Talk:Advent/Archive 1

Comments
When is it advent? This year the fourth sunday in december is the 24th. Is this the 4. advent sunaday as well ? (Anonymouns wikipedia user)


 * December 24 can be the Fourth Sunday of Advent, so yes. Christmas Eve doesn't actually start until sunset.


 * An easy way to know when it starts is that Advent is always the Sunday closest to November 30 - the Feast of St. Andrew, who is called "The First-Called Apostle." Carlo (talk) 22:46, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Reply
Advent Can start on 3 different dates, advent Sunday always being the closest one to the 30th of November. Its depends whether its year A,B,or C. There are four sundays celebrating advent,the fifth is Christmas sunday. hannah (talk) 09:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Why is this under season of advent rather than simply under advent? Michael Hardy 22:51, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)


 * Does anyone fancy working on WikiProject Christian liturgical year? Gareth Hughes 10:53, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"In the Roman Catholic Church, Advent begins on the fourth Sunday before Christmas..." Wouldn't it be better to say: "In the Western Church, Advent begins on the fourth Sunday before Christmas" here? Advent is observed in churches (Anglican, Lutheran, many Methodist churches among them) other than the Roman Catholic Church and it begins within those other churches on the fourth Sunday before Christmas. User:Grumpykansan 10:36, 4 Nov 2005

"A few non-liturgical Christians, or Catholics for whom different coloured candles are unavailable, use red candles for the four Sundays." Its actually very traditional to use red candles in Germany, at home as well as in church. People do use other colours (purple, blue, rose or wahtever), bur for simple reasons of style and taste ("Matches my curtains"). Coming from a lutheran protestant church, I don´t really know if its the same in the catholic church - although all my catholic friends have red-candle-wreaths. Coming to the point: The candle-colour is definitely not bound to the question wether the church follows a liturgy or not. At least not everywhere.

At our (anglican) church we use four 3 purple candles 1 pink (goudete Sunday) and a white one (Christmas day). hannah (talk) 09:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Advent themes
Why is there nothing in the article about the themes of advent?216.21.142.16 21:39, 15 September 2005 (UTC)Steve J. 14:40 Sept.15, 05

Has anyone found a bond between Advent and John the Baptist? John the Baptist gave us a pathway out of the wilderness through a baptism of repentance. He revealed the universal alternative, the One who would baptize with the Holy Spirit. What does this have in common with Advent? Mike81859 04:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Traditionally, John the Baptist features prominently in the gospel readings, hymns and prayers of Advent. His Advent role is that of forerunner, preparing the way for the Messiah. This ties in also with the focus on the baptism of Jesus celebrated in Epiphany. --Gareth Hughes 17:56, 7 December 2005 (UTC)]]

Well, Advent is a time of preparation and penitence, and J the B is known for "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!" Which is tailor-made for Advent. (unsigned User:Cfortunato)

Those pages have so much they got linkspammed everywhere! Dominick (TALK) 18:00, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

How universal is the order of the themes of Advent? From looking at the advent related pages, there seems to be a statement of the same order every year, universally followed. Yet, this isn't always true. for example. Community of Christ advent 2006 Year C advent theme order is Peace, Hope, Love, Joy. For Advent 2005, Year B it was Hope, Peace, Joy, Love,and next year, Year A 2007, it will be Peace, Hope, Joy, Love. Is Community of Christ unique in the order changing or are their other Christian tradtions which use a different order?

Sarum rite colors
The part about blue coming from the Sarum rite appears to be false:

http://cantuar.blogspot.com/2005/12/liturgical-colors-in-sarum-rite.html

The Sarum Rite color for Advent was black, not blue.]]

The confusion comes from the fact that the color is called "Sarum Blue." But WHY is it called Sarum Blue? Supposedly, it originated in Salisbury Cathedral, and Salisbury's ancient name was "Sarum." It's still called that. It's also the tradition color in the West of the garb of the Virgin Mary (She wears red in Eastern Art - and odd distinction between Eastern and Western Christianity.) (unsigned User:Cfortunato)

added signature Dominick (TALK) 14:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

The cantuar.blogspot.com article (Fr. Taylor Marshall) is mistaken in equating the Use of Lichfield with that of Sarum. I covered the issue here: http://orthodox-okie.blogspot.com/2005/12/sarum-blue-and-advent.html   The Sarum Rite color for Advent was violet, which in terms of Medieval terminology is what we would call a 'dark blue' today. Black was also the Advent color for York, however - there was not a uniformity of Uses, and Sarum did not follow that of Lichfield or York, and it was Sarum's use that came to preeminence over the British Empire. Aristibule 08:05, 11 January 2006.

