Talk:Afghanistan/Archive 12

What is going to happen with this article?
At the article there is no flag, emblem, anthem, leaders etc, and generally the government and the regime of the country are not described. So, what is going to happen? I mean, the facts seems to be stable so I think that maybe we should transfer all those that are mentioned at the Islamic Emirate article (after 2021) at this article, declaring of course that the new government is not recognized. Greek Rebel (talk) 20:53, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

State, Government and Taliban as political organization: Like middle age era, dynasty falls new dynasty rises. IRA state fell (and gone by history) as IEA state rises in the same land and within same people, so simple! Afghanstan as a country continues. My points: 1. Afghanstan as a country to reflect present situation as it is, that is Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan as an unrecognized state in the land of Afghanistan. It is clearly continual of 1996-state, not as a govt., but as state like dynasty.

2.Government of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan as announced and should be considered as Taliban-led 2nd government. Rule of Taliban-led government may be good or bad,afghan people suffers or hails but still it is a government that rules in the land.

3.Taliban is a movement much like brotherhood is and a militant group, now an organization much like a political party in a democratic country, not government. Taliban and government of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan two separate entities even though government is led by Taliban.

Again in the ideology section under Taliban page, it should be clearly arranged that the interpretation of Sharia greatly differs from Islam, for example: forbidding girls schooling deviates from Islam as Islam strictly commands to learn maintaining hijab, and killing people for the people in the name of Islam or peace is a hypocrisy, be it Taliban, US, NATO or Panjshir Lions. selimshah70 09:36, 9 September 2021 (UTC) This comment was edited after the replies below were made.


 * This is largely being debated above, see: — Czello (Please tag me in replies) 21:00, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes, as I can see most of the users say "Yes". Greek Rebel (talk) 08:33, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

This article Is about the geographical entity and history of Afghanistan. We already have a page linking to the Islamic Emirate. PanjshirLions (talk) 17:56, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

The ISEOA also has no recognition globally, while the ISROA is a globally recognized rump state. Just use this page for what its support to be. PanjshirLions (talk) 17:57, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Add motto back to Afghanistan infobox
The motto has not changed from IRA to IEA - please add it back in the infobox as follows

Motto: لا إله إلا الله، محمد رسول الله "Lā ʾilāha ʾillā llāh, Muhammadun rasūlu llāh" "There is no God but Allah; Muhammad is the messenger of Allah." (Shahada)

WittyWidi (talk) 22:40, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done ― Tartan357  Talk 08:39, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

A Member of the UN?
The final paragraph in the introductory section states that Afghanistan is a member of the UN. The UN adopted resolution 2513 which declared that the Islamic Emirate would not be recognised by them.--Kappasi (talk) 21:05, 10 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Perhaps it is worth noting that they are a member of the UN through the IRA WittyWidi (talk) 22:41, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The fact that the current regime is not internationally recognized by any international organization or state is a significant issue that needs to be mentioned in the lead. Basil the Bat Lord (talk) 00:54, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Languages
Please discuss any important changes to the article here, before actually doing it. This topic is one of them. A user recently removed Dari as an official language of Afghanistan leaving only Pashto. Their reason was simply that there is "no proof that Dari is the official language". I have reverted the change. As a matter of fact, Taliban has not had any official declaration regarding language yet. All we know is that the large majority of Taliban fighters are Pashto Speakers. This is simply an indication of a preference by their declared state, not an elimination of Dari as an official language. Therefore until then, the assumption will be that the official languages of the country will remain unchanged. The burden of proof is on anyone who wants to modify official state languages on Wikipedia. BasilLeaf (talk) 06:04, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Why was this merged with Islamic Emirate?
Afghanistan is still in disputed control as Panjshir is 60 percent owned by the NRF and Andarab is not captured. There is no reason to merge this page with Afghanistan. The way before was the perfect solution, no need to fix things when they are working excellent. PanjshirLions (talk) 02:27, 10 September 2021 (UTC) — PanjshirLions (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Islamic Emirate has it's own page, this page should not be about political correctness but more about Afghanistan as a geographical entity. PanjshirLions (talk) 02:30, 10 September 2021 (UTC) — PanjshirLions (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Debate: Afghanistan is still in disputed control in term of public support and legitimately but in real sense of ruling, it is no more disputed. People are under the Islamic Emirate in the land of Afghanistan. Even though international recognition is far cry but international government is communicating, holding meetings and demanding protection of human rights from Taliban led 2nd government of reinstated Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, not from Panjshir Lions. So it is all right with merge. King is dead, Long live the king!

Now Are we going to ignore the fact of establishment of emirate in 1996, fall in 2001 and reinstate in 2021. beside that, Mr. Mullah Omar took the title Amir al-Mu'minin, and now Mr. Hibatullah Akhundzada again took the title. Mr. Akhtar Mansour was 2nd Supreme Commander of Taliban not Amir as Emirate was gone. Supreme Commander of Taliban and Emir of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan two separate things. selimshah70 07:18, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

This page is about Afghanistan as a geographical entity and its history. Keep this page clean from saying Islamic Emirate. You have ruined this page. PanjshirLions (talk) 17:55, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

A small disputed territory is not grounds for leaving out the regime that controls the vast majority of the country. We can see this on other articles such as China, Russia, Mexico, Somolia, etc. Afghanistan has also been controlled in part by the Taliban for the last 20 years despite the article only reading as the Islamic Republic during that times. Many countries have disputed/autonomous zones. BakedGoods357 (talk) 18:58, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

The taliban never had any recognition then or now. This claim is too ridiculous. They aren't a state without recognition, you gotta learn politics PanjshirLions (talk) 02:51, 11 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not the stage for politics. Your name is the supportive name for "Resistance Front". This seems to be that you are putting WP:POV which is not allowed on wikipedia. —  The Chunky urf  Al Kashmiri    (Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)  05:20, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

My name just means "five lions". PanjshirLions (talk) 05:36, 11 September 2021 (UTC)


 * what part of Wikipedia POV says that a user cannot select a user name that represents a view or reflects what they care about? Plus, Wiki's founder - and all the editors - will attest to the fact that people edit the articles they care about, that is just what it is, so what difference does it make if they wear their badge on their sleeve? That said, the focus on a user name, instead of the veracity and language of the article, is utterly hilarious in view of what we have as far as article content goes. For example:According to Global Rights, almost 90% of women in Afghanistan have experienced physical abuse, sexual abuse, psychological abuse or forced marriage. The perpetrators of these crimes are the families of the victimSurely you can see what is obviously an attempt to insert POV with the joining and wording of those sentences. Family-arranged marriages are included in this statistic, and merging that into a discussion about abuse to jack up to a 90% figure is just dishonest, media-type sensationalism. Linking that practice - and non-criminal activity, in general - with a vague "the perpetrators of these crimes" in the next sentence just reinforces the POV. So while you judge Mr. Five Lions by his name, I will judge by the content on the page and, unless it is just sloppy writing, there is no conceivable way anyone, even if their user name was old-order-tradition-defender, could have written the sentences I am drawing attention to with NPOV considerations in mind. Stay focused. Asa3432 (talk) 06:20, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Flag's official source?
The Taliban have not made any official announcement about the national flag. They said they are still discussion to make a decision, and the sports teams are STILL using the tricolor flag. Possibly they will also in the upcoming 2021 ICC Men's T20 World Cup. Hence, the flag change to the Taliban flag (whoever did this in this article), is unsourced. Khestwol (talk) 10:49, 12 September 2021 (UTC)


 * It appears that have begun displaying this flag. But it could be argued this isn't an "official" announcement, so to speak. — Czello (Please tag me in replies) 10:51, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

If it is really important, we could change the word "Flag" to "De-Facto Flag".--Kappasi (talk) 10:58, 12 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Agree with the above. No-one has yet provided a source whereby the Taliban flag is officially adopted as a state flag, although they certainly haven't produced another one. The coat of arms seems even more significant original research, as we haven't seen any sources here of use. CMD (talk) 13:31, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Agree with everything that has been said here; I have removed the flag and coat of arms from the infobox. If there is a way to add a de facto flag, I think the flag should be reinstated. –Bangalamania (talk) 17:06, 12 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Well.... Although the flag hasn't officially been announced, I personally think it's quite clear that the flag of Afghanistan is the one with shahada. There are mountains of evidence. Just go over to any city in Afghanistan and you will see that flag flying over it. People are now also selling the flag on street corners and it sometimes even says "The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" in Pashto under it, clearly indicating it isn't just the Taliban flag. Not to mention the fact that the flag has been used in press conferences with the Taliban and pretty much every other thing you can imagine. It's quite clear that the Taliban are going to keep this flag. Think about it; it would be extremely tedious and costly to set up the Taliban's banner all over the country... only to come up with a new flag and have to replace it. Another thing is that this very flag was used when the Taliban were in governance 20 years ago. Also, my guess as to why the tricolor is still used in things like sporting events is because, internationally speaking, people are still quite hesitant to represent the nation of Afghanistan with the banner of the Taliban. A similar thing happened in 1996-2001 where people would still associate the Northern Alliances' flag for Afghanistan, instead of the dominant Taliban's. The last point you guys made is the fact that it hasn't been officially announced yet. Well, a lot of things haven't been "officially" announced yet. This doesn't mean it's not de-facto and true, however. The flag is just another example. ThatDohDude (talk) 17:55, 12 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I personally think it is likely as well, however these personal opinions are both original research and WP:CRYSTAL. The situation is very much in flux (it's been about one single month), and we should not following external sources, not moving faster than them. No-one has presented a taliban source which declares that flag as the flag of Afghanistan, let alone an external reliable source doing the same. CMD (talk) 04:18, 13 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Noting the original addition and restoration to this page continue to lack sources for both, I have removed them. Could a reinstatement please come with a source? The source used on the flag page explicitly says "there is no official word from the group on the flag issue". CMD (talk) 05:51, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The de facto situation is described by the Wall Street Journal here (street vendors started selling the Islamic Emirate's flag). Note the coat of arms also being visible at 1:00.--Aréat (talk) 17:44, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It's my opinion that the COA, unless implicitly used in state functions/government buildings, does not correspond to it being a country's official emblem. As of now, I have only seen the COA on unidentified walls or buildings, and no photos have emerged of it being mounted at official state functions/government buildings
 * I agree with CMD it's not warranted for inclusion. I would even say that since the usage of a COA is usually more highly regulated than flags, its presence on random walls makes it even less likely we can attach a de facto tag to it.
 * As for the flag, it's true that it has not been officially promulgated, but it's also true it has been used de facto in official Taliban government meetings/press conferences, and I would be amiable for its inclusion with a de facto tag. Seloloving (talk) 18:08, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * As for the flag, it's true that it has not been officially promulgated, but it's also true it has been used de facto in official Taliban government meetings/press conferences, and I would be amiable for its inclusion with a de facto tag. Seloloving (talk) 18:08, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * As for the flag, it's true that it has not been officially promulgated, but it's also true it has been used de facto in official Taliban government meetings/press conferences, and I would be amiable for its inclusion with a de facto tag. Seloloving (talk) 18:08, 13 September 2021 (UTC)


 * can this article be merged with the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan (talk • contribs) 02:36 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Emir of Afghanistan
For some reason I can't seem to get an editor or editors to discuss this. They merely revert. WHY are we not using the term "Emir" & instead using the descriptive "Leader". All heads of state and/or governments are 'leaders'. GoodDay (talk) 19:20, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , I'm pretty sure I explained this. Because we don't know his title yet. Head/leader is a placeholder. We have a policy on Wikipedia, WP:V. You are certainly welcome to change it if you can provide sources for Emir, but you haven't done that. Stop going around changing things based only on your assumptions of what is correct. We need sources. There has been speculation in sources that he might instead be declared Supreme Leader or something else. ― Tartan357  Talk 19:23, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I thank you for finally visiting the talkpage on this matter. Hope you'll do the same at the individual-in-question's talkpage, too. GoodDay (talk) 19:26, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , I think you are once again lumping me in with other people in your mind. Because this is the first time I've reverted the addition of "Emir". ― Tartan357  Talk 19:28, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Article about Islamic Emirate
we need an article about the Emirate in exile and the current emirate. --Panam2014 (talk) 21:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , what emirate in exile? ― Tartan357  Talk 21:53, 13 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm a tad annoyed at the moment, concerning Afghanistan-related articles. Particularly in the erroneous way we're currently describing Amrullah Saleh's predecessor, in Saleh's infobox. GoodDay (talk) 21:57, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * is not acting president, he is recognized by any country. Also, he have only claimed it in a tweet for which he have been banned. And for Ghani, he does not continues to considers himself as president. --Panam2014 (talk) 22:36, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm just tired of being reverted & there being nearly nobody interested in the topics, these last several days. Nobody (accept the reverting editors, only after you've pinged them) will bother to discuss anything. Maybe tomorrow, I'll be in a better frame of mind, to help out here. One tends to get agitated, when reverted multiple times. GoodDay (talk) 22:43, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , regarding Saleh's predecessor, I thought you were a big proponent of the "that's the way we do it in other articles" philosophy. ― Tartan357  Talk 22:59, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * He wasn't Saleh's predecessor as acting president. Thus the reason why we should have "(as president)" next to Ghani's name. GoodDay (talk) 23:01, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , yes, I'm aware of your argument. Just calling out the hypocrisy. ― Tartan357  Talk 23:02, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The same error exists in the infoboxes of the other Afghan acting presidents, concerning their predecessor being president. GoodDay (talk) 23:05, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , correct. And for most other countries, too. Based on your past arguments regarding infoboxes, we should continue with that practice. You "deal with practical matters on this project", remember? ― Tartan357  Talk 23:07, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * IF you want to get into an edit-war over that topic, go for it. I've no patience for it. GoodDay (talk) 23:13, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * We've got Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001), btw. GoodDay (talk) 22:58, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 September 2021
Change 42-50% Pashtun to 42% Pashtun

