Talk:Agent Smith/Archive 1

As Smith is not technically human, he does not qualify as a sociopath. --Treybien 14:52 29 May 2006 (UTC)

This is an interesting article, but it's written more like an original essay than an encyclopedia article and should probably stick away from saying 'probably' so much. I think it needs to be revised, but I can't do it because I haven't seen Revolutions yet and I don't want to be spoiled ;) -- Tlotoxl 10:25, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * Seconded. The article is an original piece of work, not an encyclopedia article, as it stands. -- Jon Dowland 13:52, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Smith never says that "humans" smells bad, he is talking about the Matrix as a whole. --Feitclub 19:21, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)


 * He does say "I can taste your stink" to Morpheus (emphasis mine), though, which implies he's referring to the humans. Sockatume 22:19, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Hmm, good point, I was thinking of the earlier line...something like "You have to help me get out of here...I can't stand it anymore...It's the smell!" Maybe a slight edit can reflect that. --Feitclub 23:04, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)


 * There's a certain irony to what he says: "I can taste your stink, and every time I do, I fear that I have somehow been infected by it." After all, he winds up infecting all of the Matrix himself. Ties in with "You are a virus" too. Sockatume 06:42, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"The police guards that provide security to the Australian prime minister dress is a similar manner to Smith and his agents, and have the same type of earpieces." Why is the Australian prime minister explicitly mentioned? Both the dress and the earpiece are standard issue for bodyguards, at least in Western societies, AFAIK. --AlexR 04:48, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Probably because the movie was filmed in Australia, there's a perceived specific link.

One thing I noticed about Smith that's definitely not important enough to go in the article, but I thought I'd mention it here because it's kind of amusing - In all the fights Agent Smith get into, he starts out not fighting very intensely, but then, early on in the fight, gets his sunglasses broken, and that's when he starts fighting all out. Oracleoftruth 23:05, 9 May 2005 (UTC)


 * 5mith has emotional issues, his fighting style is brute force rather than skill.

"Smith Mad, Smith Smash!" MajinPalgen 20:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

secrete service
It is suggested that the Secret Service is more appropriate, as they are the ones who actually investigate hackers and computer crime. WRONG, secrete service defence the US currency and the preseident, FBI handles shit like hackers.

I didnt know where to put this, so dont get mad at me but there should be more on the specifics of smith's deletion.....it just kinda skips over WHY hes destroyed when he absorbes neo....like how the matrix could delete him because neo was connected to the source and thus so was smith after the absorption......thats the part ive had the most trouble finding information on and its totally ignored in the article...someone other than me should revise it
 * the reason that you are having so much trouble finding information on that particular question is very likely the same reason that it is not covered well in this article. that reason being, that it wasn't explained well in any source that can be considered canon. all we know is that, neo goes to the machine city, he meets with the deus ex, they make a deal and noe gets plugged in, back in the matrix, neo meets smith, they fight in a rather dragon ball z maner, neo gets thrown into the ground is looks rather defeated while smith is prepairing for the final blow, smith says something that doesn't sound right, overwrites neo, the new smith says that its finished, then back in the machine city, deus ex zapps ol' neo's body, and back in the matrix all the smiths turn into white light and everything is back to normal. its never really explained as to what exactly deus ex did to neo, or what neos plan was, or if deus just jumped on an opertunity, or what. many theories of an unencyclipedic nature cluttered this page up pretty badly until most of them were removed. sorry to be long winded, but long story short, its not on there because we don't know, untill "the matrix: tying up lose ends" comes out, then your guess is as good as anyone's. --Manwithbrisk 00:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Accent?
Is there some way to mention Agent Smith's slow speach and strong midwestern accent (or Canadian, I had trouble telling specifically) in this article?

This Smith picture stinks. I don't even know where in the movie it's from.
 * Well, why not instead of complaining, put your own picture in?
 * Some fan you are. It's from the scene in the hallways just before Neo meets the Archtitect.  But it does stink - my personal favorite image of him would be when he's approaching Neo in the Burly Brawl scene. Hbdragon88 07:16, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Path of Neo?
Does anyone want to mention the Path of Neo "Monster Mega-smith" ending? Even as a small note? i agree the meag smith monster was rubbish perhaps by allowing u 2 run at him then fly etc it probably could have been a lot harder big dissapointment in the matrix path of neo game


 * "Monster Mega-Smith" was a childish joke ruining the more realistic gaming sense and was by far quit easy to destroy.


