Talk:Ahmad Batebi

Attempted Cleanup
I have tried to improve the article's organization, and readability and add sources. --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:30, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

What is this attempt to change history here?
In each and every interview that Ahmad Batebi gave after leaving Iran, he unequivocally said that Lily Mazahery, his American lawyer, is the one who helped him get to the U.S. The Kurdish group only assisted in his transit and safeguarded him while he was awaiting the approval of his relocation to the U.S. by American officials who were working on his case with Ms. Mazahery. Every publication in every language all around the world has stated this fact, including New York Times, and anyone who knows anything about this case is aware of Ms. Mazahery's role in Batebi's escape from Iran, arrival to the U.S., and his subsequent resettlement. What is the malicious reasoning behind whoever it is that keeps changing this page to erase this important fact from Batebi's page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manime87 (talk • contribs) 20:16, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

No role in escape from Iran?!
"An Underground Railroad

On a Yahoo chat site, on March 13, Mr. Batebi contacted Ms. Mazahery, the lawyer, who he knew had helped other Iranians get into the United States. At the same time, through a connection made in prison, Mr. Batebi sought help from the underground Kurdish Democratic Party of Iran, which soon directed him to Argentine Square in Tehran." From New York Times:  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/world/middleeast/13dissident.html/partner/rssnyt?_r=1&pagewanted=2

Why would Ahmad Batebi contact Lily Mazahery when he did if not to seek her assistance in escaping Iran? What's more, it is common knowledge among those familiar with the "underground [international] railroad" mentioned in the New York Times that Mazahery is a key player in the underground efforts that move high profile dissidents and other persons facing serious security threats from danger (i.e. places such as Iran) to safe locations. Leaders of the KDPI have acknowledged this fact, and they even rely on Mazahery and her international network to move members of their own families! Any suggestion that Mazahery had no role in Batebi's escape from Iran is absolutely absurd and inaccurate.Manime87 (talk) 15:35, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Article tagging
Each of the concerns listed in the tag at the top of the article should have a corresponding explanation here on the talk page detailing what the tagger feels is wrong. Without such an explanation, the concerns can be seen a baseless accusations. Anyone who has these concerns is invited to detail them here. If no one bothers to do so, I'll be removing the tags.  AK Radecki Speaketh  17:50, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Reasons for tags
I had noticed that Ahmad Batebi and users who obviously had the same intentions as he (such as Shayan7 and Emptyspace2008) were disrupting the page continuously by deleting verified and historical facts, changing the content with recent events and misleading information that could not be verified in any way, including links to his personal website in the middle of the page, posting personal views and even using the page as a forum to attack other individuals! As hard as it was for me to believe my eyes about what was happening, there was no doubt that Batebi himself was disrupting his Wikipedia page as he was using "Ahmadbatebi" as his user name, and had posted the exact same questionable content on his own website.

These users were manipulating the information to suit the subject/editor's own wishes about what the facts of his life should be instead of what they actually have been as reported over time in various sources linked to the information that Batebi and his friends continously deleted. Batebi and the person(s)assisting him (I say this because I do not think that he can speak or write English, but I may be wrong about this) repeatedly eliminated neutral, verified historical facts, and made assertions that were highly questionable, not to mention entirely unsourced. In this context, the editors' actions presented a significant conflict of interest. What is worse, these editors accompanied their inappropriate and manipulative acts with threats launched against users who rightfully corrected their disruptive acts, personal attacks and even defamatory acts. Given that all of these actions are in violation of Wikipedia rules and policies, I tagged the article for significant admin review.--Joaj (talk) 20:54, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I fully agree with the need for the COI tag. I and a couple of others have been doing some cleanup...is the material that concerns you still present, or has it been removed?  AK Radecki Speaketh  00:24, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the efforts. The material that concerned me have been removed for the most part, yes.  However, there are still some questionable unsourced materials, and, I regret to say that I believe that the information will once again be distorted or replaced with misleading, unsourced, original source, and unverified content.  I hope I am wrong. --Joaj (talk) 16:23, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

