Talk:Agustín Ramos Calero

Second-most decorated soldier?
Are we just counting decorations and not the grade of the decoration received? There were thousands of soldiers who won the Medal of Honor, and/or the Distinguished Service Cross or the Navy Cross which arguably may say more about being decorated than the actual number of decorations. Audie Murphy did win both the Medal of Honor and the Distinguished Service Cross as I think a few others have during WWII.


 * References and facts speak for themselves. It isn't about how many medals for valor that he was awarded, it is about the amount of decoration he was awarded.Tony the Marine 03:25, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Harvey Possinger has won a total of 26 medals for his service in WWII, one shy of Audie Murphy. That would make Mr. Possinger the second-most decorated soldier of the war. http://vetstribute.com/candleburning/index.htm


 * Sgt. Harvey Possinger was a true American War heroe who deserves the Medal of Honor. However, he was awarded 26 medals throughout the span of his military career.  Audie Murphy was awarded 27 for his actions in WWII alone. This is about the amount of decorations awarded for ones actions during WWII and not about the amount of decorations awarded during ones military career span, otherwise Chesty Puller would be way up there.  I highly recommend that we all join the movements asking for the Medal of Honor for Harvey Possinger and Guy Gabaldon. Tony the Marine 18:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

This information is not correct. Thousands of soldiers received those awards, and hundreds were awarded the Medal of Honor and the DSC, thus making such allegation false. LTC Hector Gonzalez(TASS Instructor Command and General Staff College and native Puerto Rican).


 * LTC Gonzalez, with all due respect you seem to misunderstand the difference between the soldier who was awarded the MoH or DSC and maybe 4 other medals to one that was awarded 22 military decorations as a total. Maybe you didn't have the time to read the other discussions on this page, because for sure you would have realized that what has been taken into consideration here is the quantity (total amount) of decorations awarded and not the importance (grade) of the particular decorations themselves. He was the most decorated Hispanic in WW II by quantity and that fact is backed up by the reliable verifiable sources which have been posted as required by policy. If you or anyone can find any other Hispanic who was awarded more then 22 decorations in WW II, regardless of the importance of said decorations and provide reliable verifiable sources to said claim then be my guest and please let us know, however until that happens, if ever, said information on this article stays as is. Have you ever heard of SFC Jorge Otero Barreto, the most decorated soldier in the Vietnam War? I don't think that you have. The highest grade medal which Otero was awarded were two Silver Stars, he was not awarded the MoH nor the DSC, yet with 38 military decorations in Nam, he is the most decorated "American" soldier of that conflict. Enough said.  02:44, 20 September 2009 (UTC)Tony the Marine (talk) 02:44, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Tony Thanks for your response. Remember decoration for an individual is when is awarded for him solely for personal gallantry or achievement; For example the Silver Star and the French Croix De Guerre awarded to SFC Ramos-Calero were awarded to him in his own right for exceptional courage. For example the National Defense Medal is a "general award" to everyone that served during that period, thus not a decoration for the individual per se. For example The Presidential Unit Citation and the French Fouragere are unit awards not individual decorations. As for myself I have collected in my 31 years of service from Infantry Pvt. to Infantry LTC 15 ribbons (one of them with 7 oak leaves clusters, one with 2 stars, three of them with numerals 2 to 4) and a Unit award for combat in Iraq (as did the other 740 soldiers in my unit), and that does not make me a highly decorated soldier, it makes me a soldier with highly amount of ribbons and devices. "Rule of Thumb" Individual Awards (for valor or for achievement), General Service Awards, and Unit Awards. SFC Ramos Calero served in the same division during WWII as PFC Jose F. Valdez (3rd Infantry Division), PFC Valdez was awarded the Medal of Honor, the Purple Heart and the French Croix de Guerre all for valor, plus by virtue of both being in the same division (as did thousands of members of the 3rd Division) the same badges, campaign medals, and unit awards as SFC Ramos. If ribbons and awards from the Korean war are added to bring the number to 22, then what happens if you do the same for SFC Modesto Cartagena(WWII, Korea) from Cayey, P.R. (DSC,Silver Star, Bronze star with “V”, Legion of Merit). By no means I want to diminish SFC Ramos service to our nation or his courage, but we the ones that make assertions must be real careful in what we inform or how present facts and not tarnish in the process the memory and service of those that fought so bravely for our nation.. Enough said…


 * I fully understand everything that you are saying, after all I was the one who wrote the bios. of PFC Jose F. Valdez and SFC Modesto Cartagena. The situation here is that we cannot indulge in "original research" as per policy and must rely on verifiable sources. The sources are the ones who may have gotten their information mixed up. They are prsoldier.com and Borinqueneers.com (see here: Borinqueneers) the same people who made the documentary on the 65th Infantry. If they fix their information then we can make the corrections citing them. Also, if there is another reliable verifiable source which states the total amount of individual, general and unit decorations which SFC Ramos Calero received during World War II, then we can do the same, however until that source is made public and provided, we will have to stick with what we have. You know, I was wondering, maybe you can find his military records with his military decorations and then with your help I can make the proper fixes. Tony the Marine (talk) 19:10, 7 November 2009 (UTC)