 * I hate this sequence so much that I play the game until that point and simply quit and watch the tail end of Revolutions. Because in the movie Smith wins in my opinion, in the game Neo wins. I prefer Smith.


 * This is a little off topic, and I haven't even played the game. But it is not a matter of opinion - Smith doesn't win after all now, does he?

What happens to the humans?
The human that becomes Smith, what happens? Does he only take the simulated body, and what happens to the human after that?


 * 1'd guess the Matrix was defragged, then restored and the humans were all put back into their real bodies for a moment (Which is why the programs were left inside the matrix while the defrag happened) and re-introduced into the program quickly with their "digital self-images" and their minds erased of the weird events. It's as good as any guess. MajinPalgen 20:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's explicitedly stated anywhere (except possibly in the Matrix Online, which I've never played.) But judging from the fact that the process would involving rewriting their brains, my guess is that it'd be irreversible. If I recall correctly, in Revolutions, there was a scene talking about all kinds of damage to Banes head when he was being examined by Maggie. Coupled with Neo's quote "It felt like dying," I'd say the overall intent was to imply that the original mind is basically dead.--Foot Dragoon 06:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * But Sati, Seraph, and the Oracle were restored intact, and I don't think human and machine minds are that different. Noneofyourbusiness 23:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The Oracle
Should it be mentioned that Smith's "everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo" is exactly the same as what the Oracle said to Neo once? In my opinion that's why he got up, the fact that Smith was somehow being slightly controlled by the Oracle somehow made him realise thats how to defeat him - from the inside...


 * what i don't understand is why do we asume that the smith neo fights at the end is the one that was formerly the oracle?

was it stated in commentairy? i don't know it just seems odd that it would be that particular smith, rather than the first smith some clairification on that point would be most welcome--Manwithbrisk 20:51, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It was stated the Smith Neo faces is the Oracle. She's the only one left lying in the crater, and Smith can do stuff he couldn't do before (fly, see the future, take tons more damage). Ggctuk 12:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I am Legion
7he matrix has an underlying biblical sediment to it. I’ve noticed a reference to the Merovingian as the devil, like to notate a reference that Smith could also represent Legion (demon). MajinPalgen 20:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Theories of deletion
As fun as it is to speculate about, this whole section seems to violate WP:NOR. I don't want to be a dick but without sources it really seems like it should go, otherwise everybody will stick in their own pet theory. Going to published sources could improve the article as well as a number of smart people and academics have written about The Matrix.--ThreeAnswers 03:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Much agreed. The whole theory section should go. -- Jon Dowland 14:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * 1 agree that it may violate WP:NOR, but I do see a use for the possible explanations. I think we should limit it to more plausible (detailed) theories, rather than just A+B=End. I'd like to see it stay, but I know that doesn't mean that it is allowed to stay. MajinPalgen 19:31, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, so let's start by taking some of them out... What's with that one saying the agents are possibly former "the Ones"? That's absurd. Well, It's a theory, you say. Er... NO! VdSV9• ♫ 19:01, 19 April 2006 (UTC) (you might have noticed I have taken out the a second theory is... and so on from each paragraph because it makes it seem like it is ordered as the best and most widely accepted ones first...

Do we even know that he is dead? The clones are gone, but the original may still be hanging around somewhere, sulking. :) GuesssWho 07:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Original research
Statements like these really need to be sourced:

"...shaped like the protein capsules of certain viruses..."

"...can be seen as the Everyman..."

