Talk:African-American culture

This is well written
This is a good article, clearly all topics can not be covered in a Wikipedia article. However, there is always room to improve even the best of articles. Some of the comments stated are "nit picky". The view of homosexuals is not necessarily a part African-American culture. It is not influential to the present and it is not common practice. Being homophobic is not a universal consensus among African-Americans ; what is the percentage of African-Americans that are homophobic?

Perhaps, that commenter should consider writing a paragraph about African-American's feelings towards sexuality include that many African-Americans have a strong sense of spirituality and/or religious affiliations which is the basis of stigma towards homosexuals in MOST ( if not all) cultures. Homophobia should only be added under African-American culture if you will speak about African-American views on Sexuality as a whole, be sure to include "Men on the Down Low, The HIV/AIDS statistics, The Historical facts on Slave-Slave Master Relations, The Rate of Teenage Pregnancy, Etc." —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:Complicatedmoves (talk • contribs)
 * There are several examples of homophobia as a distinct facet of African American culture being observed in sociological studies.
 * It does seem that the expression of homophobia in African American communities is different from the expression elsewhere. Dalton (1989) observed that among communities of color (with African Americans the illustrative case) the response to homosexuality is characterized by "biosterous homophobic talk, tacit acceptance in practice, and a broad based conspiracy of silence." It is likely that this observation hold for certain and noncertain aspects of African American culture and life. The manifestations of homophobia must be recognized as a complex issue requiring a comparably complex assessment and strategy for effective action. Social workers speak out on the HIV/AIDS crisis: voices from and to African American communities Greenwood Publishing Group, 1999
 * African American gay and lesbian couples have similar relationships and face similar issues as do non-Black and White gay and lesbian couples. However, there are some issues that are unique because of race and sometimes class. Homophobia, doubling and tripling minority status, and fear of disclosure are issues affecting African American gay, lesbian, and bisexual (GLB) individuals. African American Psychology: From Africa to America SAGE, 2009
 * As an African-American lesbian who has been in a loving relationship for over two decades, I have been made well aware of the black community's discomfort with things gay. Our long and courageous history in the forefront of the struggle for civil rights notwithstanding, the leadership of black America -- politicians, ministers, business leaders -- has not been as outspoken as it could be and should be on the issue of gay rights. Homophobia and traditional religious teachings play a role in our silence. But the roots of our discomfort, I think, go deeper. Sadly, some African-Americans believe that it is only we who should benefit from the gains achieved by the civil rights movement of the 1960s and 1970s. They fear that to allow the gay community to enter the doors of opportunity opened by our struggle, to permit gays and lesbians to share in the fruits of that movement, will diminish those benefits for the black community. Truth is, there is more than enough to go around. Salon.com – An African-American lesbian talks about homophobia, Proposition 8 and African Americans, October 28, 2008
 * Former presidential candidate Rev. Al Sharpton fired up a crowd of some 150 people gathered at a forum in Atlanta Jan. 20, urging them to “turn up the heat” in black churches to combat clergy who preach anti-gay messages from their pulpits. “We must have this dialogue in the black church,” Sharpton said. “The black church must not be refuge for those who want to scapegoat and use violence on any community, including the gay and lesbian community.” Sharpton was a keynote speaker at the National Black Justice Coalition’s summit on homophobia in the black church held at First Iconium Baptist Church in Atlanta, Jan. 20-21. He recently made a public call to challenge anti-gay sentiments among notable black clergy leaders. “Martin Luther King said there are two types of leadership — there are those who are thermometers, who measure the temperature in the room, and those who are thermostats who change the temperature,” Sharpton told the applauding crowd. “I come to tell you to be thermostats. Turn up the heat in the black church. Make these people sweat,” he said. Sharpton said his participation in the summit, as well as his desire to urge the black church to address homophobia, came from having a lesbian sister as well as his friendship with Bayard Rustin, a gay man who worked with Martin Luther King Jr. Rustin organized the 1963 March on Washington that culminated with King’s “I Have a Dream” speech. Sharpton also criticized some black churches that he said were manipulated by traditionally white religious conservative organizations to support efforts in 2004 to ban same-sex marriage in exchange for faith-based grants under President George W. Bush’s administration. Sharpton criticized those moves as creating a wedge issue to boost votes for Bush’s re-election. Sharpton chides black churches over homophobia, gay marriage
 * These are just a few examples, but there are literally thousands more and completely relevant to today. However, I agree that the section should be expanded to included sexuality as a whole in African American culture, especially since domestic violence also has an unusually high rate among African American couples: see Family interventions in domestic violence: a handbook of gender-inclusive theory and treatment and Interpersonal violence in the African American community: evidence-based prevention and treatment practices Volume 6 of Issues in children's and families' lives. Of course, there are an equal number of studies also report on the positive influences among African American relationships, parenting and same-sex civil rights issues, so it should be easy to remain NPOV. The Bookkeeper   (of the Occult)  07:48, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Settin' up New Year's Eve
In the back of my mind for a while now is a necessary addition to the "holidays and observances" portion of the article, which is the tradition of cleaning one's house to a fare-thee-well and then settin' up (sitting up) all night New Year's Eve -- either in meditation, prayer and reflection, or hosting friends and family. Churchified folks go to church. For some reason, it's a tradition I associate more with the Carolinas and that region more than with where my people come from (Texas and Louisiana). Old folks used to refer to it as "keepin' de watch," and a few years back, there was a group in D.C. who tried to revive the tradition and held a "Watch Night." deeceevoice (talk) 15:35, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Necessity or verifiability of this line?
"In fact, seventy to eighty percent of the customers at Ajes Salon in Chicago go natural, most commonly in the broad set or strong set styles. This harkens back to the Afros seen in Chicago in 1960s, except that "it is more tame than if it were naturally big and curly," said Tena Warren, an employee at the salon."

