Talk:Advent wreath

Untitled
The season of advent prepares us for the coming of Christ, by lighting the candles we recognize that Christ is the light of the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.66.241.155 (talk) 20:35, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I rewrote this page for form, clarity, and to remove redundancies. I also removed the sentence “Increasingly, due to changes in the Roman Catholic Church's lectionary in the United States, all four candles may be violet.” as I could not find any support for the statement. Either pink or purple vestments were allowed for Gaudete Sunday before the Second Vatican Council, when the lectionary changes began. If anyone has a reference for that statement, please restore it. MacPhilbin (talk) 00:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

history
Here are two links (sorry in German) http://www.rauhes-haus.de/stiftung/geschichte/ and http://www.engelchen.de/advent/kranz.htm By the way if the history requires footnotes, than the symbolic part requires footnotes, too - Citius Altius Fortius (talk) 05:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Needs footnotes! --Cajuntx (talk) 05:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I have added the history of the advent wreath Citius Altius Fortius (talk) 20:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

The first violet candle is known as the “Prophets” candle and symbolizes the hope that Old Testament Jews had that a Messiah would one day come. The	second violet candle is the “Bethlehem” candle and represents the peace that the new God/Man savior would bring, ending the long spiritual rift between God and mankind. The rose candle is the “angel’s” candle (or in some traditions, the “Mary” candle) it symbolizes the joy of Heaven that a Savior was finally to be born. The last violet candle is the “Shepherds’” candle and represents the love or adoration of those ready to accept the gift of the Christ child. The large white candle in the center, often lit on Christmas or Christmas Eve is the “Christ Candle” and represents Jesus as the “Light of the world,” or the Epiphany, God on Earth.

The wreath is meant to represent God's eternity. It is a circle, which has no beginning and no end. Pine is used because it is "evergreen," also representing eternal life. However, the wreath is also forshadowing of Christ's passion. Pine needles and/or holly leaves represent the crown of thorns and holly berries and/or pointsettia flowers represent the blood He shed on the cross.

candle colors
actually I think that advent candle colors range from blue-violet, not just for anglicans, but catholics, and protestants too. I believe it just depends on what you buy, or what's available.


 * Yes and no. Blue is officially an alternate liturgical colour for Anglicans during Advent, deriving from the Sarum Rite. Officially, Roman Catholics use violet as a liturgical colour during Advent (except for the Third Sunday). This is less an issue for most Protestants. But in one's home, one can do whatever one wishes.Rockhopper10r 05:56, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

The article states: "Typically, three of the candles are violet-coloured, and one is rose-coloured. Increasingly, due to changes in the Church's lectionary in the United States, all four candles may be violet." What is the basis for this assertion? I thought the third candle was always pink/rose.


 * Accoring to page 260 of the United Methodist Book of Worship, "Some traditions use the color rose on the Third Sunday of Advent and for this reason usee three purple candles and one rose candle. United Methodists, however, encourage purple for the whole season of Advent and therefore use four purple candles."

Community of Christ, headquartered in the US, it will very from congregation to congregation, however from the offical worship resources published each year "There is no universal tradition for the color and names of the four candles in the wreath. Three purple or blue candles can be used to symbolize the expectant hope of Advent and a rose candle to represent rejoicing that Christ is coming soon. A white candle is often used for the Christ candle in the center." On this note though, Community of Christ does differ from the 3rd Sunday always being the "rose" candle, as the themes for advent very from year to year. For example Advent 2005 Year B the order was: Hope, Peace, Joy, Love. This year, Advent 2006 Year C, the order is Peace, Hope, Love, Joy, and for Advent 2007 Year A, it will be Peace, Hope, Joy, Love. Thus Last year and next it will be the ninth sunday but this year it will be the forth Sunday for Community of Christ congregations and families that choose to use a different colour for Joy. Is the changing of themes unique to Community of Christ?


 * Not unique to the Community of Christ. These themes are of fairly recent vintage. In the UCC Book of Worship the order is "hope, peace, love, joy." But the order of the last two has been reversed in many wreath-lighting services I've seen online. The reason for this, I assume, is the growing use of the third, rose candle adapted from the Roman Catholic liturgical color for the Third Sunday of Advent, called "Gaudete Sunday" after the Introit which begins with "Gaudete" ("Rejoice"). Since the theme is joy in anticipation of Christ's birth, it's appropriate that the word "joy" be used when lighting the rose-colored candle on the Third Sunday. --langohio (talk) 19:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I know this discussion is eight years old, but I, living in Protestant Northern Germany, have never seen an Adventskranz with differently coloured candles, either in churches or private homes. The candles used in churches are either red or white, or made of natural bee wax. Colours of private Adventskränze are often chosen to agree with the style of the home, but still bee wax and red seem to be the most popular. I suspect the above mentioned custom of different colours is a fake - no sources are mentioned. 2003:DF:3BC5:9A00:69E1:2A09:668C:5D9B (talk) 01:26, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You're both right and wrong. I too celebrate in the Northern German way: red candles only. However there are many sources for other colours. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:09, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Speculative interpretations
I have removed the following addition:
 * "The moderne tradition is possibly inspired by the Jewish ritual of Hanukiah lighting during early winter also as well as Germanic paganist winter rituals involving fire."

