Talk:Afro Samurai/Archive 1

Character section
Needs a character section, with some info on Afro, Ninja Ninja, Justice, The Numbered Monks of that mystery buddhist sect. --Bushido Brown 07:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Episode Summaries
I'm going to reformat and minimize the episode summary section to be more consistent with other shows. Right now it goes a little too far into detail for a summary. Leebo86 14:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, Thesis4Eva, if you would like to do detailed summaries for the characters, or at least start them, that would be great. That's usually where the more in-depth info goes. Just be sure to move the end spoilers tag below the characters section if you put spoilers in the character descriptions. Leebo86 15:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Sources.
This article does not expand on sources or cite much of any of them. Also, I thought Fan Links were not official or reputable sources? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.112.213.22 (talk) 01:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC).


 * I don't see any fan sites listed as sources. There are some under External Links (which they probably shouldn't be, I'll review the policy), but the sources are listed under References, and all 6 sources are cited in the article. The lead contains most of them. Please clarify what you mean, and sign your edit with 4 tildes. Leebo 86 01:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Here is a link to a recent interview with the creator (Oct 26, 2007); answers a lot of questions: http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/recent/feature.asp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.21.129.12 (talk) 18:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Franchise
The real question for this page is what incarnation of Afro Samurai it is supposed to be dealing with. The TV show? The rumored movie? The original manga? (which is called a series in the article, but was it ever even a full series?) AS is unique in the way it crossed mediums before it was ever established in one. Technically the article should be split up but there's so little info on each thing. Any ideas? Laxcat 03:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It's generally accepted to keep related media (television, manga, movies) together on a main page, and if the individual media deserve their own articles, it can be taken from there. Leebo 86 03:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh... my apologies on reverting the removal of your own text. I saw an anonymous IP remove it, and just reverted until a reason was given. Leebo 86 03:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Race
The question for me is why was it necessary for an African to be transplanted into Japanese culture, or, conversely, why was it needful that medieval Japanese culture be used as the backdrop for the exploits of an African character? Surely it would be possible to portray the correct races in their own proper cultures in an interesting way. Why is it considered "more special" to watch an African male out-do Japanese males in fighting methods which are native to Japanese culture? Are there political reasons for why this is considered to be a "good" thing? '''undefined 03:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC) —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned comment added by 67.50.134.60 (talk) 17:49, January 11, 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you're looking a bit deeper into it than necessary. I think the main motivation is the "cool factor" of having a hip-hop backdrop. The manga was written by a Japanese artist, so I don't think it's a political device for touting Africans' superiority over Japanese. Samurai Champloo is another example of a "hip hop anime". It combined hip hop and ancient Japan, in the same way that the creators had previously combined jazz and space travel for Cowboy Bebop. Hip hop is big in the United States, and Afro Samurai was clearly made with the intention of it being a hit here. Add Samuel L. Jackson's involvment and it seems to be mostly a marketing technique. Leebo 86 17:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes its definitely the "cool factor" --Oblivious —Preceding undated comment added 18:44, January 11, 2007 (UTC).
 * Nah it was just because we wanted an animefied depiction of a black guy boning some japanese chick. It just wouldn't have been possible otherwise. But seriously, it's probably the cool factor. As stated, with cell phones, revolvers, mechanical physical augmentation, and RPGs, the show never really established a specific setting. (In fact the notion that it takes place in a Japanese culture, although seemingly apparent, is speculative and never outright stated - instead we are drawing conjecture based upon the architecture, language, fighting styles, etc.) Afro's race is never even mentioned in the anime, I don't think, so I doubt it's racially charged. If this manga was not created by the Japanese, I might consider that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.253.36.46 (talk • contribs) 04:38, January 7, 2008 (UTC)

