Talk:Age groups in Scouting and Guiding

Missing Organisations
I apologise in advance to all those people who will notice that I only got the BSA, TSA and GGUK in the table so far - I only had time to retrieve information on these organisations... I will welcome anyone coming along and adding their organisation and sections to the table Horus Kol 14:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Table alignments
I've been doing my nut trying to get the table cell contents to be vertically aligned and make it look tidier... anyone able to help? Horus Kol 10:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * found it - Help:Table - table model is a bit difficult in wikipedia if you've come from a HTML background... Horus Kol 11:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * So i've noticed Jediwannabe 11:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Austria
Could somebody - who knows enough to do it correctly - move both "Caravelles" and "Explorers" from "Senior Section(s)" to "Core Section"? The PPÖ has - like some other organizations - a split core section. --jergen 20:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * done - it also made sense for the GSUSA "STUDIO 2B" age range... Horus Kol 15:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

necessary?
As this information is repeated in the individual articles, what is the purpose of replicating it here? Chris 20:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

New Zealand
I'll put it here because i do not know how to use tables in Wikipedia. Kea scouts is 5-7 year olds, Cub scouts is 7 - 10, Scouts is 10 - 14, Venterers is 14 - 18 and rovers is from 18 to 25 203.98.31.34 23:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you check the ages on Scouting New Zealand ?--Egel Reaction? 06:34, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

The ages are also correct. Scouts NZ does not say when a child reaches a certain age they must go up, they are recommendations. If a Scout, Cub or kea is doing exceptionally well they may go to the next group from the ages stated above. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Fair use rationale for Image:Canada Guides no label.svg
Image:Canada Guides no label.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 14:59, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Sections around the world
This section is supposed to contain "generic information" on various programs, but Beaver Scouts is a specific program of The Scout Association. --— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  15:10, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Beaver Scouts linked to Beavers (Scouting) --Egel Reaction? 10:24, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:United Kingdom Girlguiding no label.svg
Image:United Kingdom Girlguiding no label.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed --— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  20:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Guides Australia.svg
Image:Guides Australia.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed --— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  20:56, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:South Africa Guides no label.svg
Image:South Africa Guides no label.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Fixed. --— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  21:24, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Germany PSG.svg
Image:Pfadfinderinnenschaft Sankt Georg.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed --— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  11:37, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Name of article
Per Wikipedia policy, the article's name should be: "Age groups in Scouting and Guiding", with a small "g". --Jagz (talk) 14:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. That is a common sense, non-contentious rename.  Double redirects fixed.  --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  14:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Austria PPO.svg
The image Image:Austria PPO.svg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:


 * Image:Scouts Canada.svg
 * Image:União dos Escoteiros do Brasil.svg
 * Image:Boy Scouts of Bahrain membership badge.svg

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --10:26, 12 May 2008 (UTC) --— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  11:06, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Table- split by country
The single table is long enough that editing and adding entries is tedious, as is relating sections to the header. I propose that this be split into separate tables with sections by country. This will also move the country column to the section header, giving a bit more width. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  16:06, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm making a test in User:Egel/zandbak --Egel Reaction? 15:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I have a header at scoutagetop. --——  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  15:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Here is an example:

Australia

 * - valign="top"
 * Guides Australia
 * colspan=13 |Age grouping is determined by local organisations, as is naming of the sections

Guides are 5 to 18 years 18 to 30 years 6 to 8 years 8 to 10.5 years 10.5 to 15 years 14.5 to 18 years 17 to 26 years
 * colspan=8 |Olave Program
 * - valign="top"
 * Scouts Australia
 * colspan=1 |
 * colspan=3 |Joey Scouts
 * colspan=3 |Cub Scouts
 * colspan=4 |Scouts
 * colspan=3 |Venturer Scouts
 * colspan=6 |Rovers

Austria
7 to 10 years 10 to 13 years 13 to 16 years 16 to 20 years 7 to 10 years 10 to 13 years 13 to 16 years 16 to 20 years
 * - valign="top"
 * rowspan=2 |Pfadfinder und Pfadfinderinnen Österreichs
 * colspan=2 rowspan=2|
 * colspan=4 |Wichtel (Brownies)
 * colspan=3 |Guides
 * colspan=3 |Caravelles
 * colspan=4 |Rangers
 * colspan=4 rowspan=2 |
 * - valign="top"
 * colspan=4 |Wölflinge (Cub Scouts)
 * colspan=3 |Späher
 * colspan=3 |Explorers
 * colspan=4 |Rovers


 * Non-free logos replaced with placeholder images. --——  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  17:12, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

other example

 * A bit more room for the ages, with a fix column width and a smaller font because there are sections of 1 or 2 years but with a long name.