It's located toward the bottom of African_American_Culture.

Do we really need this here, and is it even verifiable or significant?

 Annihilan  07:25, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

"Under slavery, African Americans were not allowed to eat better cuts of meat, and after emancipation many often were too poor to afford them"

I was in lecture yesterday and I believe my professor said that according to new research, what was considered "better" cuts of meat in the Antebellum period was what we now consider the worse cuts of meat (ie. the backs of chickens, etc). Unfortunately I didn't write down the research she cited, but if anyone knows anything about that, maybe a comment should be added on that topic. Just mentioning this, since I was browsing through Wikipedia to fill in some holes in my understanding (researching for a term paper). -Rishi 136.152.179.236 (talk) 05:07, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

African American Contemporary Attire
Where is the entry on contemporary African-American clothing? I can understand the desire not to paint all blacks as gun-slinging gang bangers in a Wikipedia article, but the length this article goes to turn the other cheek is astounding. By the information on the entry on African-American attire alone, the only conclusion I can reasonably draw is that all African-Americans wear Kente cloth t-shirts and dress up in colorful clothes for church on Sunday. I have no desire to come off as racist, but there comes a point where you have to value information over political correctness (I can't believe I have to write this on Wikipedia). I'm not proposing that this kind of original research should be permissible in the article itself, but go outside for a day and conduct a little independent sociological research. What are most African-Americans wearing? This commonlaw verifiability should more than warrant an entry on urban African-American apparel under this article and, although I lack the means and knowledge to do so myself, I would like to request that an entry be formulated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.89.144 (talk) 00:58, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Neutrality & Citation
There's a lot of perspective and identity built into this article. It's sometimes subtle, but should be amended in the interest of neutrality guidelines. Here are some examples.

"Most of these neighborhoods are self-sufficient in that the schools, government, and commerce are all maintained by African Americans and are doing fairly well, if not better than, their white counterparts."

This is utopian-sounding. It's entirely too much to say without citation. "well, if not better than, their white counterparts" is a statement of fact which--and I doubt that sufficient data exists to prove this one way or the other, given how vague the criteria is--needs to be cited. What's more, it generally comes off as a statement with "something to prove". That's how bias creeps into these kids of articles. Maybe these communities really are great places with great schools, but that information needs to be presented objectively as a matter of facts based upon source-able evidence, not broad comparisons to vaguely defined "white counterparts". The whole thing is framed very politically, almost as one would when applying conflict theory.