Ok, this is why you are all wrong and possibly racist. First of all its not set in any time period because theres cell phones and characters with rocket powered grenades. Second of all, hip-hop music hand nothing to do with the show at all, it wasn't like champloo or bebop were the music set the tone for the fight sequences, it was about a kid being different from everyone and they still excepted him. Third of all, your racist, because all your article reads to me is "I don't want my samurai to be a black guy" and "It's not about they're race, it's about there silly music". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.226.95.9 (talk) 17:50, May 31, 2007 (UTC)
 * Why is it racist to question why the role of a samurai was not played by a Japanese person, or to point out the connection between hip-hop music and African Americans? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.193.238.1 (talk) 06:10, June 9, 2007 (UTC)
 * Because of this: . Same guy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.227.43.42 (talk) 20:11, August 7, 2007 (UTC)
 * You are entitled to your own opinion. But this is not a forum, you should keep those opinions to yourself. The discussion page exists to talk about ways to make a page better. If your comment has nothing to do with that then it has no reason to be on the page. Thefro552 00:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's not racist to question the role of the Samurai or point out the connection between hip-hop and the African American community - but this person has a history of posting racist and nationalistic complaints in the past. Additionally, it's pretty easy to infer from the way he types, advocating things like "keeping the correct races in their own proper cultures" - i.e "Go back to Africa n***er". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.253.36.46 (talk • contribs) 04:38, January 7, 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you should ask the creator of the show why he chose a black guy. Its not about race but the creator of Afro made a story and the main character is a black guy. If you are going to ask this question about a "African" being the main character then ask about all of the countless Anime and Manga with "European" characters and the fact that many "Japanese" characters don't look Japanese at all. I tell ya anytime someone black is in anythng race has to be brought up always!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.21.129.12 (talk) 18:27, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

To the dude that said a black dude having sex with a japanese person wouldnt be possible needs to shut up. I'm blasian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.233.92.199 (talk • contribs) 02:35, February 3, 2008 (UTC)

Characters section
The characters section should probably be expanded, but I see that someone moved Ninja Ninja up to Afro (so as to cover both characters voiced by Samuel L. Jackson on a single line). This would work fine if it was a "Cast" section, with characters listed after the voice actors, but the section is eventually going to be a focus on the characters themselves. What does everyone else think? Leebo 86 07:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That is until its revealed that Ninja Ninja is simply a split personality of Afro-samurai resulting from his traumatic childhood. :D Just a theory of course, but then they would need to be on a single line eh? Livingston 09:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I edited the section on Sasuke earlier to correct a statement that his glasses were "homemade", to indicate that they are period glasses from feudal Japan / late dynastic China (many period HK movies feature them). I just thought a source might be appropriate. Found some pics of an actual 18th century pair of Chinese glasses in a similar design: http://www.eyeantiques.com/Spectacles/Chinese_old_style.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.1.144 (talk) 18:18, March 31, 2007 (UTC)

Anyone brave enough to prune up Ninja Ninja's section? It is a veritable wall of text.--RSBlaylock 21:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Character changes
Anyone remember the afro samurai site a while ago featuring a guy with a teddy bear mask over his head? He was wearing one of the headbands but I forget which. I think his name started with a k but I forget. He's no where to be found on the site anymore so I can only imagine it's a plot change. I think it should be added but I have no info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.137.140.109 (talk) 03:08, January 21, 2007 (UTC)

That would be Kuma (a.k.a. Jinno). The information is in his section.--RSBlaylock 21:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Tense
This show has already aired, this article needs to stop being in future tense, and perhaps some of the speculative information could be changed to better represent the show now that it's contents are avaliable to the public as well. Cheesechimp 09:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I went through and removed all of the future tense that I saw. I know I probably missed some though. Thefro552 14:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Manga?
Manga is a book right? A japanese comic book, basically, right?

