Talk:Aftermath of the Libyan civil war (2011)

Here some information to help get you started
I fully support the idea and here are some samples of reliable sources that could only really work under the title 2011 Libyan Revolution:

Women’s role in the revolution and how relationships between men and women within Libya society have changed

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/10/26/libya_sexual_revolution?page=0,1

blogs.channel4.com/world-news-blog/where-were-the-women-in-libyas-revolution/18208

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/libyan-women-savor-new-freedoms-after-revolution/2011/11/03/gIQAhgB9lM_story.html?tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/04/libya-women-idUSL6E7M41OY20111104

Articles on attempts of reconciliation

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/world/africa/libyas-new-leaders-to-investigate-qaddafi-and-crimes-of-the-past.html?_r=2&pagewanted=2

http://feb17.info/news/video-hundreds-of-libyan-prisoners-freed/

http://feb17.info/media/video-ntc-begins-reconciliation-with-tuareg/#more-37921

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/09/libya-tuareg-idUSL6E7M83L220111109

Libya’s autonomous militias and attempts to create an army

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/1104/Libya-militias-taking-law-into-own-hands/%28page%29/3

http://www.stltoday.com/news/world/article_851aed5b-c1a5-5475-994a-7ce3e09297de.html

http://feb17.info/media/video-collecting-libyas-arms-tough-task-for-ntc/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/libya-struggles-to-create-army-out-of-militias/2011/10/28/gIQAwWsjaM_story_1.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/world/africa/in-libya-the-fighting-may-outlast-the-revolution.html?pagewanted=all

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL6E7M708G20111107?sp=true

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL6E7M95GY20111109?sp=true

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204621904577017732234272296.html?KEYWORDS=libya+secular+leader

Unguarded weapons and danger to the population

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jCegOI5kZOpn6g-oWeikch6zdkAg?docId=CNG.dba16b6f31b0699f781ef352ab4c228e.201&index=0

http://feb17.info/news/libya-explosive-devices-continue-to-kill-and-maim-civilians/

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/11/01/UN-urges-land-mine-cleanup-in-Libya/UPI-14931320186440/#ixzz1caByGt1o

Libya’s revolutionary government’s foreign relations

http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xhtml1/en_GB/features/awi/features/2011/11/04/feature-01

http://www.independent.com.mt/news.asp?newsitemid=134449

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/africa/UN-Chief-in-Libya-on-1st-Visit-Since-Uprising-133067978.html

http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/italy-wishes-new-libyan-pm-well-1.1169232

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/10/30/50-libya-war-amputees-to-arrive-in-uk-115875-23524269/#ixzz1cEDKTRdi

http://feb17.info/news/libyan-diplomat-unloads-on-qatar/#more-37717

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/niger-military-libya-convoy_n_1083608.html

Libyans trying to seize back old property.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/04/libya-gaddafi-property-restitution-demands

Desecration of Gadhafi family tombs and destruction of Gaddafi’s property

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/244481/20111107/tombs-muammar-gaddafi-s-family-desecrated-sirte.htm

Revival of the arts and culture in Libya

http://www.indiegogo.com/17th-February-Music-Festival

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/09/01/uk-libya-museum-idUKLNE78002M20110901

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/world/africa/09berbers.html?ref=africa

Revival of free media and civil society in Libya

www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/india/171744-media-delegation-visits-libya.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_in_the_media_during_the_2011_Libyan_civil_war

Accurate chart on Nato’s mission during the Libya Revolution

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/may/22/nato-libya-data-journalism-operations-country#_

http://www.asianage.com/international/secret-teams-guarded-gaddafi-mustard-gas-during-libya-war-619

Libya’s looted treasures and efforts to protect other articles during the revolution

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/5880475/Hunt-on-for-treasures-looted-in-Libyan-uprising

http://feb17.info/news/libyas-historic-treasures-survive-the-revolution/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204528204577008601153277034.html

Plans to revolutionise Libya’s economy

http://feb17.info/news/libya-bracing-for-next-invasion-foreign-firms/#more-37404

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-02/libya-plans-law-to-pave-way-for-islamic-bond-sales-arab-credit.html

http://allafrica.com/stories/201111070788.html

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/11/10/idUKL5E7MA06D20111110

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204358004577029531381366726.html?KEYWORDS=libya

Education during the Revolution

http://feb17.info/news/video-education-program-for-children-of-martyrs/

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,2098098,00.htmlduring

Right to protest during Libya’s Revolution

http://feb17.info/news/relatives-of-jailed-gadhafi-loyalists-protest-allege-mistreatment-by-former-rebels/#more-37622

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203733504577025982528389306.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJAzMdNY7cw&feature=player_embedded

Attempts to cause insurgency

http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/Libya-Pro-Gaddafi-group-targets-hundreds-for-assassination_312609948387.html

http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=1&id=27234

As I said they are only samples many more articles were written on each of these subject during the course of the armed revolution which would mean you would have to look back on article dating from February to August it’s going to be a lot of work but I’m sure many of the editors working on 2011 Libyan civil war will help you. it would also probably be a good idea to include the NTC road map to democray as well. Good luck!

