Talk:Advance Australia Fair

Two "Eora" versions
One version from the Darug website, another reported in the papers. The orthography of the latter is pretty bad, but they're obviously completely different. Any idea what the history of this is? Has the first version ever been performed in a non-aboriginal context? — kwami (talk) 21:01, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * There are a couple of problems with the article's coverage of these indigenous-language versions of Advance Australia Fair:
 * The first sentence of the Dharawal lyrics section of the article mistakenly characterises Dharug as the language spoken by the Dharawal people. The Dharug and Dharawal are separate groups, each with their own language, although I believe the languages are thought to be so closely related that each was intelligible to the speakers of the other.
 * This Dharawal version is mistakenly quoted as the one performed by Corey Kirk at the third 2010 state of of origin NRL match. Kirk's performance was actually of this version, slightly shortened by omission of the first four-bar phrase "iyura marriyalabilya ngyina guulyangarri". Here's a YouTube clip of the performance. Judging from this newspaper report of the performance, Richard Green, the author of its lyrics, asserts that they're in the Dharug language.
 * A version reported as having been sung at the Wallabies vs Pumas rugby test on December 5, 2020, by Olivia Fox, is said by the article to be in the Dharug language. This may well be true, but neither of the cited sources says that. What they say is that it was sung in "Eora language" or "the language of the Eora nation".  For all I know, it may well be the case that Eora is the same as, or a dialectal variant of, Dharug, but my impression is that there is some dispute about this amongst the local descendants of these indigenous groups.


 * There are (at least) two other versions of Advance Australia Fair in this group of languages:
 * One version, Naluyan Australiagal, was written by Matthew Doyle for the children of the Soldiers’ Settlement School, Matraville, and published by the Australian Children's Music Foundation in 2016. Here's a YouTube clip of a performance of this version by children of that school. According to the ACMF's pamphlet describing this version, it's in "a combination of Dharawal and Dharug languages".
 * Another version, Barayabanyi Australiagal, was written by Jeremy Steele and published on his blog in 2016. The term "Biyal-Biyal", used by Steele to refer to the language of this version appears to be a synonym for "Eora".


 * There have been several other public performances of versions of Australia's national anthem in at least four other Australian indigenous languages: Luritja, Yugambeh, Pitjantjatjara, and Ngunnawal.
 * In 2010, a Luritja woman, Alison Anderson, and singer-song writer, Ted Egan, translated Advance Australia Fair into Luritja, and in 2011 published a kit of materials aimed at teaching the song to schoolchildren, and promoting the translation of Advance Australia Fair into other indigenous languages. According to an article in The Sydney Morning Herald in July 2011, the Australian Government committed funding of AU$130,000 to the distribution of 5,000 of these kits to schools across Australia.
 * The lyrics of the Yugambeh version can be obtained for free from the Yugambeh Museum website. It was performed at the 2011 NRL indigenous all stars match, on February 12, 2011 by students of the Aboriginal Centre for the Performing Arts. The NRL has made a video of the entire match, including the performance of the national anthem, accessible for free on its website.  You may need to register and set up an account to gain access, but this is free. Later that same year, on May 23, Tyrone Drahm and Alec Warner performed this version at the launch of the Dreamworld Reconciliation Action Plan (RAP). Here's a YouTube clip of their performance.
 * Here's a YouTube clip of the performance of a version in Pitjantjatjara on September 10, 2011.
 * According to the Canberra Times, the Gondwana Children's choir performed a version of the national anthem with a verse in Ngunnawal at Australia's Parliament House on September 6, 2017. Here's a YouTube clip of the Gondwana choirs performing this version of the anthem.  The Canberra Times's assertion that this was the first translation into Ngunnawal may not be accurate, however. Some time between 2005 and 2010 a singer performed a version of the national anthem purporting to contain a verse in Ngunnawal, at a public event in Canberra (either Skyfire or New Year's day festivities—I don't remember which).  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to track down the source where I saw this reported a year or two after it happened, or any other source which mentions it.
 * 2001:8004:1D72:7930:70B9:B0DC:42CE:9F7A (talk) 14:10, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Fair - what does it mean now, and what did it mean when the song was written?
When I look at http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/fair the definition of fair begins:

FAIR, adjective

1. Clear; free from spots; free from a dark hue; white; as a fair skin; a fair complexion. hence,

Recent definitions and use of "fair" has clearly changed and many people now intend it in an almost exactly opposite meaning. They intend to include all people of all colours. Surely, the intention of the original author is relevant, and also relevant is the intention of the current users of the song.