It is widely accepted that there are approximately 42% Pashtuns in Afghanistan according to the 2013 estimate. Of the 421 districts in Afghanistan, less than 42% of them are Pashtun. Various sources give different figures. Surveys regarding ethnicity in Afghanistan say that 25-39.1% identify as Tajik.[1] Someone immediately changed the Pashtun percentage from 42% to 42-50% following the Taliban takeover of the country. I believe this is a part of the Pashtunization of the country and a part of the Taliban's propaganda campaign. I expect Wikipedia to either write intervals for all ethnic groups or remove the interval that favors Pashtuns and Taliban propaganda. I will be watching and writing on subreddits in accordance with your response.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Afghanistan Hashemghorbani (talk) 06:41, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. It is sourced, and that range is visible in the Demographics article as well. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:04, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

What to do with Amrullah Saleh
As this article appears to be getting the most attention, I'm going to bring what I want to discuss 'here'. At some point, even I must face reality & that time is now. Isn't it time we make the proper changes to the Amrullah Saleh bio article, to reflect that he's no longer First Vice President of Afghanistan (the office no longer exists) & has no claim to be Acting President of Afghanistan, as the presidency itself no longer exists & the Constitution he claims the presidential powers & duties under, no longer exists. Indeed List of current heads of state and government & List of current vice presidents don't include Salei, anymore. Input at Salei's talkpage, would be very much appreciated. GoodDay (talk) 16:31, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:53, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * DaBatoranoKor.ogg

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 September 2021
hello I’m Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan may request an edit in this article? Because I want the article to have an coat of arms and rename the flag caption from “flag of the Taliban” to “flag” so please reply to me if you accept or decline. Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan (talk) 03:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Closing this request, as this topic is already under discussion elsewhere on the talkpage. CMD (talk) 06:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

add the coat of arms
hello im Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan may i suggest that the coat of arms should be readded? because why not? i mean every country/insurgency haves an coat of arms? and if you have questions tell me Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan (talk) 22:56, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Because we don't have a source for either the Taliban, or an external reliable source, declaring it the Coat of Arms. The government has been in place literally a week. CMD (talk) 02:33, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Just add it won’t cause any problem I mean why not? The Taliban haves a coat of arms even there government has a coat of arms? Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan (talk) 03:25, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Because of WP:V. CMD (talk) 06:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * In the absence of proper evidence, this tiktok link here, from Fox News Journalist who is in Kabul, is a good circumstantial one: Tiktok As you see, that is Taliban coat of Arms (in Pashto), as well as the text that says "General Directorate of Intelligence" in Dari/Persian. BasilLeaf (talk) 05:27, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Languages - Update
I know there was a bit of confusion about whether, now with the takover of the predominantly Pashtun speaking Taliban, if Dari/Persian will remain an official language. There still are no actual evidence or statements by the Taliban. But, it is safe to assume that there hasn't been any change in the status quo from the Islamic Republic bilingualism policy. This is a circumstantial evidence, filmed by Fox News Journalist in Kabul: Tiktok. As you see, the text "ریاست عمومی استخبارات" is in Dari/Persian (meaning "General Directorate of Intelligence"). So, the country, at least so far, remains an officially bilingual one. BasilLeaf (talk) 05:31, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Emblem
The emblem isn’t in the info box anymore. Please re-add it into the page.--CapiFixer (talk) 21:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Zablon Simintov
Simintov no longer resides in Afghanistan according to his own Wikipedia page. Please update this page. Jay Schro (talk) 02:32, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure, thanks for the reminder. BasilLeaf (talk) 04:35, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Why in this case, what's shown is the de-facto situation but now in cases like Crimea etc?
Why do you use the IEA flag and name etc when this isn't recognised internationally why for articles like Crimea or the President of Venezuela you write both the de-facto nad the de-jure situations? 93.15.241.95 (talk) 18:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Ethnic population
There has not been any official census concluding that 50 percent of Afghanistans population could be Pashtun. Remember less than 50 percent of the country speaks pashto and other countries like Tajikistan have tried to claim that Afghanistans population is 45 percent tajik, which is obviously not true. However, putting the Pashtun population as even possibly 50 percent is a far inaccuracy. PanjshirLions (talk) 03:29, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/afghanistan-population PanjshirLions (talk) 03:31, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

You are correct. I checked the citation that has been provided for ethnic breakdown of population. This link is the citation, a 2018 survey by "Asian Foundation": LINK The citation does not provide such information at all. It is an incorrect information. I will find the correct information and correct the article. Thanks for brining up the mistake. BasilLeaf (talk) 14:45, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

This is the most up to date data from 2019. Page 277, table '''D-14. Which ethnic group do you belong to?'''. LINK I will update the latest information on this basis, unless someone provides a more up to date information. The US Department of State numbers, which are cited frequently are from 2010, and are outdated. BasilLeaf (talk) 15:33, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Af420 seems to be putting this as a personal issue. It is simply not, it is just known that the ethnic groups of Afghanistan as listed and extremely inaccurate and it is our responsibility to ensure that Wikipedia has accurate material. PanjshirLions (talk) 19:19, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree. None of the "Asian Foundation" surveys show the breakdown that Af420 is putting in the infobox. There is no source to back that information up. BasilLeaf (talk) 19:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I have just reviewed all of Af20's sources. They are either outdated our claim to be dated correctly but are the exact same as the 2010 census. I have also spotted some inaccuracies in Af20's sources. Yet he hasn't listened to the advice in regarding to accurate sources. PanjshirLions (talk) 01:32, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

You also should not use 2011 sources and label the info as 2020. This is mislabeling. PanjshirLions (talk) 01:37, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

2019* correction PanjshirLions (talk) 01:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Af420 provided new sources that seem good, they seem to be recent too. So I'd like to thank them for this. All of the sources state that Pashtun people make up 42% of the population. None say 50%. So "42-50% Pashtun" was incorrect, and in any case, would've added up to more than 100%. I corrected it to 42%.BasilLeaf (talk) 02:51, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 September 2021
Change the spacing error “anautocracy” under government_type to “an autocracy.” IsMyNameTooLong (talk) 03:37, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done I can't seem to find the error you are talking about. BSMRD (talk) 03:44, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Must have been a glitch. I noticed too it was gone before any edit was made. IsMyNameTooLong (talk) 03:14, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

New section 'Military'
Considering that the current Taliban government of Afghanistan have their own military, we might need to add a new section referring to that Taliban military. - Hu753 (talk) 04:44, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Removing dead link for “office of the president”

 * 'Remove an external link linking to the Office of the President’:
 * Link is dead, possibly has been ever since the fall of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, and now gives an error when accessed. Even though there are archives, I don’t see what this has to do with the current regime anyway.:
 * Not much to cite, just go to the link and see it’s down:

HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith (talk) 23:32, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ BSMRD (talk) 02:03, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

"Is a member of ..." in the lede
The lede presently says It is a member of the United Nations, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation, the Group of 77, the Economic Cooperation Organization, and the Non-Aligned Movement. However membership is currently accredited to the exiled/rump IRA, not the IEA. I haven't seen any RS say that the IEA is currently representing Afghanistan in these bodies. I propose that the wording be changed to ..was a member of.. with an explanatory note. BrxBrx(talk)(please reply with BrxBrx ) 20:09, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I get the logic here, but it also isn't not a member of these orgs now. We can't say was just as we can't say is. For example, "Afghanistan" still has a seat at the UN, one that is currently (to my knowledge) vacant. Unless someone can come up with a better idea (or RS explicitly stating Afghan membership of these orgs has been removed/withdrawn) I support the status quo. BSMRD (talk) 23:49, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Rewrite section on administrative divisons
Now that a new government has taken over, it is unclear whether the old administrative divisions still hold. At the very least, all references to the old constitution should be removed. If someone has information on the status of these divisions under Taliban rule, please add them. Benboy250 (talk) 03:45, 23 September 2021 (UTC)


 * From what we have seen, there hasn't been any change in structure, simply new Taliban appointments to replace the Islamic republic officials. That's the only news coming out with respect to this matter from Afghanistan. Unless there's an announcement from the Talibs with regards to administrative divisions, we will assume that there hasn't been any change. BasilLeaf (talk) 17:36, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

flag change
I am sorely disappointed in Wikipedia's descion to accept to adopt the flag of the Taliban for this article, which has not been accepted by the majority of Afghan people as the official flag. Why is this site succumbing down to terrorists? The Taliban are not internationally recognized despite taking over the country therefore their flag should not be used as Afghanistan's official flag. Please change it or remove it. Akmal94 (talk) 08:36, 19 September 2021 (UTC) I think Mr. Fixer meant to say it is "not" recognized, not that it is "now" recognized.
 * Please see the Chinese Wikipedia version of the page "Afghanistan", where is no any national flag, coat of arms, anthem, motto, leader, legislature or government system in the infobox. The Chinese Wikipedia version of the page "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" is an independent page about the Taliban government periods during both 1996–2001 and from 2021, instead of redirecting to the Chinese Wikipedia version of the page "Afghanistan". The Chinese Wikipedia version of the page "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" is an independent page like its English Wikipedia version. In other words, now Chinese Wikipedia doesn't unilaterally recognize neither the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" nor the "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" as the legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan, which obeys WP:NPOV. English Wikipedia also should do so.--Joker Twins (talk) 12:13, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the Islamic Emirate if Afghanistan became de jure on around September 16th. It is now recognized in some countries including the United States. It isn’t recognized in Canada and probably not in China. That would explain why it is two separate pages in the Chinese Wikipedia. CapiFixer (talk) 18:50, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * You said "the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan became de jure on around September 16th. It is now recognized in any countries including the United States." But I have two questions for you. ① Now the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan still sits the seat of Afghanistan in the United Nations, so how to prove "the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan became de jure" you said? ② Now Adela Raz still serves as the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan Ambassador to the United States and works in the Embassy of Afghanistan, Washington, D.C., so how to prove "the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is recognized by the United States" you said?--Joker Twins (talk) 02:58, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * "It is now recognized in some countries including the United States" Can we have a citation for that? The article itself says IEA is not recognised by any country. Uvants (talk) 09:15, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

While Wikipedia generally trails other sources, in this situation it is apparently thrust into the lead. No credible source disputes that the Taliban regime currently exerts temporal control over the territory of Afghanistan, so this article reflects that fact. The various diplomatic gymnastics regarding the exchanges of ambassadors, etc. are of some concern but cannot change that basic fact. User:力 (power~enwiki, π,  ν ) 03:21, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Now the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan controls nearly whole Afghanistan, however the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is recognized as the legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan by most of countries around the world, and still sits the seat of Afghanistan in the United Nations. Thus I have a question for you, why can English Wikipedia unilaterally recognize the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan as the legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan, which is shown by the leads and infobox of the page Afghanistan and the redirect page Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan that redirects to the page Afghanistan, and disobeys WP:NPOV?--Joker Twins (talk) 03:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Because "legitimate government" isn't the relevant test. The Taliban regime is the government with temporal power.  The various bureaucratic dances about "legitimacy" are a separate concern. ... if you want to re-litigate various long-standing issues about the conflation of articles about a "country region" and a "government" (which normally come up regarding the islands of Ireland and Taiwan), you should do so at a forum such as Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics. User:力 (power~enwiki,  π,  ν ) 15:58, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Use as a flag of Afghanistan however is an interesting test. The flag of Afghanistan, used to represent the country, was in the Paralympics the tricolour. If that trend continues, then the flag of Afghanistan will in many cases not be the flag used by the new government. CMD (talk) 16:15, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan is so relevant to the page Afghanistan, because Afghanistan is a member state of the United Nations. When introduces a member state of the United Nations, English Wikipedia usually refers to its legitimate government and representative recognized by most of countries around the world. For example, the first sentence of the leads of the page Yemen says, "Yemen, officially the Republic of Yemen", and there are the official national name of Yemen: Republic of Yemen, and the national flag, coat of arms, anthem, motto, leaders, legislatures and government system of the Republic of Yemen in the infobox of the page Yemen, just because the Republic of Yemen is the legitimate government and representative of Yemen recognized by most of countries around the world and sits the seat of Yemen in the United Nations, although Houthis controls the northwestern part of Yemen, including Sanaa, the de jure capital of the Republic of Yemen.
 * In addition, although a new government controls most or nearly all territory of a country from its predecessor, the new government may not be recognized as the country's legitimate government and representative by most of countries around the world. For example, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan firstly controlled most of territory of Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001, but its predecessor, the Islamic State of Afghanistan was still recognized as the legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan by most of countries around the world, sat the seat of Afghanistan in the United Nations, and finally retook nearly whole Afghanistan after the United States invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. Another example, the People's Republic of Kampuchea (renamed to the State of Cambodia in 1989) controlled whole Cambodia from 1979 to 1993, but its predecessor, the Democratic Kampuchea still sat the seat of Cambodia in the United Nations until 1982. Then the Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea (renamed to the National Government of Cambodia in 1990, consisted of the political factions of the Democratic Kampuchea and royalists of the Kingdom of Cambodia) succeeded the Democratic Kampuchea and its seat in the United Nations in 1982, and recognized as the legitimate government and representative of Cambodia by most of countries around the world. Finally the Kingdom of Cambodia restored its rule to whole Cambodia and succeeded the seat of Cambodia in the United Nations in 1993, and recognized as the legitimate government and representative of Cambodia by most of countries around the world. The current political situation of Afghanistan is as same as these examples.
 * In conclusion, due to the current political situation of Afghanistan, English Wikipedia shouldn't unilaterally recognize neither the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan nor the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as the legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan to obey WP:NPOV. In other words, the first sentence of the leads of the page Afghanistan should say "Afghanistan is a landlocked country at the crossroads of Central and South Asia", without neither the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan nor the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as the official national name of Afghanistan. The infobox of the page Afghanistan shouldn't list neither the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan nor the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as the official national name of Afghanistan, and shouldn't list any national flag, coat of arms, anthem, motto, leader, legislature or government system of Afghanistan. The page Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan should be independent by merging from the page Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001).--Joker Twins (talk) 09:40, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Note: Comments in this section have been edited by Joker Twins after they had already been replied to. CMD (talk) 08:36, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * However it is just little fix and still keeps original meaning. It is so confused for the necessity of this off-topic note.--Joker Twins (talk) 08:44, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

incorrect population
Due to the neutrality of Wikipedia You used fake demographics that suppress most Hazaras The correct population statistics are as follows: 30% Pashtun 25% Tajik 23% Hazara 9% Uzbek 4% Aimaq 3% Turkmen 2% Baloch 4% others 0980asm (talk) 10:40, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Why aren't we keeping this page neutral?
I'm very wary of the fact that the page as it stands could be seen to be to be inadvertently making a political declaration as to which government "Wikipedia" is recognising as the legitimate official government of Afghanistan, and the fact that people will view this article in its current form while making their own assessments is troubling to me.

