Talk:Affaire Des Fiches

Duplicate Pages
Someone wrote an entry for this subject without seeing this stub. That material is listed under L'Affaire Des Fiches. It could be edited and moved over here, and then that page could be deleted. mrs (talk) 14:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I created a redirect for that article (better than deleting, because now if people search using the "L'" they'll still find the article. Maybe some of the sources from that duplicate article could be used here.  It looks like the editors actually got the facts backwards there...asserting that Mass goers were give a preference in promotion rather than a denial.Mamalujo (talk) 17:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Might be a redirect, but now that page no longer exists, not even the history of that person's work. That's too bad, because there was some useful information in it, despite some of the errors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark R Stoneman (talk • contribs) 04:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually you can still get to that page and its history with all earlier versions of that article. Just click on or search for L'Affaire Des Fiches. You will be redirected to this article, but below the article title it will have "(Redirected from L'Affaire Des Fiches)".  Click on the link within the parentheses and it will take you to the original page with the redirect on it. From there, click on the history tab and you can see any prior version of that page.Mamalujo (talk) 23:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

irregular cf liberal
I've repointed the link to the regularity article as it's more comprehensive on the difference between regular and irregular masonry. I'd also dispute the use of liberal as it's inherently POV. Happy to discuss some alternative to irregular, but that is the description normally used in the majority of masonic contexts for GOdF.ALR 22:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Liberal is the term that the GOdF use,
 * http://www.godf.org/foreign/uk/histoire_uk_02.html
 * I don't think I've seen any Latin Freemasonry lodges using any terms other than liberal or adogmatic - certainly not "irregular".
 * I don't hold much brief for the GOdF but I would imagine that they aren't keen on the term
 * JASpencer 22:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Confusion over the Affaire
There seems to be one contributor who believes that the Grand Orient just "found" the files somehow. The scandal came from the spying, which the Grand Orient played a large part the French article goes into greater detail, sadly without sources.

A poor interpretation of the first three paragraphs on the origins would read:


 * In 1900 General Andre replaced Gaston de Galliffet as the minister of War in the Waldeck-Rosseau Republican government, he remained in the Coombes government after the Leftist bloc victory of 1902.
 * Eager to remove anti-republican and Catholic elements in the army he introduced a highly controversial (despised by other soldiers) regulation in 1903 that banned soldiers from attending Catholic religious groups within the army, on grounds of "neutrality" required for those employed by republican institutions and their employees.
 * In the next year Andre called on local lodges of the Grand Orient of France, a Masonic Organisation which was totally engaged in the struggle for the seperation of Church and State, to write a total of 25,000 cards on political and religious opinions of the officers who attended church.

I'm tired, and I'd suggest that even Babel fish will be better than my translation, but the whole thing goes on.

Sadly it's not referenced, but I would suggest that the GOdF's role is pretty well established.

JASpencer 23:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * JAS, it does you a discredit not to refer to me. I'm not suggesting that the GOdF just found the files.  The linked source quite clearly saiys that they were passed to the Secretary by a member of govt staff.  It doesn't go into why that was done or who requested it.
 * Given your normal stance over sourcing I'm surprised that you're going to try to use an unsourced translation for this.
 * I'm all for a intellectual honesty, and clearly there is a way to go with respect to finding the correct form of words, but the article as it stood did not reflect the source used, except inasmuch as it identified that it happened in France and GOdF was mentioned in the source.
 * ALR 06:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry for that, but I didn't want to embarass you by naming you. Reading the quoted link then the full role of the GOdF does not come out.  JASpencer 20:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Freemasonry in the military
There needs to be additional information somewhere about the overall phenomenon of Freemasonry in the military (or Military masonry). Many armed forces in Italy, Turkey, Mexico, France and elsewhere have strong Masonic traditions, as evidenced by the numerous generals and colonels who have been members of lodges. ADM (talk) 08:33, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Louis André
I'm asking another source for the statement that the general Louis André was a Freemason, when in the French article and in various French books, it's clearly said he was not.90.9.154.174 (talk) 02:19, 19 January 2010 (UTC)