Talk:Adversary system

Peter Murphy Hi, I'm new to Wiki so I don't know how to solve the problem myself, but I thought I'd bring it to your attention that the 'Peter Murphy' link points to a page on the rock musician, not the legal scholar or whoever he was. 01:50, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

hello fellow potential barristers. my name is monique and my goal is to become a defence barrister one day in the near future. i would really like to say thank you to wikipedia for their hard work in presenting this website. it has been of great assistance to me in researching the adversary system. nevertheless, i look forward to contributing to this website once i have built a strong knowledge on the Australian legal system.

What does this mean? Nonetheless, the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms implies in Article 6 an adversarial process, although it is more extensively used on the continent of Europe.

The inquisitorial system is the one extensively used in continental Europe. It is not clear to me that Article 6 implies one system or another:

In the determination of his civil rights and obligations or of any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law. -- The "impartial tribunal" sounds like an inquisitorial court.

Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law. -- Necessary for adversarial system, but not precluded by inquisitorial system.

to defend himself in person or through legal assistance of his own choosing or, if he has not sufficient means to pay for legal assistance, to be given it free when the interests of justice so require; -- Implies adversarial, but could be part of inquisitorial process

to examine or have examined witnesses against him and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against him; -- Implies adversarial, but could be part of inquisitorial process

It seems to me that Article 6 is compatible with both systems. It would surprise me if it was not, as both systems are used in Europe and obviously deemed compatible with the declaration. -- Chris Q 10:04 Mar 17, 2003 (UTC)


 * About the legal counsel: England did not allow legal counsel in felony trials before 1836, while the Napoleonic Code of Criminal Procedures allowed counsel, and made it compulsory for the court to appoint an attorney if the defendant did not have one. From this, it would seem that the right to counsel is more of a civil law tradition.


 * I note also that France does not accept that a person should be sentenced at a trial that he or she did not attend &mdash; because of the right of the person to confront his or her accusers. This contrasts to the US practice, which is to hand down definitive sentences in absentia &mdash; some point which caused problems with some extraditions to the US (see Ira Einhorn for instance). David.Monniaux 17:27, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The remarks on presentation of evidence to laymen look to me more like a dichotomy between a jury trial and a bench trial than between systems. Assize courts in France use popular juries both on first instance and on appeal; juries are made of random voters with no particular experience. David.Monniaux 16:41, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Reorganization
I read the article again and it seems in dire need of a reorganization... David.Monniaux 17:23, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Formal System Comparisons
''It is questionable that the results would be different if cases were conducted under the differing approaches; in fact no statistics exist that can show that these systems do not come to the same result. ''

Seems like a strange use of a double negative. Are there any statistics/anecdotes which compare the systems in any fashion, concluding any of same, different or uncomparible results? I would imagine that there are few cases which are tried once each in both systems to base such a comparison on, and even then, any differences in law would likely be the deciding factor, rather than advasarial/inquisitory differences.

no statistics exist that can show that these systems do not come to the same result

to me means the same thing as

no statistics exist that can show that these systems come to the same result

and thus is probably meaningless. 128.104.114.136 21:57, 8 May 2005 (UTC)