It seems to me that the obvious approach should be to have no governmental info (flag, president, or otherwise) in the infobox for the main Afghanistan page, and instead including links to the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and have the article for Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001) be updated to become the current page for Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, instead of it simply redirecting to this page.

It is now becoming abundantly clear that members of the government of the Islamic Republic, as well as others, are intending to lead a government in exile. The current UN ambassador for the Islamic Republic is also continuing to assert his right to be the legitimate UN representative for Afghanistan. The Islamic Republic flag still flies at the UN today. This page needs bringing into line with reality. The fact the Taliban has de facto physical control of the territory does not mean they will automatically become the officially recognised government. It is under dispute and should be portrayed as such.

I would suggest people take a leaf out of the example of the neutral page for Crimea, and its separate pages for the de jure Autonomous Republic of Crimea as well as the de facto Republic of Crimea. It is an intelligent and simple solution which allows for information to be kept up to date on developments on both sides of the subject, as well as leaving the main page unmolested by changing affairs until this dispute can be considered resolved once and for all.


 * This actually sounds like a good approach to me, but, sadly, it seems the moderators don't see it.. Ivario (talk) 12:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

The flag for Libya was changed less than a day after the overthrow of Muammar Gaddafi. Consult this series of edits on the removal & reestablishment of terminology and flags relating to the regime as well as the removal of all terms relating to a nation-state and the removal of any flags when it was in dispute for a few days. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Libya&dir=prev&offset=20110714232828%7C439527591&limit=500&action=history

At no point did the article for Libya revert to a neutral article on the region contained within contested borders, it simply always related to whichever authority controlled the land, internationally recognised or not. In my view it is not the job of Wikipedia to determine who is the legitimate owner or authority of any land and people, but merely provide information and report on the de facto situation. The de facto situation on this article is that the Taliban have full control and authority over Afghanistan, and that appears to be the situation going forward. There is no point of separating the authority from the region and determining it as contested, as precedence with for example Libya and Syria have shown. This article **is** neutral.

Government regime and flag
The regime MUST NOT be Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan but Islamic Republic of Afghanistan same as flag which are not acceptable for people of Afghanistan except a particular tribe called Pashtuns (Taliban are all terrorist and from the mentioned tribe). Zaki Frahmand 15 September 2021, 10:18 UTC

They might be terrorists and unacceptable for most Afghans, but unfortunately they rule Afghanistan and so that is the correct information in the article. Wikipedia is not censored and so the flag will not be removed either. Unless the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan take control again, the Taliban will rule. Your point came up in the RFC to recognise the Taliban, but WittyWidi pointed out that, as per WP:NEUTRAL, Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view and therefore will not change the facts because a lot of people don't like them. --- Mullafacation &#123;talk page&#124;user page&#125; 12:16, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

This national flag and anthem and the content mentioned here have no national or international legitimacy. We ask you to remove this content as soon as possible. Arial-noori-sajad (talk) 12:32, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

This national flag and anthem and the content mentioned here have no national or international legitimacy. We ask you to remove this content as soon as possible. Arial-noori-sajad (talk) 12:45, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Also this seems odd to argue, but the Taliban are actually somewhat quite popular. Noorullah21 (talk) 05:26, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 September 2021
Why is the Afghanistan flag changed, we as afghans do not accept change of afghan flag , since the terrorist Taliban flag has not been formally recognized by any country in the world, so the 3 color flag still remains , as the official and formal flag of Afghanistan, I highly request the Wikipedia to change it back to the previous Olaf (black,red, green). 173.2.120.22 (talk) 02:56, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. CMD (talk) 02:59, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Law and criminal justice
This page does not discuss law and criminal justice in Afghanistan. Several pages, albeit extremely brief, exist related to law and justice in Afghanistan i.e. Law of Afghanistan and Capital punishment in Afghanistan. In addition, the Taliban have expressed their take on law and criminal justice in Afghanistan i.e.  Does anybody else have any additional information? This page warrants such an addition.ElderZamzam (talk) 05:39, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 October 2021
Revert the most recent edit that added a image in the "Barakzai dynasty and British wars" section, because it's a literal screenshot from a Roblox game Kosmosnaut87 (talk) 02:26, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

BPOSER from risk universalis. Anyway, the map is a very accurate pracate with multiple sources to back up its borders and including the nations around it, you are probably from risk universalis controversied over the issue over this whole WC vs Risk thing lol, but if you arent thats awkward.

If you aren’t, it is an accurate map with proper sources. Noorullah21 (talk) 02:31, 2 October 2021 (UTC)


 * You also just admit on the risk discord that you are requesting it to be removed for troll purposes. Noorullah21 (talk) 02:35, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm not actually trolling. Roblox-related screenshots shouldn't be here anyway, even if "educative". Kosmosnaut87 02:36, 2 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes you are trolling, you admit it in the risk discord. It is a well sourced image with the borders, no other accurate maps are available to add on. Noorullah21 (talk) 02:45, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Roblox screenshots should not be used as reference for anything other than Roblox. If you are going to use reliable sources to create a map, you should create an actual map through art software, there are plenty of tutorials online to do so. BanditTheManedWolf (talk) 02:47, 2 October 2021 (UTC)


 * While the map through roblox is questionable, it is still an accurate and well sourced map backed up, I am actually trying to make a proper map for it soon, so I will replace it with that if I can. Noorullah21 (talk) 02:55, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template.This map should really be remade in a non-Roblox format though. BSMRD (talk) 02:58, 2 October 2021 (UTC)


 * I know, I will def replace it when I can, but overall its not that bad. Noorullah21 (talk) 03:10, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

For everyone's edification, here is the relevant policy:
 * User-made images can also include the recreation of graphs, charts, drawings, and maps directly from available data, as long as the user-created format does not mimic the exact style of the original work. Technical data is uncopyrightable, lacking creativity, but the presentation of data in a graph or chart can be copyrighted, so a user-made version should be sufficiently different in presentation from the original to remain free. In such cases, it is required to include verification of the source(s) of the original data when uploading such images.

Nothing about what process is used to generate the image, so policy wise this is fine (though it needs sources used, and it definitely needs a key for the colors, and probably labels). BSMRD (talk) 03:22, 2 October 2021 (UTC)


 * I do have a labal map but I feel like it takes too much of the picture of the nations so its kind of hard to see, also I do have proper sourcing for it. Noorullah21 (talk) 03:29, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * You should cite those sources in the image caption, if you want to be fully policy compliant. BSMRD (talk) 03:32, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok thank you.. Noorullah21 (talk) 03:34, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

I have removed this map and tagged it. Noorullah21, you cannot take work made by others, in this case the Risk Universalis team, and pass it off as your own. This is even true if you have edited a bit. CMD (talk) 04:45, 2 October 2021 (UTC)


 * What are you talking about? I completely made this map on my own, I have not made it with Risk whatsoever. Noorullah21 (talk) 05:58, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Me and a friend worked on this completely alone, I didnt work with risk whatsoever???, the map ISNT EVEN A RISK MAP, its a WC map, AKA the group i am in, and my own work that I MADE. Noorullah21 (talk) 06:00, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I am actually confused on whether is is a "good faith" removal ie you thought otherwise, or this is pure trolling, because you literally just removed it, claimed it was under the use of Risk out of nowhere and claimed I didn't make it..? Noorullah21 (talk) 06:10, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Copyright is not removed by modification. Your new map is similar, it appears to be based on a previous map, but there's no indication of that in the copyright. CMD (talk) 07:39, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Its based off the map of my making..? What are you on about. Noorullah21 (talk) 14:46, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Supreme Leader
Why isn't Supreme Leader used in the infobox? Perhaps can help us. GoodDay (talk) 02:21, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Supreme Leader of Afghanistan doesn't exist as a title, but Supreme Leader of Taliban does. Also I'm complaining you to the admins after this harassment. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 02:25, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Should I change it from Head to Supreme Leader in the infobox of the country? GoodDay (talk) 02:26, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Hopefully the RM at Head of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan article, will help bring consistency to this article, as well as related articles, as to how to show the position in infoboxes. Head, or Emir, or Supreme Leader. GoodDay (talk) 13:43, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 October 2021
Change government type to “Unitary autocratic Deobandi Islamic caretaker government“

The “under a” part doesn’t flow well and is unnecessary. BakedGoods357 (talk) 03:15, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: It is explained with a footnote ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:23, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 October 2021
Under the sub-section titled, "Democratic Republic regime and Soviet war" under the sub-section titled, "Contemporary History" under the section titled, "History", it should be 562,000 Russians - the Russians is missing. Someone please add it.--Baamiyaan2 (talk) 19:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The reference for it is how much Afghans died, from 562,000 to 2 million afghans, not russians. Noorullah21 (talk) 20:53, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * , Under the section titled, Babur and Mughals, a sentence reads, "Under the rule of Shah Rukh the city[which?] served as the focal point of the Timurid Renaissance, whose glory matched Florence of the Italian Renaissance as the center of a cultural rebirth.", please add which City is meant if you know. Thanks.-Baamiyaan2 (talk) 08:14, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

I will try and see later when I get on my PC, if anybody else sees this and wants to do it, go ahead. Noorullah21 (talk) 19:27, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:08, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Haibatullah-Akhundzada.jpg

Urban civilization
small thing, on the page it says "Urban civilization is believed to have begun as early as 3000 BCE", but it is not sourced, does anyone know of the souce for this?. Osty2018 (talk) 14:42, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Remove the Taliban Flag for Sports Events that took place earlier
I don't particularly want to get into the debate of which flag should be used for sports teams/sporting events taking place currently, but there is absolutely no justification for using the Talibani flag for events such as the 1960 football Asian Cup qualification or the 2015 cricket World Cup. The Taliban flag was not used in these situations and the Taliban did not even exist during the former.Angele201002 (talk) 22:02, 2 October 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree, but this also feels like it should be raised on the talk page for those articles, or just edited on there. I suspect this has happened as editors have updated the flag template for Afghanistan and we should just manually set the flag on these older events to the Islamic Republic 👍 IntUnderflow (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think that's the cause as well. — Danre98 ( talk ^ contribs ) 21:30, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * This would be better discussed at WP:AFN, as they deal with all Afghanistan related articles. This space should be for discussion of this article specifically. BSMRD (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Flag change
This flag is not recognised nor accepted by the vast majority of Afghans. Taliban's regime is an unelected forced regime. The wiki should consider all this before editing. it's the people of Afghanistan that chooses their flag to represent them not a forced regime. Taliban regime is not a recognised government internationally and internally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.37.181.249 (talk) 09:37, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Many flags have been chosen by unelected regimes or colonial powers, don't allow your personal feelings to harm the neutrality of Wikipedia 3bdulelah (talk) 10:00, 4 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Do people even bother to read the talk pages they post on? Perhaps we should add a line specifically for the flag to the FAQ, for what little good it would do. BSMRD (talk) 13:30, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It's a bit odd to me that there's all these talk sections focusing only on the flag when these readers' issue seems to be that the article as a whole equates Afghanistan with the Islamic Emirate; simply removing the Taliban flag doesn't satisfy their concerns, so I don't know why they keep asking for us to do that. It's getting to the point where you could say they're spamming the talk page.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 23:00, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Afghanistan is mostly in Central Asia!
Afghanistan is the heart of Asia, it is expected for it to be in multiple parts of Asia. A majority of Afghanistan is in Central Asia so it should say Central Asia, NOT south asia. The search Afghanistan should result in "Central Asia". This is unfair to the afghans being that they resonate more with Iranic and Central Asian culture rather than South Asia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gulsumz (talk • contribs) 18:59, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Afghanistan... is a landlocked country at the crossroads of Central and South Asia. We already say it straddles both regions in the first sentence. BSMRD (talk) 21:53, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * This has been discussed before at the South Asia page (see Talk:South Asia/Archive 3). There is a consensus that Afghanistan is between central and south south Asia, part of both. There is no compelling reason to switch it to central Asia. — Danre98 ( talk ^ contribs ) 02:20, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Cite error
The refname pancap2 was introduced to the Taliban resurgence section in this edit, but was not defined.

The related statements are already cited to an FT article, and so the undefined refname is not needed.