What is wrong with this guy?
Despite repeated warnings from numerous editors, Ahmad Batebi continues to disrupt this page! Not only does he continue to delete historical facts that have been fully verified and sourced, but he posts outright lies and personal attacks on other individuals! This conduct is absolutely outrageous and should not be tolerated for any reason. I have never seen anything like this! If this continues, I would like to nominate the page to be deleted altogether so that Batebi can not use it as his own personal outlet for whatever version of facts suit him on the particular day. --Vistaboy99 (talk) 02:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Here is an audio recording of Batebi in 2008 in a conversation with Mohammad Hassan Javadi, the Deputy Intelligence Minister of Iran. A brief English overview precedes the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifZ71_ecDmM Foster.Allison (talk) 06:09, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * His edits have been reverted and he has been blocked..  AK Radecki Speaketh  03:03, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, do you honestly think that once the 24 hour block expires, he would refrain from continuing his disingenuous disruptions? And the only reason that he can no longer do the same to other pages these days is because those specific pages have been protected by edit locks. This behavior is not only bizarre, but absolutely inappropriate, inexcusable, and unacceptable. I hope that this user's actions will be carefully monitored not only on this page, but others as well.  --Vistaboy99 (talk) 03:12, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Whether I honestly think that he'll refrain is irrelevant. Blocks are preventative, not punitive, and we follow a process of progressively extending the block length time, unless the editor comes to understand how we do things around here. There's nothing wrong with a short block and giving a person a chance to reform. In this particular case, if you've been following the editor's talk page, things have taken an entirely different twist, but that outcome does not change the validity of our process to start with short blocks to try to get the editor's attention.  AK Radecki Speaketh  17:19, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Substitution of verified, neutral pov content with unsourced or original source materials continue
Since Ahmad Batebi himself has been blocked from editing this page, user Shayan7 who appears to be the English translator of Ahmad Batebi, continues to do exactly what Batebi was warned against doing. Shayan7 deletes verified information with unsourced and original source info that has recently been posted on Batebi's website as a reaction to Wikipedia's administrative interventions. As such, only the username of the editor has changed from Ahmadbatebi to Shayan7! The actions are precisely the same. They are inappropriate, disruptive, and lack a neutral point of view or properly sourced information.--Joaj (talk) 15:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I have left a note about this on User:Shayan7;s talk page, and I want to address everyone here, as well: One of the basic tenants at Wikipedia is that we depend on 3rd party sources that are independent of their source. I can't stress that enough. Replacing such sources with Batebi's own text, whether he does it in person or it is referenced to his website, is simply not appropriate.


 * Secondly, I'd like to stress something else to everyone here, it is what we call the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. What this means is that editors are encouraged to be bold, but if their bold contributions are reverted, they go discuss them on the talk page, rather than re-inserting them. I really don't want to see this deteriorate into an edit war, but if it does, I won't hesitate to protect the page until things get discussed on the talk page.


 * So, Shayan7, I would strongly suggest that you post here rather than in the article, and propose what you want to see changed, and more importantly, why, in terms of our policies and guidelines, it should be changed.  AK Radecki Speaketh  22:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Citing some of the changes Batebi has made about accounts of his life's story
I just wanted to provide this information to make the point that Batebi has changed his story and is now attempting to discredit someone who, based on his own admission, played a significant role in his life, as well to counter Shayan7's on going misinformation:


 * Amiri, Nooshabeh (July 8, 2008). "[The Story of the Great Escape: Fleeing Iran in Interview with Ahmad Batebi]" (in English). "At the intelligence office in Iraq, we told them that we were linked to the &lrm;Democratic Party. They sent us to a different bureau. Then the Democratic Party vehicles &lrm;arrived and they took us to Kooe. This is the headquarters of the Democratic Party. They &lrm;provided me with a house to hide in. I stayed there and did not leave it. Then on my &lrm;request and that of my attorney in the US, they took me to the UN office in the town of &lrm;Arbil. Fortunately, the official there knew of me. They processed my paper work very &lrm;rapidly and asked me where I wanted to go. I did not have a specific place in mind. I had &lrm;remained in contact with some of my friends through email and had told them that I had &lrm;been forced to leave the country. They suggested three places: France, Canada and the &lrm;US. They felt these places were the best for remaining active. So I named these countries &lrm;to the UN person. 'At the same time, my US attorney, Lili Mazaheri (sp) was following my &lrm;case until.


 * Shane, Scott; Michael Gordon (July 13, 2008). "[A dissident's epic escape from Iran to the U.S.]" (in English). On a Yahoo chat site, on March 13, Batebi contacted Mazahery, the lawyer, who he knew had helped other Iranians get into the United States. At the same time, through a connection made in prison, Batebi sought help from the underground Kurdish Democratic Party of Iran, which soon directed him to Argentine Square in Tehran.(International Herald Tribune): pp. 2..


 * ["Silent No More"] (The Economist). July 10, 2008. "Ahmad Batebi is cagey about how exactly he escaped.".