How should this be discussed or ignored in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2406:3400:311:5440:5F0:817E:7B1C:494F (talk) 03:04, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I have wondered the same thing myself. It's hard to get into the head of someone back in 1878. We cannot add anything without reliable sourcing, and I don't know where we would find anything to help. HiLo48 (talk) 03:33, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Peter Dodds McCormick also wrote another song, "Awake Awake Australia", with similar lyrics regularly using the term "Australia fair", http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/aaf/awake.html  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2406:3400:311:5440:64DE:38BE:D942:A4DF (talk) 21:29, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

From " How fair is fair? the colour of justice in Australias official anthem " https://journal.media-culture.org.au/mcjournal/article/view/1964

"This paper asks, very simply, what is the meaning of the word fair in the title and the song." and "This song is specifically about the civilising process, about the white man's burden, as it applied to this particular far-flung reach of empire." and "The progress of the white race over the continent is an advance" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2406:3400:311:5440:CC10:777E:73A1:E81B (talk) 22:37, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Wikionary gives the following among its definitions:
 * fair (archaic or literary): Beautiful, of a pleasing appearance, with a pure and fresh quality.
 * Monday's child is fair of face.
 * There was once a knight who wooed a fair young maid.

I'm sure he'd have been using a literary meaning. Hence, beautiful. A "fair young maid" could just as easily be a brunette as a blonde. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  07:15, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I expect that the best source for this would be the Oxford English Dictionary online edition, available through institutional libraries subscribing to it (I don't have such access at the moment). It gives literary and other examples. Errantius (talk) 08:18, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Lots of speculation here. I'll add my own. Maybe the word's meaning is related to that in a fair go. HiLo48 (talk) 08:52, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually both literary and your suggestion are correct. at least that's what he told my grandfather. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 17:29, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Rationale for “one and free”
User:AussieLegend

I disagree that it's at all clear what the rationale for changing “young” to “one” is. The official media release (https://www.pm.gov.au/media/australians-one-and-free) states that it was changed “for all Australians”.

“'During the past year we have showed once again the indomitable spirit of Australians and the united effort that has always enabled us to prevail as a nation. It is time to ensure this great unity is reflected more fully in our national anthem,' the Prime Minister said.”

A part of the reason may be to recognise Aboriginal history, but nothing suggests that it is intended only to recognise that. See: “Also, while Australia as a modern nation may be relatively young, our country’s story is ancient, as are the stories of the many First Nations peoples whose stewardship we rightly acknowledge and respect.” Steepleman (t) 07:40, 25 April 2021 (UTC)


 * As I indicated, the reason is everywhere on the internet. The wording of the PM's press release makes it clear that the change was made to be inclusive of Australian Aboriginals and everyone has accepted that as the reason. Ironically, Australia as a nation did not formally exist until only 120 years ago and even if you go back to the First Fleet when we were only a British colony, that's only 232 years ago, which is pretty young for a nation. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 08:01, 25 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The press release indicates that it is one reason (and your sources suggest that it is more recognising the history of Aboriginal people), but that was not the sole purported purpose. “It is time to ensure this great [united effort that has always enabled us to prevail as a nation] is reflected more fully in our national anthem.” Steepleman (t) 12:30, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The change was the result of an older proposal by the NSW Premier. If it was anything more than acknowledgement of the Aboriginal people, then "young and free" did not need to be changed as "young" still applied. The change to "one" was specifically to recognise that Aboriginal society is not young. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 12:47, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I thnk that a clarificatory ref was needed and have added the first of those suggested by AussieLegend. Errantius (talk) 13:34, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Key
Is the anthem usually sung in the key that's shown in the example? Some people can't sing that high. A lot of people can sing that high, too - but in my experience even most of those who can are reluctant to do so. TooManyFingers (talk) 12:37, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Questionable case of "influence"
I don't think it's fair or correct to say that the viceregal salute has been influenced by Advance Australia Fair, because it was either established custom or some type of regulation or law that dictated the inclusion of part of the country's national anthem in the salute. That is to say (at least as far as I can tell), when a viceregal salute is wanted, part of the home country's national anthem *will* be in there, that's simply how it's done. Its inclusion would therefore be expected and required, not a result of any influence from this particular anthem. TooManyFingers (talk) 13:01, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Lyrics
Hi peoples

I have had a look at the image on this page of Advance Australia Fair and I am pretty sure that the word ‘young’ has become ‘one’?. Anyway, if anyone could change it that would be great. Thanks! Someone764 (talk) 03:56, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the infobox image? That image is from an 1878 postcard so use of "young" is correct. Regardless, the words of Advance Australia Fair are as they were up to 1984. Only the words used as the National Anthem, which is a variant, are changed. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 08:27, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Oh ok thanks Someone764 (talk) 20:17, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

McFarlane Cowriter
It is commonly accepted that Advance Australia Fair was first published under the pen-name "Amicus", Latin for "Friend", and attributed to McCormick who later published under his own name. The decendents of John McFarlane passed down orally the story of John McFarlane, a teacher colleague of Peter Dodds McCormick, writing it together, with McFarlane penning the music and first verse.

https://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/mccormick-peter-dodds-7323

The wording implies clarity to who "friend" was at the first publishing, should that be less absolute in phrasing? Greg (talk) 20:52, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Sons vs All
Why does the lyric under The lyrics published in the second edition (1879) were as follows: say Australian's all, when the linked reference at says Australia's sons? Jmz668 (talk) 02:07, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the article's wording is correct, though it can take a careful reading see that. In 1879 the word "sons" was used, but it was changed to "all" in 1984, when it became the national anthem. HiLo48 (talk) 03:52, 6 June 2024 (UTC)