This should be removed from the mentioned section:

Thanks 89.241.33.89 (talk) 16:28, 8 October 2021 (UTC) Done Jibran1998 (talk) 17:55, 8 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you 89.241.33.89 (talk) 18:05, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 October 2021
Change to  Jasper Chu (talk) 17:02, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Jasper Chu Jasper Chu (talk) 17:02, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: There is consensus for this article to treat the Islamic Emirate as the sole current government of Afghanistan. See the for details. ―  Tartan357  Talk 01:55, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Splitting proposal

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not split WP:SNOW closure. (non-admin closure) Ganesha811 (talk) 20:18, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

I propose that section Afghanistan and some information specific to the regime, and not to the country be split into a separate page called Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (2021–present). There is already a precedent when there are separate articles about the country and its political regime: French Fifth Republic and France. And in the case of Afghanistan, aggravated by the fact that the Emirate is not recognized by many countries of the world, this will be even more justified. Somerby (talk) 19:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Can someone add split to the page? It is currently protected so that only extended confirmed users and administrators can edit it. --Somerby (talk) 19:41, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 * We already had this, and it was decided to move info about the current iteration of the IEA to this page. Everyone complaining about this page being about the Taliban is late to the party, and needs to check out the plethora of RMs, RfCs, and general discussion that occurred here and at Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan before they start re-opening this issue. BSMRD (talk) 19:47, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 * BSMRD, as far as I can see in Talk:Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001) many people supported move but also supported existence separate Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (2021–present). See for example comments made by User:Pincrete and User:Kashmiri. --Somerby (talk) 06:03, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * There are existing subarticles information could be moved to, such as Taliban, History of the Taliban, Politics of Afghanistan, History of Afghanistan, and better options for splits such as new articles extending either direction from History of Afghanistan (1978–1992). CMD (talk) 12:09, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * If the 'new emirate' is covered within the main country article - which it probably can quite adequately at present, there is no need for a 'new emirate' article as yet IMO. If content expands beyond a point where that works, then the position changes, but I'm happy either way. Pincrete (talk) 15:18, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * France is an exception, there are plenty of sources for French Fifth Republic. We can not compare Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan with French Fifth Republic and Afghanistan with France. --Lagelander (talk) 14:52, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't think this is such a good idea. Firstly, we had reached consensus regarding the article's government many weeks ago, and most votes overwhelmingly were supportive of an article similar to how it is right now. Another thing is that when people go to the Afghanistan article, they also most likely want to know what government/group currently exercises power over the country. Having Afghanistan split up like that is going to make things quite confusing later down the line, if not instantly. The format of splitting an article like this is generally unpopular and will make everything confusing and inconsistent. Not to mention that for France, the main article's page still has the flag and full name of the current regime, despite also having another article for it. ThatDohDude (talk) 20:04, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose We should not split the page, there is no reason to in my opinion, the Taliban flag and history presently mentioned on the Afghanistan page is fine. People who complain should realize that you concurrently cannot claim an identity to rule the nation of Afghanistan when it doesn't, the Taliban do. Putting the actual afghan flag there would just be false and misrepresented. The way things are is fine, no need to split whatsoever. Noorullah21 (talk) 22:05, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I strongly support this. The Afghanistan page was majorly based on the geographical topics of the country, while the IRAF (Islamic Republic of Afghanistan) explained most of the governing topics. My question is why these were not merged during IRAF's rule over Afghanistan, but now is when IEAF controls. I have an answer to this; Newcomers to the topic that didn't fully understand why there should have been 2 articles, obviously not reading a majority of each page (Sorry if that sounds rude in any way, that's not how I want to come across.) These two obviously have different topics, though similar, but it is clear that they should be split into two, a geographically-based article (Afghanistan), and the governing body (Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.) There's no need for one when we spent many years having separate pages. Evanblockz (talk) 19:57, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * They were merged when the IRA was in charge, the seperated IRA page was created August 15 2021. BSMRD (talk) 21:41, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * There weren't separate pages during the IRA era, I created Islamic Republic of Afghanistan during the fall of Kabul to document the former government for posterity, the first entry on page history when moving to namespace even says "Moving to mainspace as Afghanistan now refers to the IEA" IntUnderflow (talk) 13:52, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
 * As has been agreed in past discussions, the article about the state of Afghanistan should have information about the current regime integrated into it as was always the case in the past. Ultimately, the Taliban is in charge of Afghanistan and the old government isn't even really much of a  contender for power at the current time. I can possible understand the argument that the section on the development of the new government might be  best taken out or moved somewhere else in the long term but that could be wide range of places other than a new article on the state, apart from that, what else is there that could possibly be worth moving. Llewee (talk) 23:53, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No. The Taliban is the government of Afghanistan. We already had this conservation two weeks ago. Why has it started again? The Republic of China on Taiwan isn't recognised either, are we going to import People's Republic of China flags on there and then seperate all the information about its de facto government onto a seperate article? Ecpiandy (talk) 20:04, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose per Ytpks896 (talk) 10:22, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose per, the Taliban now run Afghanistan whether we like it or not, people visiting the Afghanistan article will want to know about the current government, not have to dig to find it because we're making it more difficult to find by avoiding saying out loud immediately that the Taliban rule the country (even though they do). If this article gets split, we should be consistent and split Taiwan Kosovo and Cyprus as well since they have disputed governments. IntUnderflow (talk) 13:48, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose: This is not really how it goes, not when a government has current control of a country. When I saw the split proposal notice, I immediately thought "Oh, not again." The arrangement that was agreed allows for the least duplication of information and is in line with normal practice. France is indeed an exception. There is no Sixth Republic of Korea article, nor is there a separate article for Ba'ath-ruled Syria in addition to Syria or Hadi-ruled Yemen in addition to Yemen. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 01:24, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose: If the section History -> Restored Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan grows too big for comfortable reading, then a article with the proposed title can be created and linked from there when needed. It is not needed for the time being. However, if your idea is "creating a different country article", I strongly oppose it per the previously exposed reasons. MaeseLeon (talk) 08:14, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Do we split Federal Republic of Germany from Germany?--Drako (talk) 18:00, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose: The page "Afghanistan" should reflect current Afghanistan. As Drako said, one would not expect the page Germany to redirect to the DDR, or West Germany. Nor Vietnam to redirect to the State of Vietnam, or the Republic of Vietnam. Tentonne (talk) 15:45, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose - as the IEA is Afghanistan. GoodDay (talk) 17:00, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose That would be too confusing. And unfortunately, the current Taliban regime is the current Afghan government. Psychloppos (talk) 10:22, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Consensus on the addition of "Flag of Taliban" to infobox
In view of the previous discussion I participated in here, I do not think we should add the Flag of the Taliban as the Flag of Afghanistan. It is certainly not representing Afghanistan at any international platform. Interestingly, in the current Expo 2020 in Dubai, no flag is currently used for Afghanistan either. (During the opening ceremony on 1 October the tricolor Afghan flag was used, which was later removed.) Now, I think we should wait what flag Afghanistan will display at the 2021 ICC Men's T20 World Cup which starts from 18 October in Abu Dhabi. Khestwol (talk) 16:11, 8 October 2021 (UTC)


 * http://law.acku.edu.af/fa/download/file/fa/12686/77746 is a single source for the fact that this flag is the flag of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, which is currently the regime of Afghanistan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WittyWidi (talk • contribs) 16:26, 8 October 2021 (UTC)


 * If I understand this correctly, the source of your criticism has nothing to do with the flag; you're arguing that the "Afghanistan" article should not be about the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan because the IEA lacks recognition from the international community. Unless you're arguing that we should keep everything in the infobox the same (the name of the country being the IEA, the emblem being the emblem of the IEA, etc) except for the flag, which we should remove on the basis that international sporting events don't use the IEA flag as a byproduct of them not recognizing the IEA? That'd be a very, very strange argument. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 19:57, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Where do you read the argument about the article not showing the IEA? They suggested specifically that placing a flag on this article to represent Afghanistan that is not actually the flag that usually represents Afghanistan is not the best course of action. Sporting events are only one example. CMD (talk) 23:55, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I was trying to be charitable to them by assuming their problem is the article showing the IEA at all, because their position would be very odd otherwise. To accept that the IEA de facto is Afghanistan, but to insist on removing symbols representing the IEA on the basis that the international community does not recognize the IEA, is a nonsensical position. I don't see why we should selectively care about international recognition in some parameters but not in others. If nothing else, the OP should wait for the closure of an ongoing RfC at Flag of Afghanistan which they have participated in. Best wishes, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 20:47, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The issue is not recognition, but use and WP:V/WP:DUE. The white and black flag has not achived de facto use in most situations, and we don't really have sources calling it the Flag of Afghanistan. This is different from the government, which we have plenty of sources for and is de facto governing. CMD (talk) 01:42, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I really am having a hard time seeing how WP:DUE is a concern here. Are you arguing that it's undue to display a country's flag in that country's article? That can't possibly be correct. As for WP:V, we have plenty of sources showing that they're using it as a government symbol. You seem to be waiting for some sort of official press release or UN statement, which is not required by WP:V at all. In fact, we're discouraged from overriding secondary sources with primary ones. ― Tartan357  Talk 01:50, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * As I have replied before when my argument was similarly misinterpreted, I am looking for sources that say that the white and black flag is the flag of Afghanistan. For example, this source calls the tricolour the "flag of Afghanistan" and "Afghanistan's flag", and this source calls the tricolour the "national flag". WP:DUE comes into effect if sources conflict on the flag of Afghanistan, but that's a step after WP:V. CMD (talk) 04:11, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:V has been met. I provided you sources over at Template talk:Country data Afghanistan, but will copy them here for the others to see:, , , , . Your take on WP:DUE is silly as it is based entirely on sporting events (with sources such as "Sportskeeda", whatever that is). My sources are high-quality (Al Jazeera, The Washington Post, AP, The Guardian) and all primarily about how the flag has changed, and establish more weight for the IEA flag than your sporting ones do for the IRA flag. ― Tartan357  Talk 04:53, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * None of those call the black and white flag the flag of Afghanistan. Most call it the Taliban flag. The final one even refers to the tricolour as the Afghani national flag. CMD (talk) 05:31, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I hope this doesn't come off as uncivil, but I believe you may have the wrong idea of what makes a flag the de facto flag. It is being used de facto in Afghanistan. Whether or not it's being used at international gatherings is a matter of international recognition. We are only concerned with which flag flies from the flagpoles in Afghanistan. That's verified by domestic sources. It is of no concern to us which flag flies at the Olympics or the UN. The first source provided by User:Tartan357 stated that the white banner was reintroduced in 2021 as part of a list of "Afghanistan's flags", so they certainly meet your unusual criteria (that sources must call it "the flag of Afghanistan" as opposed to stating the fact that this flag now flies over Afghanistan). I should add that we seldom use such a criteria on articles about flags when there's a dispute between the de facto and the de jure government, because calling a single flag "the flag" implies recognition. The only objective criteria for determining "the flag of Afghanistan" is to ask which flag flies over Afghanistan, and there is only one answer now. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 21:17, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * De facto just means "in reality", it doesn't mean "in Afghanistan" or something else. ("De jure" doesn't mean internationally recognised either, it just means by law, and presumably the Taliban are by their law de jure rulers.) CMD (talk) 01:54, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, in reality the ruling body of Afghanistan is using a white banner with the shahada on it. It is of no concern which flag foreign organizations choose to use, as that is a matter of which regime said organizations recognize as legitimate. In this context, de jure is very much synonymous with recognized. It is a matter of fact that the Taliban rules Afghanistan right now, and whether or not international organizations wish to legitimize them is up to their own discretion. It is completely irrelevant which flag is more likely to be seen outside of Afghanistan. We don't care what flag flew at the paralympics or which flag flies over foreign embassies. To argue something along the lines of "de facto the IRA flag represents Afghanistan more often outside of Afghanistan" is to say "de facto it's de jure." I apologize if I'm coming off as frustrated here, arguments over semantics tend to go in circles like this. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 02:46, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

I actually suggest putting the 2 flags side-by-side. This means that we can display the de jure and de facto flags side-by-side because they have various levels of legitimacy involved. On one hand, the Taliban flag is the de facto flag but isn't recognised, but the Afghan tricolour IS recognised by various sources cited above, like you say, but now is only de jure after the Taliban takeover... Old!!man1234561234 (talk) 10:08, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

The IEA is Afghanistan & has been since August 15, 2021. That's just the way it is & has been. GoodDay (talk) 16:56, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Huge no .....added "Flag of Taliban" would be adding a political party flag....we would never add the Democratic Party party logo as the flag of the USA. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 22:44, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * What?? The Taliban is not a political party. They're a group that call themselves the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, and they took over the country by force and instated an autocratic government bearing the same name. The term "the Taliban" is an exonym we use to describe the militant organization that fought on their behalf during the war. That Democratic Party analogy is gibberish. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 01:21, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Taliban ....ultraconservative political and religious faction that emerged in Afghanistan in the mid-1990s following the withdrawal of Soviet... Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 02:51, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, and? <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 03:50, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Classified as a political flag till official change  ....thus far 30 flags in 102 years....just need official change that has a process. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 22:29, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Gini coefficent
It is stated in the infobox that Afghanistan has the lowest Gini coefficent in the world - this is simply not correct. There is no data since 2008, but the score 27.8 is not the lowest in the world by any means. Blåmes (talk) 11:20, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
 * If there's no data it should be removed. I note the linked article has it as a blank row. CMD (talk) 11:59, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'd gladly change it myself but since I'm not an extended-confirmed user on the English Wikipedia, I'm unable to. If someone could simply remove the link to List of countries by income equality and "1st" in the infobox, it would be much appreciated. Blåmes (talk) 07:24, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I shifted it into the body, as while far too outdated for the lead, it might be more due there. CMD (talk) 13:06, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I think you forgot to remove the information in the infobox. Blåmes (talk) 18:42, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah, done now. CMD (talk) 02:14, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Cite error (2)
There is an undefined refname at the end of the Demographics section. The reference was removed by this edit while the refname was still in use elsewhere.

The following:  

should be replaced by:  

Thanks 89.241.33.89 (talk) 18:58, 14 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Done. Noorullah21 (talk) 05:31, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 October 2021
Talibans banned music, I think it should be said by Wikipedia. Egon20 (talk) 11:14, 5 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Sirdog (talk) 23:01, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I asked to mention the fact that Talibans banned music in the wikipedia page since there is already a section that exclusively talks about music. Egon20 (talk) 07:35, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

The anthem of taliban is called a cappella "anthem without music" ServerScript (talk) 08:59, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Formation box for Afghan Dynasties, etc.
I was wondering, since that we have added the lodis, of course since they were also regarded as The AFGHAN EMPIRE, we should add other pashtun/afghan dynasties in the formation box perhaps?

Atleast the ones that have centered closeby, including india, this would include dynasties perhaps including the Khilji dynasty Sur Empire Malwa Sultanate, etc. Let me know of your thoughts and opinions below.