"An area where African Americans outstrip whites in their conservatism is on the issue of homosexuality."

Again, this could very well be true, but without any data behind it should be reworded. Implicit in this sentence is the presupposition that "whites are extremely conservative, more so than blacks on every issue except for this one", which is a very broad, inaccurate and politically biased statement to make. Perhaps with some data displaying white attitudes towards homosexuality, compared to black attitudes, this could read "One conservative cause that resonates strongly amongst many black Americans is the rejection of homosexual culture." This is a much narrower statement which doesn't pigeon-hole any person or group. Still, if nobody has data to support it (and in this case, data almost certainly DOES exist), then the section needs to be removed. Note that all of the black leaders who support the homosexual cause, King and Sharpton, have citations, but the claim that blacks in general disagree remains naked.

"Immediately after slavery, African-American families struggled to reunite and rebuild what had been taken."

First of all, this whole sentence is a mouthful which does not read well aloud. Second of all, the phrase "rebuild what had been taken" seems to suggest that the families freed from slavery were the same abducted from Africa, when in fact they were the decedents many generations down. Might it be more accurate to express this as effectively starting from scratch? It is very unclear what exactly was taken and is being rebuilt.

There are many other statements like this in the article, but rather than changing them gung ho I thought I'd let the community weigh in on fixes to the problem to improve the page, both for verifiability and neutrality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Strangebrownbag (talk • contribs) 23:12, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Who defines black culture and what is the exact ethnic black makeup neccesary to be part of it?
I really want to know, what is black culture? I would want to know if there is any source that defines this?

How much mixed does one need to be to be excluded from black culture? since some ethnic groups that might or might not be black are not counted as "fully black" enough. so my question is what terms is defined by americas ruling establishment to define blackness?


 * I am by far not an expert on this topic, but my friends who seem to be "in the know" have set it at if you perceive yourself and other people perceive you as being black. Also, its important to note that while this applies largely to people of African origin, there are people of other ethnic groups who grow up in predominantly black areas that find this article applies largely to them. At my college, there were two caucasian girls in AA sororities. They spoke AAVE and grew up in largely black cities. There were also black girls who were in historically white sororities who grew up in largely white communities and none of this applies to. :-) Bali88 (talk) 23:53, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

African American Naming Traditions
First of all, well written article! Second, I'm writing an article on naming traditions in America and would like to include a section on AA naming traditions and how current naming conventions came about. I noticed there was no citation on that section, if anyone finds any good sources, could you notify me? Bali88 (talk) 04:18, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

83.209.66.204 (talk) 08:10, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

External links section
That link/page is removed and I guess it's moved to National Museum of African American History and Culture website. Then it's better to replace the dead link with new website link or use a Wayback Machine version of old page. --Zyma (talk) 23:18, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Who starts a sentence with "probably"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.177.76.165 (talk) 09:58, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Adding information under Dance, and Politics and Social Issues section
One of the uniquely African American forms of dancing, turfing, emerged out of social and political movements in the East Bay in the San Francisco Bay Area. Turfing is a hood dance and a response to the loss of African American lives, police brutality, and race relations in Oakland, California. The dance is an expression of Blackness, and one that integrates concepts of solidarity, social support, peace, and the discourse of the state of black people in our current social structures.

Ksundaramurthy (talk) 21:54, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Added information on the intersection of African American culture, and Politics and Social Issues. Tried to connect it to the previous part. These political and social sentiments have been expressed through hip-hop culture, including graffiti, break-dancing, rapping, and more. This cultural movement makes statements about historical, as well as present-day topics like street culture and incarceration, and often times expresses a call for change. Hip hop artists play a prominent role in activism and fighting social injustices, and has a cultural role in defining and reflecting on political and social issues.

Ksundaramurthy (talk) 23:09, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

The Nod


This comment from a black man traveling back in time to the 1950s got me wondering about this and when it began. In this case, they depict Wendell Scott as being alarmed by Rufus' gesture:
 * WS "What was that?"
 * RC "What was what?"
 * WS "You... shook your head at me."
 * RC "I was... I was... I was... never mind."

