguin Books India, isbn 9780670083718, page 91. Schazjmd  (talk)  18:38, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Great
60 116.193.137.247 (talk) 11:15, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2023
Kannada song 117.193.109.62 (talk) 06:37, 8 February 2023 (UTC) Nene Neene   Khusi khusiyagiKhushi KhushiyagiBold text