Fish Eaters
How can links to Fish Eaters be "spam"? americancatholic.org - run by St. Anthony Messenger Press, a private company -- is linked to repeatedly. (Same with catholic.com, another private company) Wikipedia is their second biggest referrer according to Alexa (same with catholic.com). Where else will you get the information at the Lent section of that site you keep taking down? What is the deal here? Traditional Catholics are the ones who INVENTED Advent! Malachias111 14:38, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

________________

I completely agree with Malachias, and I'm the sort of liberal he probably wouldn't have much use for. :). Fish Eaters is not just a legitimate site - it's a major liturgical resource.  It's not spam.  User: cfortunato


 * Fisheaters has been prolifically linkspammed into Wikipedia. Before Christmas I removed it from over a hundred articles.  As far as I can tell it has no provable authority.  I asked about that on the traditionalist catholic article and got lots of arm-waving and no hard evidence - I am ill-disposed to give linkspammers a free pass, especially since the "one or two" areticles which some suggested might be appropriate has once again as of this evening turned into rather a lot more than one or two.  The "traditionalist catholic" viewpoint is pretty much 100% irrelevant to a general article on Advent. Malachias knows my view on all this. - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] [[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg|25px|  ]] AfD? 01:20, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The Fish Eaters pages on Advent should definitely be added. As cfortunato said, Fish Eaters is a major liturgical resource and information can be found there that can't be found anywhere else. I am not buying this "spam" bit from JzG. 66.235.22.204 (talk) 15:32, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

This had pornographic comments put on it.
I deleted the comments but I do not know if anything was deleted from the article by the offending party. Could someone please check and make sure that all of the information on Advent is still here?vashsunglasses 02:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I just deleted a bunch of vandalism. Maybe this article should be marked as protected from vandalism, since this is obviously the second time its happened? Fruit Blender 15:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Correction
Christians today endure as they await the second coming of Jesus. has been changed to 'Christ' -- seeing as Christians are not waiting for 'Jesus of Nazareth' to return. They are waiting for The Christ. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nalco (talk • contribs) 22:10, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Help!
I cannot edit The page Concerning 'Advent' because i am a new user when will i be able to? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hanjay09 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's usually about three or four days. What edit would you like to make? —Angr If you've written a quality article... 05:03, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I would like to add about some of the hymns sung in advent my account has been used for more than four days..--hannah (talk) 13:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The protection was due to expire in a few hours from now anyway, so I took it off early. Happy editing, and be sure to cite your sources so that everything you add is verifiable as not being original research! —Angr If you've written a quality article... 14:02, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

"Waiting for the Messiah" in the past tense
Article currently reads: "Latin adventus is the translation of the Greek word parousia, commonly used in reference to the Second Coming. Christians believe that the season of Advent serves a dual reminder of the original waiting that was done by the Hebrews for the birth of their Messiah as well as the waiting that Christians today endure as they await the second coming of Christ." As it stands, this is IMHO arguably POV in the phrasing "the original waiting that was done by the Hebrews for the birth of their Messiah" (i.e., something in the past tense.) (Many) Jews in the centuries after Jesus continued to wait for the coming of Mashiach, and many continue to do so today (see Messiah, Jewish messianism, Judaism's view of Jesus). Therefore, I question whether the past tense is appropriate here. -- Writtenonsand (talk) 20:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Troll attack
Maybe it's the time of year, but this innocent little page seems to be suffering from the persistent attention of a bunch of idiots (or one idiot operating from a bunch of IPs). I think it might be a good idea to protect it for a bit, till they get tired and go and play elsewhere. Does anyone object, i.e. is anyone planning doing any serious editing here in the next few days/weeks? seglea (talk) 22:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No-one protested, so I have put light protection on. seglea (talk) 13:38, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm writing a composition on the Advent season and need some fresh idea on what to write about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.141.114.200 (talk) 00:36, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It depends what sort of thing you want, but for a wide range of Christian resources, try The Text This Week at  seglea (talk) 21:48, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Dark Blue for Advent in the Anglican Communion
I think the main article is slightly off in its assertion that dark blue is the liturgical color for the Advent season within the churches of the Anglican Communion. The Ordo Kalendar on my wall definitely shows violet for Advent, and most Episcopal Churches in the U.S. still use violet as they have done for many years. On the back of the Kalendar, in the subsection "The Liturgical Colors," one reads that violet, symbolic of penitence and expectatation, is used in the seasons of Advent and Lent. Rose, for penitence permeated with joy, may be used on the Third Sunday of Advent and the Fourth Sunday in Lent. Blue, in the lighter shades, is sometimes used on feasts of the Blessed Virgin, but in the darker shades of indigo, blue is frequently used during Advent. The dark Sarum Blue for Advent is an optional color and, to date, I would venture to say that violet is used during Advent far more frequently than dark blue, at least in the U.S.A. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ToddABearSF (talk • contribs) 06:33, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