CounterPunch reliability
Why is CounterPunch not considered WP:RELIABLE?--Anders Feder (talk) 06:38, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I looked it up on the Reliable sources notice board. There is apparently little Editorial oversight and they report fringe theories and things like that.  The consensus was that any reliable news from counterpunch could be found elsewhere, and the rest of it was completely unreliable, thus the whole site is apparently unreliable. Jeancey (talk) 06:41, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks.--Anders Feder (talk) 07:03, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep! Whenever I don't recognize a source, or when the information seems a bit ridiculous I always run a search through the RSN archives to see if it's been discussed.  The main ones to watch out for on the Libya articles are Mathaba, Press.tv, Pravda and Alex Jones. :) Jeancey (talk) 15:24, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It did raise a red flag with me, but from the CounterPunch article there's no obvious hints that it would not be a credible source, particularly since reasonably respectable people like Noam Chomsky and Robert Fisk has praised and/or contributed to it in the past. I suspect there is a slight bit of bias towards non-mainstream sources in the RSN statements on this, but in any case more than one source is preferable.--Anders Feder (talk) 13:55, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I note that the CP article 1) made the prediction that Saif would not surrender to ICC, which he didn't and that 2) Aisha would publicly make some kind of loyalist statement, which she did.--Anders Feder (talk) 20:58, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the information from CounterPunch for the time being.--Anders Feder (talk) 21:31, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I've opened a ticket for this on RSN.--Anders Feder (talk) 22:08, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

2011 Libyan civil war to Libyan civil war

 * Please see the Libyan civil war talk page, per the renaming. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 13:20, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Position of black skinned Libyans?
One major benchmark for progress towards reconciliation would be the rights of black Libyans. In the southern half of the country they usually outnumber other Libyans. They have been there for thousands of years. At this moment, most of them remain in camps, often being denied citizenship, fearing for their lives, even in mid-Tripoly. Reading some of the blogs by Libyans, it is clear that many coastal Libyans feel that there is very little future for black Libyans as equals, if at all, in the new Libya.

The city of Tawarga still stands empty, ethnically cleansed of its 30.000 largely black Libyan inhabitants, supposedly because its inhabitants supported Gaddafi. But towns who supported him much stronger, even his home town, still stand largely inhabited. Tawarga remains sealed off against returnees, because (explained one blogger to me) some militia leaders apparently see it as an insult to coastal Libyans that so close to the coast, black people had a majority in a town and held a position as equal citizens under Gaddafi-rule. The UN project of getting them back home is a cold case, not even mentioned in recent reporting, while militia-roadblocks outside Tripoly still sometimes refuse black Libyan people traveling north.

Should we spend a few lines an them and on Tawarga-returnees in the section Ethnic and Tribal reconciliation?Pieter Felix Smit (talk) 10:21, 19 March 2012 (UTC)


 * While the position of the blacks in Libya is indeed lamentable, the way you write looks like you have misconceptions about their position in Libya. "Libyan blacks" or "Black Libyans" are misleading labels: in fact, there are two distinct societal groupings of blacks in Libya.


 * First there are the Toubou, who are native (and localized) to southeastern regions. The Toubou sided with the rebels, but now it looks like there is a separatist movement growing among them. Then there are migrant workers (from Chad, Nigeria, etc...) who often never had citizenship in the first place and thus could hardly be called "Libyans" ("equal citizens" is pretty dubious when they weren't citizens in the first place...). These migrant workers are thought to have sided with Gaddafi, and this allegiance was strengthened by the hostility of the rebels toward them. And then there are African mercenaries that Gaddafi shipped in to fight the rebels during the civil war.


 * Pretty much all of the third group are gone now, and the second group have largely been forced to flee their homes during the war, either to neighboring countries or back home. It is true that Libya would do well to become more racially tolerant, but it is also incorrect to simplify the issue to the point of confusing who is who. The blacks that were chased out of their homes were not ancient inhabitants of Libya, they were migrant workers (and it should be viewed in that light- hostility to foreign workers of questionable loyalties), and we would do well not to obscure this fact and paint "black Libyans" in a similar light to African Americans. --Yalens (talk) 13:43, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Rising of Islamism
I think that information from this article should be incorporate in this or article about post-Gaddafi Libya?--Vojvodae please be free to write :) 18:47, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well we already have a section here. --Yalens (talk) 02:14, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Links
>> Egyptian Christians found dead on Libya beach(Lihaas (talk) 19:12, 10 November 2013 (UTC)).

