Talk:Age of Empires III/Archive 3

Act 2 Story Incorrect
The beginning of Act II begins with John and Kanyenke being summoned by John's Uncle to defend his town, as he usually does. If no objections, I will change it. Treleth 01:49, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No objections &mdash; Go ahead, the original was written hastily anyhow Kareeser|Talk! 06:19, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Also agreed ... hastily, or badly? :P Ck l o stsw o rd|queta! 14:02, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Seeing as it was written in one edit... I'll say "both" :P Kareeser|Talk! 03:48, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Go ahead, I just checked the game, and what heppens is John and Kanyenke hunt a deer and then begin walking with their soldiers. Kanyenke complains that "your uncle sees a shadow in the forest and calls for help" and he reasons that the cherokee live far from Uncle Stuart's lands, but John says he trusts his uncle if he says the colony is in danger. As long as he pays them (he used an expression, I think it was line our pockets). So go ahead and change it. Bluepaladin 12:51, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Demo Version
I noticed that there is no link anywhere in the article which links to where people can download the Trial Version. Any reason?
 * Interesting. At any rate, you can download it here at the official site. Kareeser|Talk! 15:40, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Changing names
How do I change the names of a civilization, exampl: Dutch-America


 * I don't think you can. Bluepaladin 12:53, 3 June 2006 (UTC) (by the way, sign your name with four of these: ~ so we know who you are)

Can't Play Online
I dont know if a wikipedia discussion page is the place to be asking for help on a game, so if it isn't, simply tell me on my disscution page. Every time I try to go online on aoe3, it says "cannot connect you to ESO server" My computer works fine and my internet connection is fine-its not dial-up- so whats wrong? Russian F 16:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The best place to get help would be the tech support forum on agecommunity.com. At any rate, check to make sure that Windows isn't blocking any ports. You may have to use the overrideaddress command (instructions at agecommunity's forum) Kareeser|Talk! 19:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I haven't tried that yet, but I will.

Spam removal
I've removed a bunch of links that didn't appear to comply with WP:EL and WP:SPAM. Feel free to add any back which may comply with those policies/guidelines.-- Andeh 15:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Age of empires III military units
Why was this article deleted, it is NOT a game guide, it just lists the units in the game, a game guide tells strategies and how to use the units.

I agree, there is no reason to delete the article.

The article was deleted using the prod tag. If left uncontested for 5 days, the article is deleted. Unfortunately, there isn't anything we can do. And the fact that the article was left alone for 5 days signifies that not much traffic goes to it. (This is just one of the reasons, :)) Kareeser|Talk! 02:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

We can restore it, saved it, and would you rather fill this article up with a huge amount of units [superchad]


 * Nope, that would not be the wisest thing to do. Under What Wikipedia is not, Wikipedia isn't a collection of data. If you were reading about AOE3, but didn't have the game, would you want to read about every single unit there was? Not exactly, :) Kareeser|Talk! 20:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Then, what is the wisest thing to do? I didn't give much to the article myself, but it would not be fun to have written a lot about units and then get it deleted. The article about Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings icludes a list of units as well. Isn't there a discussion about the deletion or something? I'd like to see the reasons.


 * according to what wikipedia is not, the military unit article is considered okay, it is a list of units, and does not fall under any category in what wikipedia is not.


 * Says here: "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information


 * Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of items of information. That something is 100% true does not mean it is suitable for inclusion in an encyclopedia." Kareeser|Talk! 18:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia, also stands under What Wikipedia is not. Therefore there can be inclusions that never should be in a paper encyclopedia, such as Age of Empires III military units. In this discussion we also see a two-three persons with arguments for keeping the article, and for sure there are more, so there are users who would like to keep it.


 * You know, we wouldn't be having this article if prod hadn't become a standard. If the article was AFD'd, I'm sure you would've had a say, but the article is gone for good. Feel free to start another, as I wasn't the one who prodded it.
 * However, if you still contest the decision:
 * "Articles deleted under this procedure (using the PROD tag) may be undeleted, without a vote, on reasonable request. Any admin can be asked to do this, alternatively a request may be made at WP:DRV. However, such undeleted articles are open to be speedy deleted or nominated for WP:AFD under the usual rules.


 * Admins restoring deleted articles should place Oldprod on the talk page of the article. " Kareeser|Talk! 23:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

French settlers
More expensive settlers that work faster and double as light infantry, best at forging alliances with Native Americans, two forts can be sent, Explorer can heal, starts the game with a Native American scout

In the civilisations section of the article, It is said that the settlers double as light infantry when this is not true. The couriers have improved health and damage but are still no where near the power of light infantry. So i have taken this off. It would be much better to use them to gather and train infantry than use couriers as soldiers.