@Kansas Bear (inviting you to ask what you think about this)

Anybody else feel free to reply. Noorullah21 (talk) 04:22, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Ideally the box should be as short as possible, holding only the key event(s) that created the current state. CMD (talk) 06:42, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

I believe having the Khiljis and Lodis would be probable to keep then, since they both contributed to it through different events, the Sur dynasty is debateable. Noorullah21 (talk) 16:02, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Indian border claim
Due to the Kashmir Dispute, India does claim a border on the south east, though the border is not administered by India. I would suggest adding a note where it says that Afghanistan shares a border with Pakistan about India claiming a border. Chxeese (talk) 00:45, 17 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Good point, I've made the modification. BasilLeaf (talk) 06:15, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Afghanistan is located in Central Asia
Afghanistan is not in South Asia. It’s in the Heart of Central Asia. If you take a class at UCLA or use accurate sources, it is considered Central Asian. Not sure why it says South Asian. It’s inaccurate and needs to be updated. Afghanistan also does not share any culture with the South Asian region. It shares a Persian language with Iran and Tajikistan and was once apart of the Persian Empire? Shabnamabiii (talk) 08:09, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The article already says that Afghanistan "is a landlocked country at the crossroads of Central and South Asia" which is accurate. Afghanistan is frequently included in lists of countries in both regions. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 20:57, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

It’s not accurate. None of the regions in Afghanistan are in South Asia so it shouldn’t be on lists, and actual credible sources like universities and scholarly articles only consider it Central Asia. That’s all. Shabnamabiii (talk) 01:19, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * You may have to discuss this at South Asia then, because that article has no shortage of sources in it justifying Afghanistan being described as a South Asian country. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 20:08, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

This Flag does not belong to Afghanistan !
This national flag and anthem and the content mentioned here have no national or international legitimacy. We ask you to remove this content as soon as possible. Arial-noori-sajad (talk) 12:45, 25 September 2021 (UTC)


 * It appears to me that the level of consensus for using Taliban symbols is unacceptably low, given the ramifications of the decision.  The RFC that made the decision was open for less than 48 hours, and the decision appears to have had a number of unintended and unanticipated consequences.  Much of the talk page since then has been people objecting to the decision.


 * Unless there's good reason not to, I suggest we have a wider RFC to review the decision to use Taliban symbols here. Kahastok talk 14:51, 25 September 2021 (UTC)


 * It's actually broken large chunks of the article, as well. This evidenced by the fact people in this very talk page are discussing how to best go about removing massive chunks of sections about the governance structure of the Islamic Republic, as well as the fact the memberships of international organisations currently belonging to the Islamic Republic are currently included as if they automatically now belong to the Taliban government. They don't. LegerityFortis (talk)

Despite not being recognized, Wikipedia still prefers to show defacto over dejure, afghanistan for the islamic republic still has its own page at the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, this is how Afghanistan is now. Noorullah21 (talk) 05:25, 27 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Does Wikipedia prefer de facto over de jure? I don't see it in the Crimea article. Uvants (talk) 01:30, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * My bad for wording that incorrectly, but there was multiple RFCs and consensus to this, and they agreed on the inclusion of the Taliban. Noorullah21 (talk) 22:41, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

In the [Crimea] article, it specifies that it is "Controlled and governed as part of the Russian Federation".--Kappasi (talk) 13:21, 6 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Could you point these out for me? There's lots on the talk page in recent weeks, so I could easily have missed them.  But the decision I see is this RFC.


 * RFCs default to 30 days. This one was closed - not withdrawn, closed - by the original proposer after less than two days.  This was not a discussion that was obviously finished - it was closed less than three hours after the last comment was made, after multiple editors had disagreed with the proposal.  This seems highly premature, and as such, I do not consider this to be a high standard of consensus - to the point that I don't think a new RFC is unreasonable, if that's what the current article is based on.


 * But it might not be what the current article is based on. If you could point to other RFCs or whatever else, maybe I would take a different view. Kahastok talk 15:38, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I hadn't realized until you pointed it out that the opener of the RfC closed it. That is clearly a WP:BADNAC that should be reversed. We don't need a new RfC, we need that one to continue to completion. I recommend following the procedures in WP:CLOSECHALLENGE to undo the close. ― Tartan357  Talk 23:34, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Suddenly restarting an RFC weeks after it was ostensibly closed and archived isn't great either though. No, I think it'd be better to start a new RFC based on the recognition that the previous one was flawed. Kahastok talk 19:49, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The reason why I closed that RFC was because, as is explained in it, I dropped the aspect that was causing controversy and their was, with the exception of one responder, a universal consensus for the other changes proposed. The controversial part (i.e merging) was dealt with in a separate discussion on that talk page.Llewee (talk) 15:14, 5 October 2021 (UTC)


 * User:Llewee, can you demonstrate that it dealt with all the concerns that may have been raised, had the RFC been allowed to continue for more than a day and a half?


 * My guess is that the answer is no. Which makes it a rather weak consensus as these things go.  And if someone does object, I see no reason why they shouldn't open a new RFC to have the discussion that was not had in that RFC. Kahastok talk 07:02, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Kahastok What I can demonstrate is that it was a very active discussion with a clear consensus for the changes that I implemented. You or anyone else are more than welcome to start a new RFC but given the way the hugh amount of discussion about this issue which has taken place on this talk page and elsewhere in recent months has broadly gone I would be very surprised if it produced a significantly different result. Llewee (talk) 07:26, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The discussion did not include the word "flag" once, let alone build a consensus around a particular view on them. CMD (talk) 07:27, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Maybe we can keep Taliban insignia ALONG SIDE Islamic Republic signs? That might be better. Old!!man1234561234 (talk) 06:38, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Since The Islamic Emirate is not officially recognized by any United Nations members, can we actually say Afghanistan is officially called the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan? As a matter of fact, all countries de facto continue to recognize the Islamic Republic since no nation has discredited the Republic and no one has recognised the new government. Some nations have engaged with the Taliban, but all have specified: Engagement and Recognition is different. So, how to put the Emirate in the official article for Afghanistan? I am sure Wikipedia prefers de jure over de facto, we see it in the Crimea article. So, since Afghanistan is de jure the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and no member of the United Nations have recognised the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, in this article, we should replace the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan with the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. Also, the Republic formed an in-exile government, headed by Amrullah Saleh, as said by the Afghan embassy to Switzerland. Sng Pal (talk) 12:26, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Bruh do you really support corrupted government ServerScript (talk) 09:00, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The government may be corrupt, but it is recognized internationally and is the de jure government. No one recognises it. So, I ask to replace the Taliban flag with the Afghan tri-colour. The last time I wrote, the T20I world cup hadn't started. Now it has started in the United Arab Emirates, we see how the Afghan team is playing under the tri-colour, thus proving it's legitimacy and the Taliban flag's illegitimacy. And also, do you support the terrorist government? I think a terrorist government is as bad as a corrupt government, if not worse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sng Pal (talk • contribs) 09:14, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Afghanistan is playing under the tri-color flag in the tournament. The whole Wikipedia article about 2021 ICC Men's T20 World Cup has Afghanistan with tri-color flag. Throughout the stadium everyone is holding a tri-color flag, fans are even wearing clothes matching the tri-colors. Their official cricket twitter account (@ACBofficials) is using tri-color flag in their tweets. When they are themselves using the old flag, then why this taliban flag on Wikipedia? makes no sense. SochneyDe (talk) 21:46, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Because..they rule Afghanistan..? Doesn't matter if they aren't recognized, Transnistria is still a Wikipedia page despite not being recognized, USING the Tri-colour makes no sense when the Tri-Colour isnt even used by the current Afghan ruling government AKA the Taliban. Noorullah21 (talk) 01:21, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

The Percentage of tow large Nations are.
Tajik (47)% Pashtun (27)%. PTabasm (talk) 09:09, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Tricolor flag currently used at all international events
Afghanistan is still using the tricolor flag at international events e.g. the 2021 ICC Men's T20 World Cup, where they may reach the semifinals. This fact should be reflected in this article about the country, instead of only inserting the unrecognized Taliban white flag. Khestwol (talk) 05:50, 2 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Please stop creating new talk sections about the same topic. This is at least the third or fourth one. There's an active RfC about the flag which you are already participating in. You also created multiple other sections now found in the most recent archive. This is unproductive. You've made your opinion known. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 18:09, 2 November 2021 (UTC)


 * That's not really relevant, as teams can have different flags than their country's flag. Ireland doesn't use the tricolor flag either. Serafart (talk) (contributions) 03:16, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Use of Flag in Infobox
As the use of flags in the infobox seems to be causing some disagreement on this talk page I think it would be useful to reach a consensus specifically on this issue.

Option A Continue using the flag of the Taliban

Option B Return to the tricolour of the deposed republic

Option C Use both

Option D Use neither

--Llewee (talk) 14:48, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Survey

 * B - The movement of Taliban is just a rebellion against the government of Afghanistan so it is logical to use the tricolor flag of black, red and green. Zaki Frahmand 21:22 UTC 2 November 2021


 * A - as the IEA is now Afghanistan & has been since 15 August 2021. It's simply the way it is, now. GoodDay (talk) 17:11, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Question: In events related to Afghanistan before 2021, will you also used the Taliban flag? For the Afghanistan national cricket team, which continues using the tricolor flag as of now, will you use the Taliban flag? Khestwol (talk)
 * They should be using the Taliban flag. GoodDay (talk) 22:41, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * , This discussion is focused specifically on what flag should be used in the pages infobox.--Llewee (talk) 23:46, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * A - The Flag is being used by the de facto government in its official meetings with everyone, the the previous regime no longer exists so no point in using the tricolor flag. Jibran1998 (talk) 17:28, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A We've been over this, the Taliban is in charge and this is their flag. There is never going to be an official declaration declaring this as the "new" flag because the Taliban see themselves as being in full continuity with the Emirate from the 90s, just temporarily forced out of power. BSMRD (talk) 17:56, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * C, use both depending on the context. Khestwol (talk) 19:13, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * , this is specifically in the infobox. Llewee (talk) 21:26, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A, per BSMRD IntUnderflow (talk) 23:25, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A, it's the flag of the country right now for all intents and purposes. Flags of previous political entities in the same territory should be used (or created if needed) just as it is done for every other country which had different regimes in the past. --MaeseLeon (talk) 03:55, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * There are numerous intents and purposes for which it is not the flag of the country. The Paralympics was one, every embassy would be another. CMD (talk) 04:09, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A, its their flag for now. LondonIP (talk) 10:14, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * D, the Crimean approach. The main page should cover Afghanistan as a geographical entity and show no flag, at least as long as the international community doesn't sort things out (which doesn't seem to be happening soon). The political entity that is de facto controlling the country should have its own article at Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. Luxic (talk) 18:30, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * D, as per Luxic, if not then A as unless something changes there should be no point using the old flag to represent a country that no longer exists in a meaningful sense. Dawiston (talk) 20:49, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * D, Taliban is not recognized by any country, nor represents the country in the UN. I agree with Luxic's argument. Pahlevun (talk) 22:55, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Huge no to added "Flag of Taliban".... would be us adding a political party flag to a country flag parameter ....we would never add the Democratic Party party logo as the flag of the USA. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 23:06, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Last I checked, the logo of the Democratic Party isn't flying from all the flagpoles on capitol hill, is it? <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 04:04, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

A. The Taliban have been in control of the Afghanistan since 15 Aug 2021 and until the Taliban is finally overthrown again we can keep it. C. The Taliban has de facto control, the Islamic Republic de jure. And the Islamic Republic is still recognised by the world as the sole legitimate government of Afghanistan. So, both of them get a flag. Old!!man1234561234 (talk) 08:45, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A per BSMRD's argument. There are many examples of WP articles using the flag of the governments of nations/regimes with limited diplomatic recognition. Vladimir.copic (talk) 02:13, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A per BSMRD. I should add that this question really shouldn't hone in on the flag. If the consensus ends up being in favor of any option other than A, that would presumably affect the entire article, not just the flag parameter, right? The real question is whether or not this article should focus on the IEA or be restructured (yet again) to describe Afghanistan not as a country but as a geographic area, which would require us to split the Afghanistan article into another IEA article (which is already being proposed and discussed elsewhere), etc. etc. If this RfC is genuinely proposing to only remove the flag while still having the article focus on the IEA (which would be very weird), then that wasn't made clear enough.<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 04:04, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * My personal view is A, however, I wanted a consensus to be reached specifically on this issue as their have been a lot of arguments about it here in recent weeks and complaints that it hasn't been properly discussed.--Llewee (talk) 09:47, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * C or D. I would've honestly gone with option A, but I'm watching the developments in Cricket, and it's still, even after 2 months, premature to simply go with Taliban flag. Because the implication of the usage of tricolor for Cricket is that the tricolor still holds relevance in representing the country of Afghanistan, if not domestically, abroad. BasilLeaf (talk) 05:46, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A per previous users, until the Taliban a) are overthrown again b) start using another national flag. Psychloppos (talk) 08:02, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A no argument needed. Noorullah21 (talk) 19:34, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A. Nothing to discuss. Super   Ψ   Dro  10:26, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * C, per BasilLeaf and for the sake of maintaining NPOV. The Islamic Empirate of Afghanistan is the government of Afghanistan now, but the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan's flag is still flown at some recent sporting events and still holds relevance for representing the country. I believe there is a merit to having both flags and that both flags need to be in the Infobox. Rexh17 (talk) 22:25, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A per BSMRD; disagree with BasilLeaf that cricket/sporting or even international recognition meet the standard to leave off the IEA given that it is the sole government in control of Afg. by various sources WittyWidi (talk) 14:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A Per Ytpks896 (talk) 21:46, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * C The flag of the Islamic Emirate is not recognised, now used to represent Afghanistan anywhere internationally - from sporting events to embassies. Afghan embassies and diplomatic offices still fly the flag of the Islamic Republic. But the Emirate controls the country and is the de facto government, we cannot dismiss that as well. So, maintaining a neutrality, I think it's best to show both, since one is used domestically, and the other internationally.. Most notably, the Afghan Cricket Board's office has both the flags, as per last time I saw in a press conference. I agree fully with the argument of Luxic
 * Either A or C because
 * , would you mind 'moving' your A/C vote into the 'survey' section? GoodDay (talk) 07:56, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

