Talk:Adrian Scrope

Adrian Scrope's descendants are unknown
Adrian Scrope's descendants are unknown. It is not even certain how he fits into the Scrope family genealogy (Burke's Landed Gentry 1965 edition and one family website, speculate that he was "Adrian Scrope - born about 12 January, 1600; believed to be the regicide, Col. Adrian Scrope, whose signature is on the death warrant of King Charles". This Adrian was the eldest son of Robert Scrope of Wormesley (b. 1569, himself the eldest son of Adrian Scrope, of Hambleden, co Bucks. The elder Adrian was a younger brother of the Henry Scrope of Spennithorne who was ancestor of the present Scropes of Danby. The possible regicide's sister Anne married her second cousin Henry Scrope of Danby (1605-1642) as his second wife, but the current representation is through her brother-in-law Simon Scrope (1615-1691).) Many persons named Scroop or Throop today claim to be his descendants in the male line. It is not certain why his descendants should have fled to the Americas, however, when those of so many other regicides and Cromwell's own relations remained behind.


 * Mindian (talk)Look at the list of Regicides. You'll see that many of them fled England once Charles II regained the throne.  Many that did not were drawn and quartered.  Most rational people would avoid that fate. Mindian (talk) 19:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

The source of this contention is possibly this 90-page book which claims Throop descent from the regicide (and thus also Plantagenet ancestry):

Knudson, Evelyn Fish, Addison James Throop and Dan Addison Throop. (1943). William Throop and Adrian Scrope - The Family Tradition - History of the Scrope Family and the Barony of Bolton - Bolton Castle - Proceedings at the Trial of Adrian Scrope - The Regicides and the Ancestral Chart of Adrian Scrope, Research and Narrative by Evelyn Fish Knudson. By Addison James Throop and Dan Addison Throop, East St. Louis, Illinois. Privately Printed and published 1943 East St Louis, Illinois. 74-90 pages.


 * Mindian (talk)Descent from royalty and/or nobility is not that uncommon, particularly among colonial Americans. Many of the women marrying into the provable Throop line were descended of nobility/royalty so there would be no need to embellish the Throop genealogy.Mindian (talk) 19:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

A Google search failed to turn up any references to any sites other than non-genealogical sites. In the circumstances, I believe that the claims are those of "vanity genealogy" (seeking to establish famous or notorious ancestors), and are certainly not verifiable. The descent from the regicide may well be true, but this is not the place to attempt to prove that. wikibiohistory (talk) 20:57, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Deleted portion:


 * ==His son William==
 * One of Adrian Scrope's sons, William is thought to have come to North America where he changed his name to William Throope presumably to avoid retribution. William’s past and parentage is surrounded in controversy. Throope family tradition held by many branches of the family for generations has maintained William’s real name was Adrian [this should read "William"; see first sentence of this paragraph] Scrope, youngest son of Sir Adrian Scrope who was executed for regicide.  Sir Adrian Scrope is believed to have told his sons to flee the country. William’s will, dated 12 Jun 1704, begins “In the name and fear of God, Amen. I, William Throope, in ye County of Bristol, yeoman, in the sixty-seventh year of my age and being under some indisposition of body,......” If he was in his 67th year in 1704, he would have been born in 1637, pointing to him being the son of William and Isabell (Redshaw) Throope rather than Adrian Scrope. Adrian Scrope's father was Sir Robert Scrope.  Both Adrian and Robert are sometimes referred to with the name Scroope.  Some of William's descendants are referred to as Throop.

Why would his birth in 1637 make him the Throop's son and not Adrian Scrope's? There is no logic in your conclusion. If you had actually studied British History, you would know that many people collaborated in hiding and changing the identities of those in danger of execution at the hands of the State. It was very easy to do so in the 17th century. Also, oral tradition, whether it be in native or aboriginal cultures or within western cultures, is many times more reliable than written legacy.

Also, if every American election year we are told by Burke's peerage which candidate is going to win based on the percentage of royal blood in his/her veins, why is it so unbelievable that the Throops descended from the Scropes? Most American colonists of any standing were of noble/royal descent. There is no need for "vanity geneology."


 * ==Descendants==
 * Adrian Scrope has several notable descendants including Professor Charles W. Woodworth, General of the Army Douglas MacArthur, Medal of Honor winner Lieutenant General Arthur MacArthur, Jr., and California Institute of Technology benefactor Amos G. Throop.

Family
On the 18 July, I asked for a citation on the paragraph: "Adrian Scrope was the son of Sir Adrian Scrope of Hambleton and Mary Waller sister to Sir William Waller the soldier and Parliamentarian. Adrian Scrope occupied the Scrope mansion at Wormsley, Oxfordshire and was a member of the extended Scrope/Scroope family, members of which appear in four of Shakespeare's plays and whose descendants (in the female line, and through two illegitimate heiresses) retain private ownership of Bolton Castle in the Yorkshire Dales. Adrian Scrope was grandson of Adrian Scrope of Wormsley, who was (approximately) third son of John Scrope (d.1547) of Spenninthorne, Yorks, and Hambledon, Bucks, who was the younger son of the 6th Lord Scrope (c1468-1506) by Lady Elizabeth Percy daughter of Henry, 3rd Earl of Northumberland."

Since then two substantial edits have been made to the text in that section first by user:Dandanman, and second by user:Fanzoleeds, neither edit added a reliable source to the paragraph I have removed from the section.

All the information in the section comes from the ODNB and the DNB. Please supply reliable sources for any information added to the article. The website www.scroope.net is not a reliable source. -- PBS (talk) 01:50, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite
After updating this article, all of Adrian Scrope's children have been accounted for; his two eldest sons predeceased him and the third was a Bristol merchant who died in 1704. So the Throop claim doesn't seem to have any merit at this point. Robinvp11 (talk) 18:20, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Edited Section on Adrian's Children
Tonight I edited the section on Adrian's children, which was very incomplete, out of order, etc. I spent some time with the 1874 book, Joseph Foster's Pedigrees of the County Families of Yorkshire, which gives a handful of baptismal dates. Son Thomas, especially, was way further down the list; he was born fifth, not third. Births in that time period were, on average, no more than a week before the baptism.

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 * Charles I execution, and execution of regicides.jpg