Is Afro Samurai a manga and anime, or just an anime?? I can't find a copy of an Afro Samurai manga anywhere.--71.158.209.186 05:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The manga, different from the original doujinshi, will be released in English September 2, 2008 by Seven Seas Entertainment. It has yet to be released in Japanese. Grapeofdeath (talk) 09:31, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Afro Samurai was originally a manga as stated in the article.
Shouldn't we present more information on the manga as well like other anime articles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.230.190.100 (talk) 20:03, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Japanese Name
The name printed on the manga cover pictured is アフロザムライ (AFUROZAMURAI for those who don't read kana), indicating that the ロ triggers +voice (i.e. the dakuten) on what is normally the サ in サムライ. No problem with keeping the English name as "Afro Samurai", but the Japanese name ought to reflect the ザ, unless we have evidence to the contrary. Tsunomaru 03:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Japanese voices?
Um...who provides the Japanese-language voice acting for the show? Or is it just shown subtitled on Fuji TV? Twin Bird 02:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

New Season 2008
I just saw this on IGN: http://tv.ign.com/articles/830/830285p1.html They are making a new season of Afro Samurai in 2008. The article should be cleaned up to show this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 1silver11 (talk • contribs) 18:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Reception
Can we get a section on its ratings and acclaims? 66.25.233.222 (talk) 05:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Small change?
"In August 2005, Japan-based game developers Namco announced they would be releasing Afro Samurai related video games.[5]

The cost of each episode is estimated at one million dollars[6], which is a record for GONZO.

There are plans to produce a live-action Afro Samurai movie, also starring Samuel L. Jackson as the title character[7], although production has not yet begun.

A video game adaptation of the series has been announced and will be released on the Xbox 360, Playstation 3"

Why does the article mention the game, then have two more seperated lines talking about how much money Gonzo has made followed up by the future movie and then another space line to talk about the game again? Shouldn't they be mushed together or at least put next to each other? They are talking about the same game after all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcnichoj (talk • contribs) 04:32, May 7, 2008 (UTC)

Ninja Ninja
The Ninja Ninja section is filled with speculation on his being an imaginery character. This whole section probably needs to be rewritten to remove this. Thefro552 14:39, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Actaully its not speculation if you've seen the series all the way through. Which is why i added the spoiler warning. Luciferian56 02:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The spoiler tag has been removed for no particular reason. Could someone please add it back before the paragraph does more damage? Thank you. 88.68.233.241 (talk) 15:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The spoiler tag was removed for a very good reason, and probably quite a while back. I can't see how anything in that section is doing any "damage" - if you don't want spoilers, then don't read articles in encyclopedias, read reviews or something. If you don't like it, then you should read Wikipedia's content disclaimer. --Eruhildo (talk) 17:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * That's really stupid, people read articles and reviews so they can decide if something is worth watching. No point in reading a review or article if you've already seen the show. Spoiler tags need to be added, this ruined the whole show for me.72.235.131.7 (talk) 05:09, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree, I read into 1 article of another thing to see the release date of a game, and the story was all over the article that ruined it for me Coolman1250 (talk) 20:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The article should be structured so that the general information is presented at the beginning of the article, followed by a section with the plot synopsis and other spoiler material with a spoiler warning at the beginning of the section. Thetruereddragon4 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:42, 4 May 2009 (UTC).

Official UK Website
The link for the Official UK Website (www.afrosamurai.co.uk) leads to a telivo page. If you can confirm this, perhaps it should simply be removed. Prem-aka-Prince 04:14, 19 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prem-aka-Prince (talk • contribs)

Blaxploitation
Do you reckon that this series fits under the definition of blaxploitation?? --QatBurglar (talk) 18:52, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you have a reliable source to back up that claim? --Farix (Talk) 00:31, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It certainly gives a nod to that genre, in addition to crossing into the genres of samurai flicks, kung fu cinema, and Westerns.Zatoichi26 (talk) 02:50, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Charcters...
I think the character list is missing a few important entries. Namely, I find it strange that Ninja Ninja and Jinno hardly have a passing mention in the whole article, and yet minor characters like Sasuke have a whole entry to themselves. I think the character list needs to be reorganized based on the character's importance in the storyline, instead of the random way they are presented currently. Thetruereddragon4 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC).