We have reasons for all Old!!man1234561234 (talk) 08:52, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * This RFC is flawed as written. Because the question narrowly focusses on the flag, to the exclusion of other aspects such as the name, A and D are the only conclusions that make any sense.  The alternatives require that we represent the tricolour as the flag of the Islamic Emirate (which it clearly isn't).  I don't accept that limiting the discussion in this way is appropriate.  The question is, or should be, whether this article should accept as uncontroversial fact that the Taliban are the government of Afghanistan, a POV that is rejected by every government on the planet. Kahastok talk 21:46, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Just to add, in the apparent absence of any reliable source suggesting that the Taliban flag is the flag of Afghanistan, and assuming the flawed question is all that is being asked, the appropriate response I think is D. You can't use a flag if you can't source it, but as above the tricolour is inconsistent with the rest of the article. Kahastok talk 20:41, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * B There is no evidence that the Taliban have adopted their flag as the national flag of Afghanistan. Furthermore, per weight, articles are supposed to reflect reliable sources, which all continue to use the flag of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. Envoys of the Islamic Republic continue to represent Afghanistan and continue to use the Islamic Republic's flag. TFD (talk) 01:19, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Various reliable sources indicate three things: 1) the IEA is in control of Afghanistan; 2) the IEA uses the white field with the black shahada as their flag, with continuity from their previous regime, which they see the current regime as a restoration of; and 3) that said flag is in use in Afghanistan and reflects the ground reality in the country. Over at Flag of Afghanistan I think we can take a more nuanced approach to this, using both the IEA and IRA flags as the IRA still has diplomatic recognition worldwide, but the infobox on a country page should reflect the reality in the country, and the reality is that the Islamic Republic is no more, and that the flag of the Islamic Emirate is the flag of Afghanistan. WittyWidi (talk) 17:07, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * That's original research. We need reliable sources that say it is the flag of Afghanistan. Reality is whatever reliable sources say it is. TFD (talk) 09:35, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Countries don't have flags, their regimes do. Often they are one and the same, but in Afghanistan's case they are not. Moreover reliable sources (refs 1 and 2 here say that the flag of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is the black shahada on the white flag. Reliable sources say that the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is the regime of Afghanistan. Yes, to an extent it is WP:SYNTH, but this is unavoidable in this case, and I'd argue it's not egregious enough to constitute WP:OR; with that said, the alternative, which you backed, is substantially flimsier in that there may be the verifiable connection between flag and regime, but the substantially more important verifiable connection between the Islamic Republic and the current regime of Afghanistan is missing. WittyWidi (talk) 18:20, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * B. As UNO member website page is still showing tricolour flag.Ameen Akbar (talk) 07:23, 21 October 2021 (UTC)


 * B The Taliban are not recognized by any government in the world let alone the UN so there is no need for their flag to be displayed in the infobox. Also, i don't think the Taliban have ever announced the change of the flag to the public, not to mention the Afghan cricket team recently used the tri-colour flag in their recent cricket tournament. Akmal94 (talk) 21:41, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Just because they are not recognized does not mean the flag shouldn't be displayed, that makes no sense. The Taliban literally have it hoistered as their official flag, the Afghan cricket team using the tri-colour flag is another issue and is moving toward whataboutery Noorullah21 (talk) 03:31, 28 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Thats assumption, the Taliban haven't officially announced the change of the flag like they have announced other things publicly. Even so, the flag at the UN charter is still the tri-color flag. But we need to bring a reliable source that shows they changed it. We can't assume they changed it without a source. Akmal94 (talk) 22:55, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 * What @Akmal94 said, they haven't stated a flag change whatsoever and the official flag is the white background with the shahadah. This is pure common sense on itself. Noorullah21 (talk) 02:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

You're not understanding what i am saying, the white flag is not the official flag because the Taliban haven't announced that it is. So its pure speculation and we can't assume on speculation alone. We need a reliable source that states they changed it. In the mean time, it would be better if they use the old flag in the infobox. Akmal94 (talk) 04:40, 30 October 2021 (UTC)


 * D Until now, we still don't have good sourcing surrounding the white and black flag. We don't have official statements from the Taliban about it, nor external reliable sources treating this flag as the flag of Afghanistan. (I would not expect say foreign government sources to do so, but some news or academic sources would be expected at some point.) This is opposed to say coverage of the new government (eg.). Given reliable sources so far treat these topics differently, some comments above suggesting treatment of the flag has repercussions throughout the rest of the article, and even throughout the rest of the infobox, are misplaced. With that in mind, D also does not mean the "Crimean approach", which is an anomaly among Wikipedia articles. I suspect we will move towards A eventually, as reliable sources do, but we should not trying to get ahead of reliable sources. CMD (talk) 02:50, 2 November 2021 (UTC)


 * B - I just share my personal experience with Talibans. I live in Iran. Two Afghan people (A father and daughter) have refuged to us because of the current chaos in their country. They belong to an ethnic group named Hazaras. Many of them have been tortured or even killed by Talibans which always had a grudge against them. Hearing stories like this hurts my feelings and it's clearly against humanity. So please remove their flag. Korata M. (talk) 08:45 UTC 4 November 2021
 * Not A. Wikipedia follows, it doesn't lead, and here it seems Wikipedia is leading. Independent reliable sources such as the BBC continue to use the flag of the Republic, as do international organizations, though they are not typically independent on this matter. BilledMammal (talk) 06:58, 7 November 2021 (UTC)


 * A The point is to show the actual flag used in the territory controlled by the actual government. It would be very misleading to put the flag of the Islamic Republic as representative of the country Afghanistan in the infobox. There is no dispute on the ground here; the Islamic Republic has no influence. The objections that in international law the tricolour is used, and that sources still use it, is valid. However, this should not change the main visual identifier. Perhaps the flag can be shown and the matter treated in the Foreign relations section and in the Foreign relations of Afghanistan article. The fact that entities which in some sense represent Afghanistan, like the cricket team and embassies, use a different flag, is irrelevant. Compare with Taiwan. No one would propose that the infobox flag in the Taiwan article should be the flag of Olympic Chinese Taipei. That flag is even approved by the government, so making an exception here makes even less sense. Crimea is a geographic region, not a country. Any moral objections, please consider that what the Taliban has been doing will not be stopped by changing the infobox representation. If you consider what they have been doing bad, then it is in fact more relevant to show who exactly is behind it. The Islamic Republic is not the perpetrator of the Taliban's actions. In conclusion: Write about how the tricolour is still used and recognised in appropriate sections, but do not change the current flag in the infobox. Dege31 (talk) 12:13, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Comment you might want to change emblem to flag in Option A for clarity's sake as the Emblem and Flag of the Taliban are two separate things. BSMRD (talk) 17:58, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Done :)
 * Comment This RfC could affect / be affected by an ongoing RfC at Flag of Afghanistan. Should this discussion wait for that one to conclude? It'd be quite a mess if the flag article and the country article discuss the same issue at the same time but come to different conclusions. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 20:56, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Follow-up: After reading the rationales of the editors who !voted for option D, I realized this conversation is also redundant and could affect / be affected by another proposal on this talk page. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><b style="background-color:#07d;color:#FFF"> Vanilla </b><b style="background-color:#749;color:#FFF"> Wizard </b></b> 💙 04:08, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Note It appears the embassies which are still flying the tricolour aren't under the control of the current Taliban government. --Llewee (talk) 13:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Are there any sources that the Taliban have adopted their flag as the flag of Afghanistan? What reliable sources are showing this flag as the Afghani flag? TFD (talk) 03:55, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? We don't need an actual "credible" source for something that's basically common knowledge. There's countless videos and images of Afghan cities, as well as from Taliban press conferences, official meetings and so on and so on, where this is the only flag displayed. We would need "credible sources" for any specific dimensions or writing font or size or whatnot. But, the fact that the white shahada flag is Taliban government's official flag, is not disputed. BasilLeaf (talk) 20:03, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * We have sources indicating that the Taliban consider the current regime a restoration of their old one, and a source indicating that the white field with a black shahada is the flag of said old regime. What more, other than basic inference, do we need? WittyWidi (talk) 17:10, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * That's original synthesis. We need a source that states that the flag is the flag of the current regime. Kahastok talk 19:15, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Which is unattainable. We shouldn't be beholden to the Taliban explicitly overriding the tricolour when they never considered the tricolour to be legitimate to begin with. Synth it is, but synth is unavoidable in this case, unless we want to avoid the issue entirely by holding the bar of verifiability much too high. At the end it's not a perfect solution to use the shahada flag, but it's better than the alternatives which are to either fail to publish notable and reasonably verifiable, with minimal synth to the extent it's not really OR, or to publish downright untrue/unverifiable information (i.e. hold the Islamic Republic as current in the infobox in the face of contradictory sources that it no longer exists). In general, not from a strictly encyclopedic POV but from a more semantic POV, I don't get the fascination on this talk page with wanting the Taliban to publish a statement saying that "Yes, in fact, this is now the flag of Afghanistan" when the fact that they never considered the tricolour and the regime flying it legitimate makes it exceedingly clear to a reasonable person that the chances of them doing so are next to none. WittyWidi (talk) 18:31, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think anyone has said that the source has to be the Taliban. Just, a reliable source saying what you propose that we say, that the black-on-white flag is the current flag of Afghanistan.  And if there is genuinely no reliable source on the entire planet that makes this claim then we have absolutely no business in trying to get there first. Kahastok talk 18:39, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * this source, like many others with the same meaning, says the following: "Many Afghans say they miss their national standard, a gift from India which once floated above the city. At 97ft x 65ft, there was no bigger tricolour in the country. The Taliban pulled down the green, black and red mega-flag. They’ve speedily produced huge quantities of their white banner with its black Arabic shahada - Islamic declaration of faith - but not yet a supersized one." What is insufficient about that in your opinion? We can move forward from there. WittyWidi (talk) 15:13, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It doesn't say that the "white banner with its black Arabic shahada" is the flag of Afghanistan. It says it's the flag of the Taliban.  Which is something I think everyone accepts. Kahastok talk 15:35, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Found a source saying it is the flag of [the Islamic Emirate of] Afghanistan: The flag of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (Taliban) is raised at the military airfield in Kabul, Afghanistan, September 5, 2021 WittyWidi (talk) 23:21, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The "national standard" mentioned is the tricolour. If anything, this is a source to support maintaining the tricolour as the flag of Afghanistan. CMD (talk) 16:17, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a note that several international orgs/embassies still use the tricolor could be good, rather than just putting both flags next to each other as if they were coequal? Side note, who is staffing these embassies? It's not like there is a government to pay them. BSMRD (talk) 13:54, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It appears from the source that their being funded through payments for consular assistance. It seems a bit dubious to me to even describe them as national embassies any more as they don't seem to be linked to any wider diplomatic structure.--Llewee (talk) 15:59, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note for Flawed RFC As stated, "This RFC is flawed as written. Because the question narrowly focusses on the flag, to the exclusion of other aspects such as the name, A and D are the only conclusions that make any sense. The alternatives require that we represent the tricolour as the flag of the Islamic Emirate (which it clearly isn't). I don't accept that limiting the discussion in this way is appropriate. The question is, or should be, whether this article should accept as uncontroversial fact that the Taliban are the government of Afghanistan, a POV that is rejected by every government on the planet. Kahastok talk 21:46, 16 October 2021", Kahastok is right, putting the Afghan flag on the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan rather then the Taliban flag makes no sense, this RFC is flawed, and A or D are the only appropriate approaches. Noorullah21 (talk) 01:08, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Close on 31 October
This is an improper close. It was done by someone who has already given an opinion, and treats the discussion as a vote. The discussion was still ongoing and it is far from obvious that, if the discussion were allowed to reach its natural end, an unbiased closer would have reached the same conclusion.

If the close were to stand, it would give rise to precisely the same issues that led to the RFC being opened in the first place, since that also arose from an improperly-closed RFC. The close should thus be reverted. Kahastok talk 10:32, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed, the discussion was far from over even if most people agreed on AWittyWidi (talk) 16:47, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * reverted Noorullah21 (talk) 17:48, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

When the RFC template expires, a request for closure & a ruling, will be made at the Closure requests page. GoodDay (talk) 23:57, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 November 2021
In the 21st Century section, under Contemporary History, change the caption of the image titled "U.S. troops and Air Force choppers in Afghanistan, 2008" to read "U.S. troops and Chinooks in Afghanistan, 2008". The USAF never used CH-47 "Chinooks" during the Afghanistan conflict - Only UH-1, UH-1H, and UH-1N "Iroquois" helicopters. The Army is the only branch of the U.S. Military to use CH-47's. 192.223.242.29 (talk) 10:33, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Good catch. BSMRD (talk) 13:57, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Rahbari Shura as legislature
According to the news going around every day,the Rahbari Shura is likely the Legislature of Afghanistan,we should add it to the infobox CuboidalBrake06 (talk) 04:28, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * We should not add anything to the infobox that isn't in the article with solid sourcing. If you can provide the reliable sources calling it the legislature, that is a helpful start. CMD (talk) 04:51, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Hmm okay CuboidalBrake06 (talk) 14:19, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

section: Human rights in Afghanistan
Currently the "Human rights" part of the page has no information under it. Would it make sense to copy the text from the same section of the old Islamic Republic of Afghanistan's page? [|(Old.)]CallidSea (talk) 04:09, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

International recognition
Currently, no nation recognizes the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, instead continuing to recognize the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. I added this to the lede as an WP:ALTNAME (and recognized as the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan), but it was reverted, with the summary saying that the Republic is defunct.