Culverin 08:18, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I suppose one could argue that in a pinch, they make sub-standard minutemen, especially when you're being rushed or whatnot. However, it's up to you. I won't interfere here. Kareeser|Talk! 23:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Archiving
''I have archived the old discussions as they were getting fairly long. See page Archive 2. - Ck l o stsw o rd|queta! 10:15, 27 August 2006 (UTC)''

Class B
Hey I'm rating this article as class B, but this article looks like it's almost ready for a GA nom. Needs a few footnotes though. --Clyde Miller 02:11, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Clyde. Perhaps we should ask for a Peer Review? This could be the next step for our progressing article. If no-one objects, I will submit a request before the end of the day. Ck l o stsw o rd|queta! 10:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, I have left this for 10 hours, so I'm submitting a peer review request here now. Ck l o stsw o rd|queta! 19:32, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Errors and Discrepancies
''I have removed this section from the article as, in my opinion, it does break Original Research rules. Please discuss at the end.'' Ck l o stsw o rd|queta! 11:00, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Janissaries are portrayed in the game as bearded, although in reality they were banned from wearing beards. Clicking on the top right corner of the stats screen of a Janissary recognizes that they were not allowed to grow beards.
 * In the campaign, Natives taken captive are portrayed as Incans in Florida. However, the Incans originate from South America.
 * The leader of the British civilization is Queen Elizabeth I; however, the Kingdom of Great Britain did not come into existence until over a century after her death.
 * The game confuses gunpowder with trinitrotoluene (TNT) several times, and the use of the latter is expressed before its supposed invention date. This is evident during in-game cinematics throughout the game.
 * St. Petersburg is portrayed as the main port of Russia. However, St. Petersburg was constructed during the reign of Peter the Great, not while Ivan the Terrible was in power.
 * The events of the Single Player Campaign begin in 1565, when the Ottoman Turks attack Malta. Therefore, Morgan Black could not have encountered the Aztec Empire, which had fallen in 1521.
 * Also in the Campaign, in the third act Amelia Black has to help Simon Bolivar gain independence for Latin America from Imperial Spain. However, Simon Bolivar died in 1830 and we are told that the third act begins just after the American Civil War, which ended in 1865.
 * The Doppelsöldner is a standard infantry unit while the Landsknecht is presented as an elite mercenary unit. However, Doppelsöldners were Landsknechts paid double for fighting on the front lines of combat. Clicking on the top right corner of the stats screen of a Doppelsöldner recognizes that they were elite Landsknechts. However, Doppelsoldner do, in fact, cost 200 resource units each as opposed to the 100 gold cost of Landsknecht units. They are also much stronger after their upgrades, while the Landsknecht units have no upgrades.
 * Hussite war wagons would be heavily anachronistic in a game that starts in the 16th century.
 * The dog soldiers were an elite warrior society of the Cheyenne tribe, which occasionally made alliances with the Lakota, but were not a part of them. Yet a dog soldier is featured as a "Lakota Dog Soldier" in Age of Empires III. Clicking on the top right corner of the stats screen of a dog soldier recognizes that they were part of the Cheyenne tribe, but most players do not read this.
 * The Seminole tribe, mostly of Creek tribal descent, did not exist prior to the 18th century. Tribes that inhabited Florida prior to that included numerous Timucuan tribes as well as the Ais, Calusa, Tequesta, Tocobaga, Mayaimi, Apalachee, and Jaega (among others).
 * Cherokee villages are seen as consisting of wigwams and longhouses. However, that is not their traditional pre-contact housing and structures. Their traditional homes were wattle and daub square or rectangular with thatched flat roofs, either an earthen or wattle and daub circular "winter"/"hot" house with a conical roof and thick mud walls they'd use during the cold winter, a large heptagon council house with a slight conical roof on a mound, and the village surrounded by palisades. Likewise, Seminole villages are consisted of wigwams when in fact they lived in chickees.
 * When accessing the French civilization section of the Age of Empires III Official Website, a date reads "23-8-45", supposedly signed by Napoleon. However, Napoleon was not alive in either 1745 nor 1845.
 * The game recognises dragoons as a ranged cavalry; however, the correct meaning would be an infantry unit that travelled on horseback and normally dismounted when fighting.
 * The flag for the Ottoman Empire is actually the flag for modern day Turkey and is therefore different from the historical flag.
 * The leader of the Spanish civilization in Age of Empires III is Queen Isabella of Castile who died in 1504, even though Spain wasn't a nation until 1516. The first king of Spain was Charles I of Spain (Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor).
 * The leader of the French civilization in Age of Empires III is Napoleon, however it was Louis XIV who oversaw the greatest expansion of France into the New World. In fact, Napoleon actually sold French Louisiana to America and therefore brought about an end to New France.
 * The Native American scouts given to the French at the beginning of the game almost always seem to be lost. For example, Inuits have been given to the French even while playing the Great Lakes map.
 * The maps sometimes seem to be incorrect, for example, the Great Lakes map has a circular lake with an island in the middle, more similar to Crater Lake than any of the five actual Great Lakes.
 * The game ends in the late 19th century, but still includes the civilizations Aztec, Maya and Inca, which had been annihilated in the 16th century. The expansion adds the Aztec as a playable civilization.
 * The flag for the French should be the modern one, seeing as it was when Napoleon ruled.
 * The Portuguese leader Henry the Navigator lived 1394-1460 the game is set from 1500 to 1850 though.
 * In the Russian home city (St Petersberg), one of the buildings is St Basil's Cathedral, which is actually in Moscow
 * The Ottoman empire played little to no role in the colonization of the Americas.
 * The Germans played a small role in trying to colonize Venezuela but ultimately failed, yet are featured in the game as if they were major players. Other nationalities that played small roles, whether successful or not, were the Swedes, Danes, Scottish, Welsh, and Courland but are not featured in the game.