 * I thought exactly the same when I read this article a few days ago, but didn't feel like working on it by myself. If you want, though, we can work on this together. What do you say? --Waldir talk 16:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * they was there, but idiots thought it would've been better if it they're bios was only in the ressurection section Coolman1250 (talk) 04:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Mystery of Jamie Simone (Director)
Director is only Fuminori Kizaki in a Japanese version. The person named Jamie Simone only exists as Recording (録音) in a Japanese version. Did Jamie Simone really do Director? It is necessary to reflect this fact in Wikipedia.

http://movie.goo.ne.jp/movies/PMVWKPD41779/index.html

http://www.afrosamurai.jp/eiga/stuff.html

http://www.gonzo.co.jp/archives/afro-samurai/staffcast.html (60.39.34.199 (talk) 07:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC))

Plot Summary
"Although the TV anime is based on the manga, both have the same plot but the anime diverges from manga storywise, as the story unfolds very differently in the manga, although key points/fights do take place in both stories. There is also a video game based on the TV series that is also presented differently but the plot still remains."

These two sentences at the end of the plot summary have upsettingly poor grammar. Can this be fixed? 134.69.180.59 (talk) 23:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Emmys
It previously stated Resurrection was only nomianted for 1 emmy, which it lost. I changed to two nomiantions, one of which it won, according to imdb anyway. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1265998/ Thsi should probably be cited, but I'm not entirley sure how to add a footnote. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.154.86.239 (talk) 06:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Rearranging
After making several edits and additions and reading the article several times over, I feel it should be organized better. Since this article covers multiple versions and forms of Afro Samurai, the plot, cast, and production sections seem weird where they are currently placed. The article covers the anime/film - conception - manga - then anime/film again which looks (and reads) very strangely. I've taken the liberty of moving some things around to help but feedback and consensus is much appreciated. PLEASE DON'T JUST UNDO! (Deftonesderrick (Deftonesderrick (talk) 00:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC))


 * Your rearranging totally defeated WP:MOS-AM. I would highly suggest you read that. –  J U M P G U R U   ■ ask ㋐㋜㋗ ■ 05:51, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * "Totally defeating" seems like a harsh judgement. Also, I know you have a history of "just undoing" editor's work so I'd like to hear your suggestions for how we could improve this article. Seeing as it was rejected for B-Class status, changing everything back to the way it was is not helping. Such as, I know what MOS:AM suggests for characters list/cast lists but I don't feel it does this particular anime any service by not having the list. This was a major American release, and drew an unconventional choice like Sam Jackson and should be noted. People will look for information about the actors and isn't that what Wikipedia is all about? And please don't just say WP:MOS-AM, I'd really like to hear how we should improve this.(Deftonesderrick (talk) 18:39, 13 November 2009 (UTC))


 * I'm directing you to the whole thing. It shows the order of which sections should be. :) –  J U M P G U R U   ■ ask ㋐㋜㋗ ■ 18:43, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Noted and looking at my edit a couple things needed to be moved. That still doesn't answer my question though. (Deftonesderrick (talk) 18:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC))


 * I'm not trying to make enemies with you. I'm not trying to ruin your hard work. Don't think I just delete things for no reason, I reverted the sections back because they were not in correct order and do not follow Manual of Style. Sorry. I'm not saying that you can't help. I just want you to follow MOS. –  J U M P G U R U   ■ ask ㋐㋜㋗ ■ 19:28, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Again, understood. I acknowledged my mistakes regarding the rearrangement edit. I'm not trying to be enemies as well. What I asked was, what are you're suggestions for improving this article? This way we can work together to improve it so we don't step on each other's toes anymore. (Deftonesderrick (talk) 19:38, 13 November 2009 (UTC))


 * I do agree with you that it doesn't really flow correctly. All we need to do basically is make it flow correctly and make the plot more of a summary rather than a complete overview. :) –  J U M P G U R U   ■ ask ㋐㋜㋗ ■ 20:36, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed, I am going to re-edit the AS: Res. section to sound more like the AS summary since I feel that one fits better and is less detailed. (Deftonesderrick (talk) 20:43, 13 November 2009 (UTC))