To use the language of the linked article, in de facto terms that is probably true, but in de jure terms it is not, and as such it would seem appropriate to mention both the "locally official" and the "internationally official" name of the country. If there was already a discussion on this, I apologize; Tartan357 mentioned that there was already a consensus on this question, but I haven't been able to find it. BilledMammal (talk) 06:50, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Please read the . ― Tartan357  Talk 06:51, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I saw that RFC, but I don't believe it applies. It requires us to "reflect the current de facto political situation", but international recognition, in the context of international recognition, is relevant and outside the scope of "the current de facto political situation" and thus outside the scope of that RFC. BilledMammal (talk) 07:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Unarchived this discussion; based on the lack of follow up comment, I assume there is no objection to reimplementing the edit, but I wanted to explicitly ask first. BilledMammal (talk) 04:48, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's an assumption that will work out. The countries who recognize the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan recognize this state, not the de facto state in this article. Mixing the two makes little sense. Ved havet ≈ (talk) 22:37, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * This article covers the country, from pre-history to the present day; it isn't limited to the de facto state. When it comes to the country, I would think that international recognition is relevant. Even if we don't have "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" as an alt-title, I would think we need to include this information in the lede, similar to how it is included in the Northern Cyprus or Taiwan article. BilledMammal (talk) 22:53, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Notably, those two examples actually control (some of) the territory they purport to represent. The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan does not. BSMRD (talk) 23:13, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I suppose this is a two part question. First, should we include a statement in the lede that the Islamic Emirate is unrecognized? Second, should we include a statement about what is recognized?
 * The first seems uncontroversial; most states with broad lack of recognition have this stated in the lede. The second seems to follow from the first; rather than leaving the user confused or uninformed about the international recognition we should mention that the Islamic Republic is the recognized state for the country, similar to how in the Northern Cyprus article we explain that most countries recognize it as being part of the Republic of Cyprus. BilledMammal (talk) 23:25, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The state of Afghanistan is fully recognized. It's not like Northern Cyprus, where officially it doesn't even exist as an entity. It is only the current government which is unrecognized, and using the formal long form names as proxy for government recognition feels a bit off. CMD (talk) 01:34, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I would say that the country is recognized, but the de facto state is not. As a starting point, would you agree that this fact needs to be reflected, somehow, in the lede? BilledMammal (talk) 01:38, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Certainly the lead spends too much time on history, leaving it with little coverage of the current country. It should cover governance, including the international isolation of the regime. CMD (talk) 01:52, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * To start with, perhaps we can add "As the Islamic Emirate, it is internationally unrecognized, with all countries continuing to recognize the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as the legitimate government." in between the current first and second sentences?
 * In terms of cutting back the history, I've made a bold edit; feel free to revert. BilledMammal (talk) 04:23, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I would prefer as noted above not to substitute "Islamic Emirate" and "Islamic Republic" for the different regimes, as it gives the terms significant meaning I have not seen reflected in reliable sources. I also have not seen much indicating the previous government retains any sort of overt support that validates due mention in such a way, better to leave it out of the lead. CMD (talk) 06:01, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The overt support would be that the former regime continues to enjoy international recognition, as well as continuing to control Afghanistan's UN seat. However, can I ask how you would propose including information about international recognition? BilledMammal (talk) 06:08, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * As that article says, keeping the existing ambassador one isn't support of a rival government, it's simply the maintaining of a holding pattern. For the lead summary, I would simply say that no other country has recognized the government, which is about the detail that the body gets into at any rate. CMD (talk) 07:40, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It should remain as Islamic Emirate, it does not matter if the Taliban are recognized or not, these are the de-facto rulers of the nation. Noorullah21 (talk) 20:00, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No one is suggesting otherwise; what is being discussed is whether we should mention which entity is recognized as the de-jure rulers of the nation. BilledMammal (talk) 00:13, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It's complicated, but my point was that the Republic continues to be relevant internationally, due to facts such as that they continue to control Afghanistan's UN seat, and thus it is due to mention them in the lede. BilledMammal (talk) 00:13, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * "The Republic" doesn't control the UN seat though, as it doesn't really exist. It doesn't seem to be like Myanmar where an official shadow government has been set up. The UN seat is just one person. CMD (talk) 02:12, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

The Official website of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan
The Official website of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is https://www.alemarah.af Advisor & Spokesperson of Ministry of information and culture Abdul Wahid Rayan tweeted on 20 Nov 2021. The official website of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan should be edited on this Article. Reference: https://twitter.com/AWahidRayan1/status/1461920926099034113?s=20 ZAHOOR AHMED (talk) 17:43, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Official websites are not included in country articles, but it may be worth bringing this up at Government of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. CMD (talk) 02:17, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Correction needed in Moto
In Moto its not Muhammadun. CORRECT is Muhammadur. 103.7.79.65 (talk) 11:50, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 November 2021
"Afghanistan shares borders with Pakistan AND INDIA to the south." Only Pakistan is mentioned. 61.3.227.8 (talk) 16:49, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done including a short border with Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, claimed by India. Looks like this is already covered. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:53, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Afghanistan
If you change the afghan flag and falsely claim that they are legitimate rules of Afghanistan you are supporting terrorism. What I suggest is keep the flag if you want to but label them as a terrorist organisation. 109.249.187.83 (talk) 17:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia isn't a place to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. We give them no legitimacy by using their information; we simply recognize the verifiable fact that the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is in power in the country now. WittyWidi (talk) 16:22, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Dari, the official language, should be listed as Dari Persian, hence Dari is a dialect of the Persian language. It is not different. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.194.236 (talk) 17:55, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

"Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 2 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. ― Tartan357  Talk 05:33, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 December 2021
I would like to add the years of Afghanistan as it is no longer a "country" as the taliban have changed it. 2600:1000:B07B:66A2:F527:40E:61AD:A254 (talk) 15:50, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:56, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Economic info and laws
Section including minimum wage information should be removed. There's no verifiable source that this is still in effect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.10.112.125 (talk) 18:00, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 December 2021
It's illegal to us the Taliban's Flag in India. So please change the flag pic 103.47.33.208 (talk) 11:29, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: WP:NOTCENSORED ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:02, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Notice of relevant Commons RfC: Target of redirect File:Flag of Afghanistan.svg
There is an RfC ongoing at Commons over the target of the redirect. ― Tartan357  Talk 05:33, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

our flag is not this
Our flag is is not this our flag is       blak red green  you must change your idea 103.215.210.105 (talk) 11:20, 13 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The flag of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is the Taliban flag with the white background and the Shahadah on it. Noorullah21 (talk) 15:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Population
Article says 31.4 million, infobox says 41 million. This number should probably be consistent throughout the article Oeoi (talk) 18:47, 13 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Fixed, it is 40.2 million. Noorullah21 (talk) 19:07, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Lack of objective display of the de jure state of Afghanistan
Please revert the flag and title to the Islamic Republic, the official government, or at least keep the neutral format for the end of august with no specified format, if you still desire to come across as a encyclopedia. Unfortunately, you have taken a political stance, and by presenting a fascist organization as the official government (even through it is acting), Wikipedia has lost its credibility as an objective textbook/encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.88.200.193 (talk) 10:21, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
 * We have not taken a political stance. We are merely portraying the de facto situation. Legitimacy is debatable, while who actually rules in Afghanistan is an objective fact, and unfortunately, the rulers are the emirate. If we use the so-called "Legitimacy" of the former Afghan government as a reason to change it, what's next? Changing Taiwan to Chinese Taipei? Deleting all the articles on members of CIS-2? ☢️Plutonical☢️  ᶜᵒᵐᵐᵘⁿᶦᶜᵃᵗᶦᵒⁿˢ  02:28, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Not listening to people who try to threaten us with lost "credibility" or donations if we don't distort the truth to fit their political preferences is why we still have credibility. ― Tartan357  Talk 02:36, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * ^^ (I personally am a Taliban supporter so I won't be biased on this stance), but, you have to realize the fact of the situation that Afghanistan is de-facto ruled by the emirate, Afghanistan is hence represented by this, there has been RFC's as well to decide what the flag should be, etc. (the taliban aren't fascist by the way) Noorullah21 (talk) 14:07, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Ethnic percentage wrong not official
How can t be shytaaan they secret hypocrites they don’t accurately put the real data produced even though people has the real data. May god give guidance be honest with people stop racism in secret 2A07:23C0:0:6000:0:0:0:29A0 (talk) 01:52, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

What CuboidalBrake06 (talk) 23:31, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

The real flag of Taliban looks like the saudi Arabia
So alot of interviews and meetings with taliban official's with there flag on the background,but the flag looks like Saudi Arabia but without the sword and white,because it used frequently in Afghanistan and the flag which was used during the first taliban conference in August 17th isn't used in all of Afghanistan (Ex: police cars with the flag attached, governor's buildings) and proof that the flag that exists in wikipedia is not the same as the flag they hoisted at the Arg (Presidential palace) CuboidalBrake06 (talk) 16:44, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That doesn't appear to be the case:, , , . ― Tartan357  Talk 21:21, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Tajikistan is to the North, not North-East
The country, Tajikistan, is located to the North of Afghanistan, not North-East.

The Afghans themselves refer to it as in the North. The word “Shamali”, from the Arabic word “Al-Shammal” means North and is used to describe Tajiks and Tajikistan in the North.

The narrow stretch that borders China, the Wakhan Corridor, is what stretches to the North-East; therefore, China is bordering in the North-East.

I had changed it to place Tajikistan in the North, although the edit was undid with the reason being “Tajikistan can be considered in the North-East”. Well, by whom is it considered? Tajikistan looks as if it is in the North, The Afghans themselves consider it in the North as well. WatanWatan2020 (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Tone of Lead is overtly Political
Regarding the mention of the countries that Afghanistan borders, the inclusion of the parenthesis following Pakistan seems to be overtly political. Afghanistan indeed borders Pakistan to the east; whatever dispute there may be between India and Pakistan regarding some territory, it should not make its way onto this article, not least in the lead. It makes the article seem very unprofessional and a potential ground for political fights between Pakistanis and Indians. The parenthesis should be removed. WatanWatan2020 (talk) 16:25, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I disagree. If we remove the parenthesis, then we are siding with Pakistan.  Mentioning the Indian position seems like the most neutral thing to do. --Cerebellum (talk) 17:34, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Then why doesnt the Indian article mention that it borders Afghanistan with the inclusion of the situation regarding Gilgit Baltistan, all in the lead.

As I mentioned before, this article has become a tug of war between Pakistanis and Indians, therefore, such information should not make it onto Afghanistan’s article, especially if such information is not going to be implemented and/or tussled upon in India’s or Pakistan’s articles. WatanWatan2020 (talk) 16:37, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Islamic totalitarianism in Afghanistan
I am watching The Handmaid's Tale (TV series). I can tell you that today Afghanistan is so much more totalitarian than the fictional The Handmaid's Tale. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/17/afghanistan.weekend7 Right now, women in Afghanistan need chaperones like The Handmaid's Tale and can't travel overseas. Please see the article https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/28/asia/afghanistan-taliban-women-travel-intl/index.html

--14Jenna7Caesura (talk) 23:06, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm happy you're enjoying The Handmaid's Tale, but this comparison that you are drawing is original research. The 2001 Taliban state was totalitarian, but a lot has changed since then and the current Islamic Emirate has barely started governing. Neither article you have cited uses the term "totalitarian", and the first one is from 2001. Without sufficient sources to back that label up, this is a clear WP:POVCAT. ― Tartan357  Talk 03:56, 2 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Assuming sexist policies are noble, if you are rules lawyering to demand a totalitarian label in the last 30 days, here you go: "Because the Taliban is a totalitarian movement, they are not politically accountable to anyone." December 2, 2021 https://www.pitt.edu/pittwire/features-articles/pitt-effort-relocating-afghan-scholars-us --14Jenna7Caesura (talk) 04:10, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * How is it rules lawyering to request a source for a highly contentious label? This is editing 101, not some technicality. Wikipedia is a reference site. Get used to it. The University of Pittsburgh piece is not enough, we're going to need a lot of high-quality sources saying the country is under a totalitarian regime, not just one source saying the Taliban have totalitarian goals. Please read WP:POVCAT, the category needs to reflect well-sourced content in the article. We argue over the content first (using reliable sources for everything), and then apply categories uncontroversially to reflect that content. You are approaching this the opposite way. ― Tartan357  Talk 04:37, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia officially recognized Taliban
So you officially recognized Taliban even I'm Afghan and all the world don't recognize them. Well done wikipedia 185.37.110.40 (talk) 20:04, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a government, we don't "recognize" anyone. Please read the . ― Tartan357  Talk 21:07, 4 January 2022 (UTC)


 * This is an ongoing problem in Wikipedia, where editors use their own criteria to determine the legitimacy of governments, rather than follow reliable sources. Similar discussions have emerged with Taiwan, Venezuela and other countries. We could avoid a lot of these arguments by simply reflecting reliable sources. When they show the Taliban flag as the flag of Afghanistan, so should this article. Until then, it should show the same flag that is recognized in reliable sources. TFD (talk) 23:27, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Reliable sources state overwhelmingly the Taliban have taken over. This commenter did not even mention the flag, but I will reiterate that the flag should not be used as a back door to contradict what the sources say about the Taliban being in government. ― Tartan357  Talk 00:17, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 January 2022
Taliban's Flag Ko Hatao 2409:4073:2082:85EA:D9:48:3E3A:22D5 (talk) 07:41, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:30, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 January 2022
The name MUST change to Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. The Flag image MUST change to Afghanistan flag. The current FLAG is for the Terrorist Group T-ban. AfgEdit (talk) 10:17, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. CMD (talk) 10:23, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * See the . ― Tartan357  Talk 11:13, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 January 2022 (2)
The flag of Afghanistan is still internationally recognized to be black, red and green. The white flag with the black inscription is the flag of the Taliban who are not internationally recognized as the governing body of Afghanistan.