When he pointed it out, it seemed familiar but I hadn't thought about it until now. I can see this isn't the first show to comment on it. Black-ish (season 1) episode 3 (8 October 2014) is actually titled "the nod", and it appears to have spawned some responses:

However there's been coverage of this prior to the episode too:

I'm not really sure how far back we can find sources though. The following are examples of its use in blogs/forums although it wouldn't be a proper academic source, just evidence of it predating 2013:

Presently body language is mentioned under Dance, and Language focuses on the spoken word, but what about things like gestures? This seems like a notable topic worth mentioning somewhere, is anyone aware of a Wikipedia article which does so?

I found some longer alliterative references to this in some books as well:

Is anyone able to find any older instances, or recent sources which track the nod as predating 2004? Has there been enough coverage worth mentioning here or perhaps a related article somewhere? ScratchMarshall (talk) 03:47, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

African-American movies
Why is there no section about African-Americans in the film industry and African-American movies? It definitely need. There is a decent stub article African-American representation in Hollywood.--Andrew M. Vachin (talk) 17:35, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:African-American gospel which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:20, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Soul food versus African American foodways
Greetings! Soul food, as a term, did not come into regular use until the 1960s although African Americans were creating cuisines, cooking and eating for generations before that. How should we characterize African American cuisine through historical time? Zamboni54 (talk) 23:57, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The term 'soul food' has been around for centuries, not just since 1960-something. Your question makes no sense.72.174.131.123 (talk) 13:50, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 23 June 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved   -- Calidum  21:58, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

African-American culture → African American culture – The new title would be more consistent with the parent page, which is located at African Americans, not African-Americans. Dropping the hyphen has also become increasingly common, with the AP Stylebook joining the trend in 2019. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 18:10, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose According to Cambridge Dictionary, the hyphen is used for the adjective, but not for the noun. To me, this seems to be consistent with the usage of most articles I read on WP. --Rsk6400 (talk) 18:40, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The AP style change I noted above applies to nouns adjectives, not just adjectives nouns. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 19:41, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The style change doesn't apply to adjectives, but to nouns only. And because in the title of this article, "African-American" is an adjective, the AP style change doesn't apply here. --Rsk6400 (talk) 19:58, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oops, I meant to write it the other way around; I've struck and fixed my comments. I was correct about AP style, though. Here's their page, which specifically notes that the advice includes "compound proper nouns and adjectives". &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 20:32, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link to the style book. I also saw that my ODE doesn't make a distinction between noun and adjective. Still, a search for WP articles containing "African-American" shows a long list of article names that consistently use a hyphen for the adjective. So, I agree with you that there are good reasons for a change, but I also see that it would mean a lot of work and should be discussed at another place (maybe at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style). --Rsk6400 (talk) 05:53, 24 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose, when being used as an adjective, the hyphen should be present. For the article subject "African Americans", only "African" is an adjective, being used to describe the noun, Americans. But in "African-American culture, "African-American" is the adjective: we are describing the culture of African Americans, not "American culture" that is African. This same rule would apply regardless of which group, e.g., European Americans, European-American culture, Chinese Americans, Chinese-American culture, Indian Americans, Indian-American culture. There are exceptional cases, namely American Indian should never be hyphenated, nor should Latin American, but those are not comparable examples, despite being of superficially similar construction. Firejuggler86 (talk) 15:34, 24 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment, it should also be kept in mind that what AP associates produce, and what we produce, have nothing to do one with the other. We are a free, online encyclopaedia that is entirely written and maintained by volunteers that everyone is free to edit; they are professional newspapers and news broadcasters, whose product is not free, and most of which are for profit. Don't be beguiled into believing that they do things like this in a genuine effort to right great wrongs (which, it won't, either way): they do it because it makes them appear to be doing so, thereby improving their image and boosting their sales. Wikipedia, OTOH, is not bound by any such interests. Firejuggler86 (talk) 16:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose per WP:HYPHEN. —  AjaxSmack  03:08, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:HYPHEN. Rjensen (talk) 03:37, 26 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Post-close comment: For anyone looking to pick this up in the future, I'd suggest going the broader route and seeking a MOS change. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 22:00, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: SSC199 TY4
— Assignment last updated by Arianna Szn (talk) 14:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Black American Music 209
— Assignment last updated by Xarias.1 (talk) 02:02, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

United States has an RFC
United States has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you.