According to the Book of Common Prayer, both purple and blue are valid colors for Advent. I know my church uses blue for Advent, saving purple for Lent. It's not really important which color is used more because both are approved. Prtwhitley (talk) 05:46, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

History
It would be helpful to have a brief history of the development of Advent in this article. There is a nice summary available for copying at the Catholic Encyclopedia. I propose to insert it into the article. Rwflammang (talk) 20:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Copying = plagarism. If you would like to add this information, you would need to paraphrase, that is, rewrite in your own words and then cite the source. Prtwhitley (talk) 05:47, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Copying certainly is not the same thing as plagiarism. The Catholic Encyclopedia is public domain. I will do as I proposed when I have some time. Rwflammang (talk) 13:10, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's advisable to copy. It would be better to use it as a source and create a summary instead. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:23, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Only on wikipedia would someone try to argue that Advent is not a Latin loanword
Advent is of course a Latin loanword, those that don't know this really shouldn't be editing an encyclopedia. Hence, I added Category:Latin loanwords here. User:Walter Görlitz then reverted me with the explanation that "technically not a loan word when the English word is "Advent" and the Lating is "Adventus" Stadium is a loan word". Walter is apparently unaware that most loanwords in English have their spelling modified, see Anglicized for details if you don't know this already. I restored the category with the explanation that "restore, it's an anglicized Latin loanword". I assumed Walter would actually read the link to anglicized but I guess that's too much to ask. Walter then again reverted my edit accusing me of "Original Research" as such: "Undid revision 471194711 by 75.14.223.243 (talk) WP:OR". Naturally, the claim that Advent is an anglicized Latin loanword is hardly original research, so I restored the category with the explanation: "restore, it's not original research that Advent is the anglicized form of Latin adventus, the Engish word is "Coming" as in Second Coming of Jesus". Walter then accused me of "unhelpful edits" on my talk page. So what's the solution? Two categories: "Latin loanwords with the same spelling in English" and "Latin loanwords with anglicized spellings"? 75.14.223.243 (talk) 21:51, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The definition of a loanword is "a word taken from one language and used in another" and in my history, mostly with German and romance languages, the words are taken without any changes. The Latin loanword I used an an example was stadium. That's a direct loan. This Latin word changed significantly. I take the word to be one of Latin origin, but not a loanword.
 * Your edits were unhelpful. WP:BRD indicates that a discussion should be undertaken rather than just pushing your point. You were at the WP:3RR limit so I didn't want to push it. Also your pedantic nature is unhelpful. Don't assume that I'm ignorant and wikilink to common words. Worst case, I could look up a word with which I'm unfamiliar. Granted, I could have started this discussion after your second edit, and so I am culpable in that area. (see how many words with Latin roots I can use that I know are not loanwords?)
 * In short, sorry if I caused you consternation, but you're an uncooperative editor, and I look forward to you getting a user account so discussions can be carried on without the constant shift in IPs. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:12, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * List of Latin words with English derivatives may be be a better avenue to explore, or even Latin influence in English. The category is non-starter, especially when the same anon has been running around adding it to articles where it may not be appropriate. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * In reference to our behaviour, I point to Assume clue. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:03, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Still needs more references
There are entire paragraphs that are unreferenced. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:28, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Roman Catholic color for advent is not blue
For the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, blue is not an option for Advent. According to The General Instruction of the Roman Missal (the Vatican document that governs liturgical colors among many other liturgical matters): "The color violet or purple is used in Advent and Lent." (#346.d) The color blue is not given as an option for any liturgical occasion.XChuckr (talk) 17:54, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You should add that information. It may be that blue is the colour in another tradition. Tag that colour as needing a reference. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:26, 14 February 2013 (UTC)