Talk:Afghanistan–United States relations

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Gap in this article
What happened between 1988 and 2001? johnpseudo 17:14, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Good question. The U.S. bombed al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan under Clinton, for example.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 04:24, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: All right, I withdraw this and will make the proposal in a different form. Kotniski (talk) 08:29, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

– Recent long community discussion about dash usage led to the conclusion that we should not space the en dashes in compounds like this (as documented at WP:ENDASH, sentence at the end of section 2., "The en dash in all of the compounds above is unspaced.") There are many bilateral relations pages that use the style that was previously recommended, i.e. they have spaces round the dash when one or both of the countries contains a space; the recent discussion concluded that this looks odd and does not conform to general English usage. The above 12 are just a sample; of course I propose moving not only these 12, but all of the bilateral relations articles whose titles take a similar form. Kotniski (talk) 12:50, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Afghanistan – United States relations → Afghanistan–United States relations
 * Albania – United States relations → Albania–United States relations
 * Algeria – United States relations → Algeria–United States relations
 * Andorra – United States relations → Andorra–United States relations
 * Angola – United States relations → Angola–United States relations
 * Antigua and Barbuda – United States relations → Antigua and Barbuda–United States relations
 * Argentina – United States relations → Argentina–United States relations
 * Armenia – United States relations → Armenia–United States relations
 * Aruba – United States relations → Aruba–United States relations
 * Australia – United States relations → Australia–United States relations
 * Austria – United States relations → Austria–United States relations
 * Azerbaijan – United States relations → Azerbaijan–United States relations
 * Oppose on aesthetic grounds; same reason "New York – Los Angeles" ought to be spaced. The MOS has failed in this respect, as I can see no advantage to reducing the clarity that spacing the dashes provides.  Powers T 17:18, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's rather a lack of clarity: when you space the dash, it looks like it's being used as an interruption, like a colon, so the title looks like it ought to mean Afganistan: US relations (i.e. US relations as an aspect of the topic of Afghanistan).--Kotniski (talk) 17:21, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, in a way, it is. =)  Powers T 17:32, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Premature. This is under discussion in a MoS sub-page. Tony   (talk)  01:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Which? and why is that a better place to discuss it?--Kotniski (talk) 19:26, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Support, assuming that this is the new convention, which it appears to be. There are benefits and drawbacks to both the spaced and unspaced convention for these, but WP really needs to settle on one or the other, and the one it has adopted is by far the more common format outside of WP, despite it's disadvantages. Damn the "aesthetic grounds"—once a format has been selected by consensus, let's implement it. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:53, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Surely this discussion should gather formal consensus where it started and in the relevant ongoing discussion surrounding en-dash styles first? Ideally, this should result in a specific guideline in the MoS before any global changes are made to these articles. Maethordaer (talk) 10:21, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * But all this has already been done. We had a huge consultation process about dashes, and the new MoS guidance, which says that this kind of en dashes are not spaced, was the result of that. Unless there is consensus that these bilateral relations articles should be an exception for some reason, I don't see any procedural reason not to go ahead with the change.--Kotniski (talk) 11:51, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * For those of us who weren't present for the discussion, could you provide a link to it or better to the diff where the guidelines were amended? Rennell435 (talk) 01:35, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The original discussion/poll was at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/dash drafting. The change to the MoS seems to have been made (by the mediator of the process) by way of this edit.--Kotniski (talk) 10:43, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Kotniski - I wasn't aware of that discussion. But now I'm confused. The discussion you referenced was closed on 18 July, while the two I referenced were opened on the 29 July (by the same editor, apparently), and seem to be ongoing. I'm not really used to the procedures for such in-depth discussions: what are we to make of the 'open' discussions? Are they illegitimate, or are they valid? I appreciate your input on this. Maethordaer (talk) 15:35, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, they are just informal discussions between a few people; the "official" decision from the mediated process is the one currently documented in the MoS. However, this discussion isn't bound to follow the MoS if people think there are good reasons to deviate from it in this matter.--Kotniski (talk) 12:12, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. As I haven't been involved in those discussions (and have no desire to be), do you think there are any chances they evolve from being "informal discussions" to changing the MoS? I ask because my inclination would be to follow MoS guidelines, if only to make procedures clearer for inexperienced editors. It would be a shame to move all the bilateral relations articles now only to have to move them all back if the MoS changes again. Maethordaer (talk) 14:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have thought so, particularly as no-one seems to be proposing any change to the point which is relevant to this decision, but I suppose there's no hurry to do these moves.--Kotniski (talk) 15:55, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose: Just my own bias but I personally prefer the space as it adds clarity. –CWenger ( ^ •  @ ) 19:47, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well then I support a move of all bilateral relations articles. I'd rather not see a few done at a time as it leads to inconsistency. If consensus has led to the guidelines being changed, then there's really nothing editors can do about it other than to get the guidelines changed back. I suggest closing this move request, collecting all pages at Category:Bilateral relations that would need moving, proposing a mass-move, and dropping a note on the guidelines' talk page and those of related wikiprojects. Rennell435 (talk) 17:59, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Neutrality
I have concerns about the last paragraph of the article. It seems to acknowledge only the American viewpoint. Specifically, this section: "South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham also suggested that the United States should stay in Afghanistan permanently. This would benefit both nations, as the U.S. would have a clear idea about what was happening in the region on a daily basis, and Afghan security forces would have an edge militarily to ensure that the country never went back into the hands of the Taliban." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dramamoose (talk • contribs) 16:01, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree with above. I've added a neutrally disputed tag to the statement. Feel free to balance to an NPOV version. -- lTopGunl (talk) 17:19, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

I've tried to improve neutrality within the article, specifically around the Lindsey Graham statement, but would appreciate other comments. --Dramamoose (talk) 22:44, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Treaty of WEED
I'm not positive, but the Article states the Treaty of WEED was "completely useless." This is more of an opinion and probably should not be included however I'm not familiar with this so I'm going to let it go go for now if someone else agrees with me I would appreciate you removing it. Also why is the word "WEED" capitalized? Etineskid (talk)  05:03, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Links
>:> Karzai says US cutting supplies as a tactic(Lihaas (talk) 20:28, 1 December 2013 (UTC)).

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