There's nothing inherently inappropriate about this, but it's entirely unsourced and reads as though it is simply speculation, or at best personal research. If it can be sourced, it should go back in.

As the tag currently on the page notes, quite a lot of what's in this article needs sourcing, but most of it is at least recognizable as widely held, whereas this isn't. seglea (talk) 22:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Seglea will light the candle. Seglea lit the candle. The candle was lighted by Seglea. The candle is lighted.24.13.194.152 (talk) 22:58, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Greetings
Greetings, the reason that I replaced the image is because the original one did not have all five candles. The article talks about the Christ Candle but did not show that image. I moved the image with the red candles to a lower section. I've changed it back and would be glad to clarify any doubts you might have. PFAStudent (talk) 23:15, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The reason I removed the image is because it's not very good. It's got a bad camera angle and the wreath itself is underexposed. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:19, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The fact that the fifth candle is a liturgical addition and not part of traditional wreaths is a separate issue. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:21, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, this article does discuss the Christ Candle so it would be nice if we could show a picture of a wreath containing the candle. How about this image? Will that work? PFAStudent (talk) 23:23, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It certainly does discuss it and if a good picture can be found, we should replace one of the existing images. The one you suggest ha better lighting but the composition isn't better. The candle at the back left is somewhat obscured and the flag may be offensive to some. Focus is also a bit soft in that image. Do you see how the existing images are all from above the wreaths they represent? It shows the shape and symmetry. If you were to stand on the pew to the left of the wreath and shoot down, that would be a better angle. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:27, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Would you mind using this one then? PFAStudent (talk) 23:29, 5 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Better for the wreath. Suffers again from composition in that the candles are cropped and one candle is obscured by the centre candle. The tree in the background is a very nice addition! It's also a bit small. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:38, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the tree does make a nice addition. So you're not going to let me add any of these pictures to the article? Could you add it in for now and if I find a better one later post it here? PFAStudent (talk) 23:41, 5 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I would remove them, but other editors may find them better. Shall we wait to see what they think? They may say I'm making too much of it. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:45, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay, sounds good. PFAStudent (talk) 23:46, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Number of candles
What is the source for the 19 red candles mentioned in the text? The illustration shows 4 sets of 6 weekdays for a total of 24. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.90.175.250 (talk) 20:44, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The statement is from the original Johann Hinrich Wichern wreath. It should be referenced. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:27, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

20 small candles?
The text says four large and twenty small candles but the picture apparently shows six small candles for each week, which is not twenty by any means. Pavlix (talk) 17:58, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

meanings of Advent
This is misleading: "In Medieval times Advent was a fast during which people's thoughts were directed to the expected second coming of Christ; but in modern times it has been seen as the lead up to Christmas, and in that context Advent Wreath serves as a reminder of the approach of the feast." In fact, it has long been both, since before the Middle Ages, and remains both today. ChrisMcConnell (talk) 05:51, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It is not "a fast" today anymore for Western-rite Catholics. They may laudably fast as fitting to the season, but that and being "a fast" as one officially celebrated by the Church is a different thing.--2001:A61:20E3:7501:A474:AAFF:3A6:BF8F (talk) 00:15, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 06:46, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Christian vs Protestant
Although the Advent wreath is now used by many denominations in the Christian faith, it was originally developed by the Protestant Lutherans and forms part of the protestant tradition first. It is not incorrect to say that it is a Christian tradition but more insight is given by specifically referring to its protestant origins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deanerasmus2006 (talk • contribs) 10:32, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
 * It is a Christian tradition, not just a protestant one. It is not correct to claim it for only protestants. I reverted your change to the lede especially since it incorrectly marked Protestant in bold (see WP:LEADSENTENCE and MOS:BOLD) and changed the WP:LANGVAR. The second sentence makes it clear it started in a protestant denomination. I see you made the same change in December 2017. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:20, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for correcting my incorrectly marked Protestant naming in bold, please see my first comments around the Advent wreath being a Lutheran innovation as seen in referenced source 3 in the article Insisting on giving it a blanket Christian attribution is misleading as it is not something that Christians hold in common.--Deanerasmus2006 (talk) 19:58, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The fact that it was started in the Lutheran church is stated in the second sentence.
 * It does not change the fact that there are few denominational barriers to the use of the wreath today. It can be found in most Western Churches and their followers. It is in no way misleading. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:02, 22 May 2019 (UTC)