Page Image
The image used for the page is a good one but it's described as being used to cover the character and various forms of media as a whole. I think an image that better suits the everything would benefit the article more, instead of the cover of one of the mangas. Here are a few I've found, please let me know what you think!

http://transmitterdown.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/afro-samurai.jpg

http://www.politefiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/afrosamurai.jpg

http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/afrosamurai.jpg

http://muuuvies.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/afrosamuraiimageok2.jpg

I know I'm coming into the page late in the game but I just watched these again and saw how close the page was from B-Class and I think with some changes it can get it! (Deftonesderrick (talk) 00:59, 13 November 2009 (UTC))


 * The image on the article should be as is. WP:MOS-AM tells us to give an image of something that started the franchise, mainly the manga. –  J U M P G U R U   ■ ask ㋐㋜㋗ ■ 05:51, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Noted. (Deftonesderrick (talk)) —Preceding undated comment added 18:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC).

Actually, MOS:AM states:

Image-	A relevant image for the work, which should be a movie poster, a DVD/VHS cover, screenshot, or another related image. Be sure to include a valid fair use rationale for the image if you upload one. Optimal image size is 230px.

Nothing in that description confirms that it needs to be something that started the franchise. So I still move to have the image changed. (Deftonesderrick (talk) 19:25, 13 November 2009 (UTC))


 * Agreed. I actually think it should be the original DVD cover, because actually the DVD was released before the manga. The picture used on the article is the manga remake which was created after the anime was released. So if we could get an image of the original Spike TV edit Funimation release that would be cool. It is restricted to use magazine covers in the infobox so we can not use the Nou Nou Hau cover that first featured Afro. –  J U M P G U R U   ■ ask ㋐㋜㋗ ■ 20:44, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Truthfully, I can't upload images from here. However, I've found a couple good images if you'd be so kind as to maybe check them out and upload the best one possibly?


 * http://www.basugasubakuhatsu.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/afro-samurai-cover.jpg


 * http://ummagumma.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/dvd-afro-samurai-00.jpg


 * http://clientwork.oneblaze.com/KiahWeb/uvc_2008/imgs/lifestyle/2008_1ST_q/afro_dvd.jpg


 * http://www.soul-reflections.net/mis/DVD/Afro%20Samurai.jpg


 * Thanks! (Deftonesderrick (talk) 21:21, 13 November 2009 (UTC))


 * Thanks. I've checked them. Right now I'm debating with my wiki-friend AnmaFinotera whether the original Nou Nou Hau issue, the DVD cover, or the manga cover should be used. :) –  J U M P G U R U   ■ ask ㋐㋜㋗ ■ 23:56, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * (EC) Per project consensus, the image should be from the primary work, not just randomly selected because others like it. The primary work here is the manga series, so the current image of the first volume is the best one for the infobox. The only one that might be better is the original Japanese cover, but that's up to the editors of the page to decide which they prefer (as the project has decided that either is fine, with no consensus on a preference between the two). -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 23:58, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Well you see the problem with that is that it was first released in the United States. Also, the manga that is pictured is a remake of the original amateur manga and was created after the release of the anime series. So what I'm trying to say is that maybe instead of that it should be the DVD cover because that's the first official release of the series. The original amateur manga was not released in volume format...it just kinda floats around. :P So we can't use that. –  J U M P G U R U   ■ ask ㋐㋜㋗ ■ 00:27, 14 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with Jump about this one. What AnmaFinotera is saying is that the manga series is the primary work but I think (at least for the English wikipedia) that the primary series for the picture would be the anime, since that was the first release and holds more informational and cultural weight from what I know. So either the picture needs to be the DVD cover or possibly the title card from the anime. This of course is all imho. (Deftonesderrick (talk) 01:03, 14 November 2009 (UTC))


 * I wouldn't say the title card for the anime, but maybe the DVD cover. It's just the manga really is not the first of anything. –  J U M P G U R U   ■ ask ㋐㋜㋗ ■ 02:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)