"...an odd observation..."

and so on. N (t/c) 03:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I can only agree. The weasel words really need to go. Too much work has gone into an article over 3 years old for it to be degraded by such phrases. Work on it and the tags can go and the article be greatly improved. Articles like this can make great articles for people looking for this kind of information. MartinDK 20:13, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Category:Fictional personifications of evil
Someone removed Smith from the 'fictional personifications of evil' category, saying that "This character does not seem to act as a embodiment of evil as a concept, or as a metiphorical symbol of evil, although this is debatable." Does anyone besides me totally disagree with this? Noneofyourbusiness 23:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I totally disagree with you. I previously removed this article from that category (it had been vastly over-populated), because I think that Smith isn't a 'personification of evil'. He doesn't represent evil as a concept, which is what would be required as a personification. If you disagree, it might be worth saying why you disagree... Wibbble 23:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Because he's the archetypal villain and representation of evil in the Matrix films, just as Neo is the archetypal hero and representation of humanity. Smith is the personification of an all-consuming hatred and destructive (ultimately self-destructive) impulse that would eradicate both humans and Machines. I agree with you that the category has been somewhat overpopulated with characters that are just villains and not personifications of evil, but Smith is the figure of evil in the Matrix. Noneofyourbusiness 17:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * But he isn't really a symbol of evil, just a villain. And he's sympathetic, in his way-confused and angry. GuesssWho 07:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Original research
I've tagged this article with the unreferenced tag and the original research tag. The reasons are that the article is written as if most of the information, except for the LOTR joke and the Directors' quote, was compiled from just watching the three Matrix movies. I think that qualifies as Original Research. I mean, anything other than a description of the movies' plots should include sources, such as character interpretations, analyses, and descriptions. For example, check out the following excerpts from the Stylistic genealogy section:


 * "The look and manner of Smith and his fellow Agents seem to be drawn from the common pool of paranoia and American pop culture. One influence appears to be the popular image of federal law enforcement agents as ruthlessly efficient automata who carry out their duties with cold precision and General American accents."

The phrases in bold are not objective, as are the determinations of the character's symbolism, and therefore should be verified and referenced with an outside reliable source, and not from one editor who just saw the movie. Another example:


 * "In addition, the name "Smith" is explicitly attributed (as "IS 5416" on the license plate of Smith's car in Reloaded) to the Book of Isaiah 54:16 from the Old Testament:


 * "Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy."


 * In creating such a program to carry out menial tasks, the Machines lay the foundations for their own destruction, a direct parallel to the creation of AI by humankind.

And finally, another example:


 * The two later films in the series make much of the dialectical opposition of Smith and Neo. Smith is pitiless and single-minded, focused on finality, conformity and "inevitability." As such, Smith represents determinism. By contrast, Neo, with his unpredictable, emotional, human nature, represents unbounded free will and the power of choice. Neo's solitary role as The One is contrasted by Smith, who, by replicating himself, becomes 'the many'. When Neo asks the Oracle about Smith, the Oracle explains that Smith is Neo's opposite and his negative.

This information is not explicitly expressed in the movie, it is actually a determination of the editor. Although the license plate does appear in the movie, the explanation of the plate's link to the Book of Isaiah may not be interpreted in the same way by other users. Also, the interpretation of the characters' representation is subjective. Therefore, for the sake of verifiability, original research, and NPOV guidelines, any determinations, assertions and interpretations should be referenced with an outside source.

If you disagree, let's talk about it. Post what you think. - Mtmelendez 20:04, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

The following are suggestions for references:


 * Citing interviews with the Wachowski brothers, whether it be in DVD special features, magazines, news channles, etc.
 * Citing interviews with the actors and producers
 * Citing verifiable analyses made by movie critics, experts, etc.
 * Specify the location of the source (i.e. where the interview can be found, news article date and author; movie review weblink, etc.)

The list is incomplete, but you get the picture. - Mtmelendez 20:18, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Referring to Neo as "Neo" and not Mr. (Thomas Anderson)
The article cites that Agent Smith only addressed Neo as "Neo" (as opposed to Mr. Anderson) twice and only once while face-to-face with Neo. There is one other occurance of Agent Smith referring to Neo as "Neo" while face-to-face with him. It occurs during The Matrix while Neo is being interrogated in an interview room by agents Smith, Brown and Thompson. As Agent Smith is scrolling through the book which documents his (Neo's) life in the matrix so far, Agent Smith states that he (Neo) goes by the hacker alias "Neo" and is guilty of virtually every computer crime they have a law for.

Just thought I'd mention it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Daddyl23 (talk • contribs) 00:11, 7 April 2007 (UTC).