Smith, Whitney. "flag of Afghanistan". Encyclopedia Britannica, 13 Nov. 2018, https://www.britannica.com/topic/flag-of-Afghanistan. Accessed 7 January 2022.

https://icct.nl/publication/recognition-talibans-international-legal-status/ 2600:1700:9E80:4360:1D8F:D158:6BAC:2ECA (talk) 22:27, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. BSMRD (talk) 23:50, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It's entirely clear what changes they want, they want the flag in the infobox changed just like most other edit requests. Direct them to the . ― Tartan357  Talk 01:19, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Disclaimer: I'm not in favor of the Taliban. the changes you're suggesting are based on a point of view or best, ideological. That is, you want information about Afghanistan to be presented according to how you and many people and countries would like Afghanistan to be viewed rather than how the country really is right now. This is against WP:NPOV. WP strives to present information based on a neutral point of view. In reality, the Taliban are in control of Afghanistan. When they took over, they established a government and decided to change the official name of the country and raised a flag they deemed was the official flag of the country and standard of the ruling government. That's the reality, at least at the moment. Whether Afghans living outside of Afghanistan or other countries recognize these changes or not, suppose to be a secondary issue as far as facts or realities about Afghanistan are concerned. Such views should not prevail over the realities happening in Afghanistan, to make their way into the WP entry about the country. Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 18:06, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zach4596.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:31, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bwiffen1234.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The Emirate of Afghanistan is not a country
Why is this page about the new supposed Taliban country? Even if it were a new country it is not the same as the Republic. 51.9.157.151 (talk) 22:38, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Read the . There is no "new country", the country is and always has been Afghanistan. The country is under a new government, though. Who is saying the Islamic Emirate is the same as the republic? The republic has its own article. ― Tartan357  Talk 22:49, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * For information about the (deposed) Republic, see the article Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. This article is about Afghanistan as a whole and it's current governing entity, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. If you would like more on the group in control of that entity, see Taliban.

Why is the anthem audio removed?
I wlnder why it got removed CuboidalBrake06 (talk) 07:02, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell it has not been. It may take a second to load if you have a poor connection. BSMRD (talk) 18:00, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Recognition
The Islamic emirate is not a recognised state, the recognised state- Islamic Republic must still be on display on Wikipedia until the Islamic emirate is recognised which it is not. 92.40.172.107 (talk) 12:35, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Requesting change coat of arms to the most frequently used state emblem
I request to confirmed users to change the coat of arms into State Emblem: State_Emblem_of_the_Islamic_Emirate_of_Afghanistan.jpg This is the only emblem used frequently by the government,ex: ministry of foreign affairs/defence/ARG1880(official presidential palace channel on YouTube)/ministry of connection/ministry of Interior CuboidalBrake06 (talk) 14:14, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Please rewrite this part in the lead
''Afghanistan's history since the late 1970s has been dominated by prolonged warfare, starting with the country becoming a socialist state and provoking the Soviet–Afghan War, followed by three consecutive civil wars (1989–1992, 1992–1996, and 1996–2001) that resulted in the takeover of the country by the Taliban and its totalitarian regime. The Taliban were later overthrown by a United States-led invasion in 2001 which began a 20-year-long war that concluded with the 2021 Taliban offensive and the resulting fall of Kabul in August, with the Taliban returning to power and regaining control of the government. ''

It is way too convoluted and provides too many details not necessary in the lead. A simplification is needed.

Here is my proposal:

''Afghanistan's history since the late 1970s has been dominated by coups, revolutions, invasions, insurgencies and civil wars. The country is currently under to control of the Taliban, which came back to power after a 20-year long war. ''
 * I have implemented this, which seems a small but reasonable first step to cutting down the excessive history in the lead. CMD (talk) 00:50, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Afghanistan's flag
That is not the real flag of Afghanistan, it just belongs to a group. Atal Afgan (talk) 03:24, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Please read the . The "group" it belongs to is now the government of Afghanistan. ― Tartan357  Talk 03:27, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Should that point about the flag be added to the FAQ? It does not currently explicitly mention the flag, and seeing that many of the concerns raised on the page are specifically about the flag of Afghanistan, many people may not be making the connection. As a question, it would likely start with, "Q: The flag is wrong!" –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:44, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 February 2022
Afghanistan's is the one with black, red and green colour not the white one so please change the flag as soon as possible as it's really offensive to the people of Afghanistan. 31.205.28.112 (talk) 01:52, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. See flag discussions above. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:55, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Idk what you mean offensive to the people of Afghanistan, I am from Afghanistan and I see it good. Noorullah21 (talk) 03:11, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Articles on Afghanistan need to have their images demilitarize
I posted this at Portal talk:Afghanistan and I think it's appropriate here as well. It's extremely relevant to this article and all articles on Afghanistan-related topics.

Images that illustrate topics about Afghanistan, particularly geographical locations, have a disproportionate share of images that depict the military. It's mostly the US military, but it's really a problem even when it's any military presence.

Any image of any place in Afghanistan that isn't simply a military base or installation should not have a military presence by default. It's simply not a neutral depiction of the country. Yes, it's been ravaged by war and conflcit for 40 years, but that's not a valid reason to make soldiers a default presence in something like half the picture here on Wikipedia. Including images of Afghan villages as a backdrop to military personnel is no more valid than depicting US cities as with police in the foreground of half the images.

Please help fix this by switching out images of the military, regardles of nationality, with more neutral photos.

Peter Isotalo 11:07, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't see many of those images in this article; I'd recommend instead posting at WT:wikiProject Afghanistan with a crossref from WP:NPOVN. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 12:15, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Afghanistan flag
The white flag which Afghanistan has now is the flag of peace and a black flag same as Afghanistan white flag is a time of war ( jihad) Please correct your information you put out thank you 2A01:4C8:821:482D:1:2:CC8D:C4BF (talk) 19:22, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
 * No such variant is mentioned in the Flag of Afghanistan article; please provide a reliable source supporting your assertion. Even if this is true, that information would be better fit for the flag article than the main. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 10:01, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 February 2022 (2)
152.36.218.172 (talk) 17:52, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --Ferien (talk) 18:44, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 February 2022
The Afghanistan flag is not accurate. It has been edited by the Taliban and we shouldn’t promote that. The flag is the black, green and red that has always been. Please do not let the Taliban edit and erase the history of this country. 🇦🇫 71.251.16.121 (talk) 15:49, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Please read the top of the page: "Since the current government is that of the Taliban, consensus in this RfC is to identify the current flag of Afghanistan as that of the Taliban." --Ferien (talk) 18:44, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The history of the country has not been "erased"; you can find information about the previous regime in great detail at Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. ― Tartan357  Talk 09:01, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

False statements from Wikipedia
This is really a big shame for a well known name like wikipedia on doing such thing. Giving false information about Afghanistan’s national flag and national anthem which is not accepted by not only the world but majority of the people of Afghanistan. 2001:8004:1284:574F:602F:8AB3:7864:5A3F (talk) 21:59, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Not accepted ≠ false. ― Tartan357  Talk 00:00, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Afghanistan Central Asian inaccurate
Afghanistan is considered South Asian by most reputable sources Afghanistan is a member of the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation, the Untied Nations considers Afghanistan South Asian ref (https://www.un.org/development/desa/dpad/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/WESP2019_BOOK-CH3-5-south-asia-en.pdf), and CIA world fact book considers Afghanistan South Asian. Not to mention wiki’s own articles on South Asia includes Afghanistan and Wikis article on Central Asia excludes Afghanistan we should strive for consistency. I have an issue with the framing saying it’s at the crossroads of South and Central Asia is somewhat implying it’s in neither which is wrong. Black roses124 (talk) 01:21, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
 * But here's the thing. Afghanistan is both South Asian and Central Asian, while at the same time it's neither.

BasilLeaf (talk) 16:08, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Modern political definition of "South Asia" comes from British colonial rule of India. Afghanistan was never ruled by the British, even though the British did have an ambition to take over Afghanistan.
 * 2) Modern political definition of "Central Asia" comes from Russian colonial rule of "Transoxiana" more or less, followed by the USSR's rule of the 5 Central Asian Republics. Afghanistan was never incorporated in USSR, nor even ever fully under Soviet occupation in the 1980s.
 * 3) Culturally, it is fair to say that Afghanistan is both, with its northern and southern borders being arbitrary lines dividing Uzbeks/Tajiks and Pashtuns respectively.

Intro
The intro is "Afghanistan (/æfˈɡænɪstæn, æfˈɡɑːnɪstɑːn/…" would "Afghanistan (/æfˈɡænɪstæn, -ˈɡɑːnɪstɑːn/…" be better? 78.17.143.44 (talk) 16:05, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed edit request, 18/3/2022
The lede reads "Known as the 'Graveyard of Empires' the land has historically been home to various peoples and has witnessed numerous military campaigns, including those by Alexander the Great, the Maurya Empire, Arab Muslims, the Mongols, the British, the Soviet Union, and most recently by an American-led coalition.", but that is inaccurate. Of course, the most recent military campaign experienced was that pursued by the Taliban. I propose the lede is changed to: "Known as the 'Graveyard of Empires' the land has historically been home to various peoples and has witnessed numerous military campaigns, including those by Alexander the Great, the Maurya Empire, Arab Muslims, the Mongols, the British, the Soviet Union, the United States, and most recently by the Taliban.". Thx!

Anoncocoa1 (talk) 17:10, 18 March 2022 (UTC)


 * The direct term of said meaning would usually refer to Afghans themselves, and the Taliban would count, alongside this, most of the military campaigns lead by many did not see de-facto rule over Afghanistan, rather dejure, you can see this with the Arab Muslims with many Afghan enclaves of states, or the Mauryans relatively dejure owning such lands, while enforcing little over it, and most applies to the others. The Mongols is a bit of a differable term, Afghan relatively used to refer to Pashtun or Pathan, back then. And as a result, the Mongols were defeated by the Turko-Afghan Khaljis in india whenever they attempted to invade, and the Khaljis ruled mostly over northern India, expanding southward, however, going to a point of modern afghanistan itself, regardless of that you could retribute that as revenge.
 * Anyway, ignore the short explanation if you want to read it, the actual meaning is rather sparse, but relatively untrue but true at the same time. Noorullah21 (talk) 17:29, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

The flag
No one recognize the taliban terrorist flag, so Why would you? There are still war in Afghanistan, and the Taliban dont have 100% control of all Afghanistan. Remove the terrorist flag, and place it with the nice old flag. 🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫 31.3.73.182 (talk) 17:49, 19 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Please see Talk:Afghanistan/Archive 12 for the reasons why the flag was added. --Ferien (talk) 18:02, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Remove the terrorist flag!!!!!!!!
It is still this flag 🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫🇦🇫 Remove the flag If you still carry a little humanity within you. 🇦🇫🇦🇫 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.195.3.169 (talk) 10:19, 29 March 2022 (UTC)


 * The "terrorist flag" you call is now the flag of the organization that controls the government of Afghanistan. Wikipedia is not a place for you to express your personal feelings. Twa0726 (talk) 08:53, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Famine?
I'm not sure if this is the correct place to bring it up, but shouldn't there be a page for the ongoing famine in Afghanistan that came with the end of the war? There is a wikipage for the famine in Yemen, so why not one for Afghanistan? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Genabab (talk • contribs) 09:38, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Flag
The only acceptable flag of Afghanistan by the people of Afghanistan is Black, Red and Green. 121.52.146.145 (talk) 19:12, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The current flag is indeed unacceptable to a lot of people, but that doesn't change the fact that it is the current flag. ― Tartan357  Talk 07:43, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

The Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 April 2022
In several places in this article, the Taliban regime in Afghanistan is referred to as an "emirate", reflecting the official name of the country. However, our own Wikipedia page defines an emirate as "a territory ruled by an emir". In other words, since there is no emir, I propose replacing "Unitary provisional theocratic Islamic emirate" with something like "Unitary provisional Islamic theocracy" and "where they established an emirate that gained international recognition from 3 countries" with "where they established a state that gained international recognition from 3 countries". SleepTrain456 (talk) 00:11, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. We follow what sources say. What you propose is WP:OR. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:17, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There is an emir. The leader is formally styled Amir al-Mu'minin,  and for this reason sources consider him an emir. An amir al-mu'minin is not a monarch, but emir has historically been used to refer to a variety of authority figures in the Arab world. Emir and Amir al-Mu'minin are Arabic titles with religious significance, but the Taliban speak Pashto, so they use a similar title for the official name of the office in Pashto, which corresponds more closely to "Leader" in English.     I hope that sheds some light on the issue. ―  Tartan357  Talk 07:04, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Evidently, I did not catch that detail about the "Amir al-Mu'minin". So, in a way, there is an emir of Afghanistan, not as a monarch, but in the simple sense of the word meaning "a leader". Therefore, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is an emirate, and I am willing to concede that in the name of knowledge, the purpose of this site. Thanks for the correction Tartan357! SleepTrain456 (talk) 01:17, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I think I should shed some light on this more, the former Afghan ruler Dost Mohammad Khan went under the title Amir al-Mu'minin but was also styled as Emir. Dost was regarded under both of these names, but you are right in this case, it is in simple sense literally just meaning leader. Noorullah21 (talk) 08:09, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Afghanistan is central Asian not south
Plese find historians to tell the truth about Afghanistan, the Aryan civilization to civilization of groups that couldn't conquer. Please promote my beautiful country with a wide variety of good things. Please find a historian so people can understand we as afghans go back to the cavemen. 209.171.88.94 (talk) 21:27, 7 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Tow (talk) 21:30, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Afghanistan is not south asia
I want you to put honest reliable source from scholars and historian. Not an opinion of individuals. What source can I give you. You don't call an an Afghan a South Asian it applies to Indians, Pakistani's and Bangladesh even Sri Lanka. Not Afghanistan. It's middle to west or Europe to South. Basically heart of Asian which is central. 209.171.88.94 (talk) 22:20, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 April 2022
In the Economy section, after mentioning the freezing assets of Afghanistan, we can add that United states decided to Give that money to the families of the 9/11. I have a link about the incident. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/11/politics/executive-order-afghanistan-9-11-humanitarian-aid/index.html StamfordBridge001 (talk) 06:40, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Salutations! For edit requests you have to provide the prose to be inserted; not simply state that prose about X should be generated. You would also indicate where to put said prose. Feel free to re-open should you decide to do so. Cheers! — Sirdog (talk) 19:48, 21 May 2022 (UTC)