 * References

References section
Looks good, except they should be listed in order of appearance in the article. For example, the very first line of the article points to source number 4, which should actually be number one. Small nitpick, fairly big difference. I'm unfamiliar with the references syntax, so I cannot fix it myself. Kareeser|Talk! 16:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Graphics Card
'This discussion is from Archive 2. It was incorrectly added to the top of the talk page on Aug. 25th, so I am reposting it here as there has been no reply' I really don't know what graphics card to get. In a screenshot at the article it showed a screenshot with the Nvidia 6600 at the highest settings. If logic serves me correctly the numbers should represent how powerful a graphics card is, correct? The problem is I found at a shop the Nvidia 7300 was much cheaper than the Nvidia 6X00.I looked at the back of the boxes and they both agree that the 7X00 is much better than the 6X00.However though the price difference confuses me. The 6X00 could have been a bonus package. So in short, what graphics card should I get? Does it even have to be a Nvidia product? 72.197.133.100 23:26, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The difference between the 6xxx series and the 7xxx series is the technology used. A good guideline is using price to determine performance. Yes, the 7300 utilises newer technology, but it may be lacking in other areas, such as available VRAM or transfer pipelines, hence contributing to a lower net performance. The 6800GT is at the top (I believe) of the 6000 series cards, and should perform very well.
 * For reference, I have a 6800 (non-GT). It runs aoe3 at moderate settings, and anti-aliasing cannot be turned on as performance suffers too much. However, it does the job very well.
 * As for your question regarding whether to go for ATi or nVIDIA, that's entirely up to you. Both developers' cards work equally well. Kareeser|Talk! 17:03, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies!I will take your suggestions into consideration but I have to work with a tight budget.So I guess I'll get more suggestions from professionals and decide which graphics card is right for me! Thanks! 72.197.133.100 02:36, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Coin or Gold?
So far, there appears to be no consistency in the article over whether the 'money' resource is called coin or gold. In all previous incarnations of the game, this resources has been gold, but in AoE III it is always coin when it is a stockpiled resource. (The mines themselves can be silver or gold). See page 76 of the manual. Ck l o stsw o rd|queta! 08:50, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No its definatley 'coin'. It states it in the manual. We should change this sometime. Not urgent, but in the long term. --Handmedown 10:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Development History
This is a really major point that is missing from our article. I just watched the making-of DVD that came with the special edition, but it does not provide much useful information. (The same is true for the rest of the material in the box). The only other (official) resource that I can think of is the official developers blog here. However, there is an huge amount of info there, so we need other editors to read through it. Please help! Ck l o stsw o rd|queta! 11:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Age/civilisation details
Both peer reviews have commented on our use of tables. I believe that (in the AGE section) the brief description of each Age is appropriate, but that we don't need a list of the new buildings that are available. Perhaps a general comment about the style of building available would fit into the description better?

However, I don't know what to do about the table for the civilisations. I like it, but I suspect that it is too detail for our purposes. Perhaps we should replace it with a list of the civilisations and a basic description of their advantages and disadvantages in the style of the differents age listings. Again, any suggestions would be welcomed. Ck l o stsw o rd|queta! 14:50, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Personally, I don't think we need any more information than is given in the manual. Germans have Settler wagons, Spainiards get earlier shipments, etc etc. So a trim would be a good idea. Kareeser|Talk! 03:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I inserted a new table sorting the 8 civilizations into the 3 architectural styles; note that this has also been done in the articles of AOE1 and AOE2... So why not in the one of AOE3? I think that if a table of the civilizations is to be inserted, it should be this one.

--TomasBat 03:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I also inserted a new table table with the civilization details ; but this table is better than the previouse, since:


 * It is more basic; without too many details


 * It is not so unstable; it has better appearance and is shorter, not so gigantic.


 * The flags are the real game flags, and not other flags which are similiar.


 * It is similiar to the one in the Age of Empires III: The Warchiefs article, which recieves no negative critism.

--TomasBat 01:48, 20 January 2007 (UTC)