EU leaked document
"EU 'civilian' mission training paramilitaries in Libya EUobserver, 18 November 2013 – The EU's "civilian" border mission in Libya is in fact training paramilitary forces, amid a wider European and US effort to stop Libya becoming a "failed state.' According to an internal EU paper - a blueprint for the border mission, Eubam Libya, dated 18 April and seen by EUobserver - its "main effort" is to build up the "operational level" of Libya's "Border Guards (BG)" and "Naval Coast Guard (NCG).""

86.168.142.77 (talk) 08:44, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Links
>> Libya tells oil tankers to avoid seized ports>> Egyptian embassy staff kidnapped in Libya>> Egypt diplomats leave Libya after abductions>> Libya says all chemical weapons destroyed>> Libya denies coup bid after general's comment>> Libya: State of Insecurity>> Low-key vote for Libya's constitution panel>> Libya allows use of force against oil tanker>> Libya says navy seizes oil tanker from rebels>> Mass strike paralyses Libya's Benghazi(Lihaas (talk) 16:10, 26 November 2013 (UTC)).

Why no mention of post-war Gaddafi loyalists (aka. "Green resistance" forces)?
Islamists are mentioned yet there is nothing in this article about post-war violence linked to Gaddafi loyalists (perhaps organized by his son in Niger). The Gaddafi loyalism after the Libyan Civil War article has plenty of reliable sources now to confirm that this is a thing. Last week the central government sent planes to the south to bomb the groups. Only a link in the "see also" section exists to hint at this. Does anyone object to adding a brief section about this to the article? Esn (talk) 08:46, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Be WP:BOLD add it(Lihaas (talk) 13:54, 25 January 2014 (UTC)).

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-19
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111125183824/http://www.icc-cpi.int:80/NR/exeres/48F6B130-EC14-4A51-BC79-1CCF8633E270.htm to http://www.icc-cpi.int/NR/exeres/48F6B130-EC14-4A51-BC79-1CCF8633E270.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120109163145/http://www.businessweek.com:80/news/2011-12-17/libya-s-top-general-says-son-abducted-by-militia-in-capital.html to http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-17/libya-s-top-general-says-son-abducted-by-militia-in-capital.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120130011402/http://www.msf.org:80/msf/articles/2012/01/libya-detainees-tortured-and-denied-medical-care.cfm to http://www.msf.org/msf/articles/2012/01/libya-detainees-tortured-and-denied-medical-care.cfm
 * Added tag to http://articles.cnn.com/2011-10-13/africa/world_africa_libya-rival-commanders_1_qatar-libyan-capital-commanders
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111110032159/http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Libyan+exile+unveils+party+plan+liberal+Islamic+state/5683190/story.html to http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Libyan+exile+unveils+party+plan+liberal+Islamic+state/5683190/story.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120309213244/http://www.tunisia-live.net/2011/12/04/abdelhakim-belhaj-apologizes-for-disorder-caused-at-ras-ajdir-border-crossing-with-tunisia/ to http://www.tunisia-live.net/2011/12/04/abdelhakim-belhaj-apologizes-for-disorder-caused-at-ras-ajdir-border-crossing-with-tunisia/
 * Added tag to http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-21/world/world_europe_arab-spring-europe_1_arab-world-arab-spring-arab-protests/3
 * Added tag to http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/libya-revoke-draconian-new-law
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140502020344/http://www.tripolipost.com/articledetail.asp?c=1&i=7577 to http://tripolipost.com/articledetail.asp?c=1&i=7577
 * Added tag to http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-09/u-k-says-it-will-release-libya-funds-when-banks-are-accountable.html

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Discussion
There is a discussion talking place here that affects this page. Charles Essie (talk) 22:27, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 17 August 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved by User:Orange Suede Sofa. – Material  Works  22:54, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Aftermath of the First Libyan Civil War → Aftermath of the Libyan civil war (2011) – The title was changed on that other page. 2A01:CB1D:636:9B00:290B:FD8A:D638:8FEB (talk) 14:30, 17 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Support Parham wiki (talk) 10:01, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Procedural move. As an aside, I hope that everyone is finally happy with this name; there are four(!) previous redirects from prior name changes and I'll take care of them as well. Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 17:18, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.