India
--Egel Reaction? 22:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * We don't need the "logo" title, otherwise I like it. This will be much simpler to navigate and edit.    --——  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  09:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I will edit the templates you made to get this. --Egel Reaction? 10:31, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This looks a lot better and is more manageable than the big table we had. Thanks for all your help. I am going to recommend a similar change at List of highest awards in Scouting. --——  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  19:42, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Scouting organisation badges
I really like the split tables - very smart, and much easier to work with. But I think it's missing something now that the organisation badges were dropped - could we not bring them back (reduced form, obviously). -- Horus Kol Talk 10:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the images violate the policy outlined in Non-free content criteria and interpreted in Non-free content. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  11:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The logos are decorative and unneeded. I don't know what you mean by "reduced form"- having misused non-free images is unacceptable whether there is one or a hundred, and no matter the resolution. J Milburn (talk) 11:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Horus has been on an extended break, so he is not aware of the issues that were discussed on your talk page. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  11:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What Horus writes proves that the presence would increase readers' understanding of the topic. One can argue about how significantly it increases the understanding, but it is clear the logos are not decorative and unneeded but used for identification. The criteria for speedy deletion were not met. Stop confusing your POV with policies. --Egel Reaction? 13:26, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Erm, no. I am not going to enter into this debate again, but I do not appreciate you implying my understanding of policy is clouded by my own ulterior motives. I have a good knowledge of policy and how it is used in practice, and non-free image use is something I am very familiar with. There is no way these logos are coming back short of a project-wide consensus that attempting to create a free encyclopedia no longer matters. J Milburn (talk) 19:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So stick to non-free image use and keep away from logo's and badges. --Egel Reaction? 08:41, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * These logos are non-free images, there is no reason that they should be treated any differently from any other non-free images. J Milburn (talk) 23:19, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for repeating the major point in with your POV differs from the policy. Now you have eliminated yourself, we can search for someone who is a expert in this field without you interfering. --Egel Reaction? 07:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, what? You're saying that my POV differs from policy because I believe that these logos are non-free images? They are. What the hell are you talking about? J Milburn (talk) 11:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, what the hell, will you back off me a little? I'm sorry if I'm "interfering" and destroying your hard work, but I'd appreciate it if you treated me like a human being rather than a piece of dirt. J Milburn (talk) 11:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * According to the policy logo's are treated differently from any other (non-free) images. See Non-free_content especially the differences between point 1. en 2. It is clearly that those differences are there on purpose and no one needs Wikilawyering see that.
 * I have nothing against you personal.--Egel Reaction? 12:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's ironic that you accuse me of Wikilawyering when that is exactly what you are doing- you are wrangling around, trying to pretend that these images are somehow different from other non-free images. To quote the section you linked me to- "Some copyrighted images may be used on Wikipedia, providing they meet both the legal criteria for fair use, and Wikipedia's own guidelines for non-free content. Copyrighted images that reasonably can be replaced by free/libre images are not suitable for Wikipedia." Therefore, these images should be treated just like other non-free images- that section just lists some examples of non-free images that can probably be used non-controversially, where appropriate. For instance, I (and the vast majority of Wikipedians) have no opposition to a company logo appearing in the infobox in the article about the company, or an album cover appearing in the infobox in an article about the album. J Milburn (talk) 14:09, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Let us stop discussing here. I will put it as a question on Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content.--Egel Reaction? 15:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Confusing recent edit breaking parts of page
This recent edit, which is rather confusing but appears to have been made in good faith, had broken certain aspects of the page; in particular, an end comment  had been broken by a new line, commenting out a large section (search for " " to find it in the diff). Other issues were also introduced. It appears that the editor, in attempting to format the page, had broken certain lines up at seemingly arbitrary points. This may well have been inadvertent. I have fixed things up as best I can. I will leave it up to editors more familiar with the page, but it may be best to revert to a version before this edit and continue from there. --MegaSloth (talk) 00:45, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You are correct. My mistake. It was a big edit changing the country list into the different regions and I missed a few lines. The corrections look good. Cheers. ~ Ablaze (talk) 13:06, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

France
I have updated the France part. Latest data is from : french scout wiki which includes only the 9 main organizations. Darathor (talk) 11:39, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

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