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2023
Add information about white exploitation and white cultural appropriation of African American culture in the article

Source: https://cupola.gettysburg.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1943&context=student_scholarship

https://fisherpub.sjf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=journal3690 170.80.111.10 (talk) 00:31, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  14:09, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 19 September 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: consensus to not move (non-admin closure) Reading Beans (talk) 02:19, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

– there should be no hyphen between African and American anywhere, the hyphenated version is not correct according to WP MOS&#32;Iljhgtn (talk) 10:50, 19 September 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). SilverLocust 💬 18:06, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * African-American culture → African American culture
 * African-American English → African American English
 * African-American Vernacular English → African American Vernacular English
 * African-American Muslims → African American Muslims


 * The referenced portion of MOS is was MOS:HYPHEN's "Avoid using hyphens to connect racial or ethnic descriptors, regardless of whether or not they are used attributively (Aboriginal Australians, Asian American studies, Black British people)." [Edit: A talk page section was opened earlier today about whether this portion of the Manual of Style is correct. See WT:MOS.] SilverLocust  💬 18:06, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I'm not sure I agree with the MoS on this point. I'm also a little concerned about the possible vagueness of a title like African American English. I think African American English dialect would be better for WP:PRECISION. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:41, 19 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Note the original move was requested at WP:RM/TR by Polyamorph (talk) 18:58, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. Based on ngrams, the unhyphenated form "African American" appears to be more commonly used than the hyphenated form "African-American".
 * I also think Rreagan007's opinion on whether African American English is too vague should be addressed somehow, though I'm neutral on their proposal. estar8806 (talk) ★ 19:53, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose. Wikipedia hypehnates compound modifiers. See MOS:HYPHEN. Recently someone tried to add an exception for terms like this, without any consensus behind it, but it has been reverted. There's an open discussion about the idea at WT:MOSCAPS but so far no one has provided a rationale that boils down to improving the encyclopedia in any way (the only support for the idea has been that someone likes it because it's found in two off-site style guides they happen to like, but WP is not written to off-site documentation; we have our own.)  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:21, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. My initial reaction was that the MoS was wonky for saying this should not be hyphenated. It makes sense now that SMcCandlish has pointed out that that bit was added to the MoS without consensus. Rreagan007 (talk) 00:04, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose – Note that the first atttempt to put that into the MOS was reverted for lack of a clear consensus. When it was put back in 2022, there was no discussion save this addition to an archived discussion.  If you want to do these moves, do a proper RFC on that provision that was snuck into the MOS first.  For now, it has been removed. Dicklyon (talk) 00:15, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment, it does not matter to me. i thought i was just following MOS, and it made sense. nvm lol Iljhgtn (talk) 11:02, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Black American Music
— Assignment last updated by MylesM3 (talk) 20:44, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Removal of American English from 1st Para
“in American English” is the most redundant. The topic is about African Americans, so to put American English in because Black Americans literally named their culture Black Culture makes the entire structure sound odd and unnecessary.

If Brazilian Tom calls himself Tom and what he does Brazilian Tom culture historically, do we say it’s Brazilian Tom culture in Brazilian Portuguese but other ppl who are not Brazilian Rom culture call it eight other things. No. It doesn’t matter what everyone else calls it. What matters is what it is based of him because it’s his. If not, every article on Wikipedia will have to be edited because a chair in Spanish is Silla so insert in Spain Spanish.

I think American English should be removed from the para below because the whole topic is about African American culture also called Black culture and it should be respected as such just like anyone else’s.

African-American culture, also known as Black American culture or Black culture in American English, refers to the cultural expressions of African Americans, either as part of or distinct from mainstream American culture. African-American culture has been influential on American and global worldwide culture as a whole. WayMaQueen (talk) 05:35, 28 February 2024 (UTC)