 * ["The Story of The Big Escape, Interview with Ahmad Batebi about his escape from Iran and resettlement in the U.S."] (in Farsi)By Nooshabeh Amiri, Rooz Online, July 7, 2008..

بالاخره به خواست خودم و وکیلم در &rlm;آمریکا از آنها خواستم مرا به دفتر سازمان ملل در اربیل معرفی کنند"."

از این طرف &rlm;هم وکیلم، خانم لیلی مظاهری، پیگیری کرد تا اینکه بعد از دو سه ماه...&rlm;

مسئولین سازمان ملل در عراق تصمیم گرفتند مرا هر چه زودتر از عراق خارج کنند وبه &rlm;سوئد بفرستند.اما قبل از اینکه این اتفاق بیفتد خانم لیلی مظاهری، وکیل من در آمریکا پذیرش آمریکا را &rlm;گرفت و من به اتریش رفتم و از آنجا به آمریکا.

&rlm;


 * ["Epic Escape of A Political Activist from Iran to the United States"](in Farsi), BBC News, July 14, 2008..

هرالد تریبون توضیح می دهد که لیلی مظاهری، وکیل ایرانی تبار ساکن آمریکا، به آقای باطبی برای سکونت در آمریکا کمک می کند.

روز 13 مارس، احمد باطبی با استفاده از چت یاهو با خانم لیلی مظاهری، وکیل ایرانی که به تعداد دیگری از ایرانیان برای ورود به آمریکا کمک کرده بود، تماس گرفت و همزمان، از طریق رابطی که در زندان با او آشنا شده بود، با فعالان حزب دموکرات کردستان تماس برقرار کرد و ترتیب قرار ملاقاتی در میدان آرژانتین تهران گذاشته شد.

This, of course, is not an exhaustive list by any means. Also, it does not include the numerous TV and radio interviews in which Batebi had explained Mazahery's role in his escape and life, which, for whatever reason, he is now trying to hide. This is why using original source materials, particularly from a person's personal website, as Shayan7 has suggested we should do, can be problematic. Batebi has changed the "facts" of his life several times by now, and, quite frankly, has created a significant credibility issue for himself.--Autoplay91 (talk) 15:52, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Ahmadbatebi was not treated fairly here
User:Ahmadbatebi attempted to add information to the article that corroborates what is in reputable publications.

Joaj, Vistaboy, Manime and Autoplay, who disparage Batebi and his edits here, are all sockpuppets of the same user and are now banned. This Talk page contains their comments, which are clearly uncivil. They also wrote uncivil comments to Ahmadbatebi on his talk page. The administrators responded by blocking User:Ahmadbatebi, when perhaps they should have assumed good faith and given clear guidance about how he could edit his own biography. His ignorance of WP policy regarding writing one's own biography is forgivable, in my opinion, given that he was a new WP user at the time. If he is indeed Ahmad Batebi, he would also be a recent immigrant to the English-speaking world and his grasp of English may be imperfect. BTW, editing your own biography is not against WP policy so long as you adhere to NPOV and BLP policies like every other editor is expected to. Ahmadbatebi's response to the warning was "I don't understand." No one explained the policies to him.

Please leave a supportive message here and on Batebi's talk page if you agree, to show WP community solidarity and to let him know that we do not condone injustice. Batebi is a former Iranian political prisoner granted asylum in the U.S. Since this is an article with strong political overtones, I am concerned there is more than meets the eye regarding the Joaj sockpuppets. --AFriedman (talk) 08:30, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Enough with this guy's lies
Batebi has lied about everything about his life, including how he really got out of Iran, got to the U.S. and has been living there since. Stop defending this guy when there is substantial evidence to show that he is a liar and a crook. Enough already with this B.S. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.170.113.97 (talk) 01:30, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's possible to criticize the accuracy of the edits Ahmadbatebi made without name-calling, and within the scope of WP:CIVIL. If you do come up with other information about him, please also make sure that it adheres to WP:Verifiability, especially since this is a biography of a living person covered in WP:BLP.  By the way, User:Ahmadbatebi has yet to verify that he really is Ahmad Batebi, and at this point, I don't think you can complain about his recent Wikipedia actions given that he's been blocked for quite some time.  -- AFriedman   (talk)  02:40, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

83.170.113.97, Please Remain Civil In Your Comments On Wikipedia
"Incivility consists of personal attacks, rudeness, and aggressive behaviours that disrupt the project and lead to unproductive stress and conflict." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility

I hope that future posts on this page will meet Wikipedia's guidelines for civility. It's absolutely not appropriate to insult the subject of an article on the article's talk page. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and not a place to spread unsubstantiated and hurtful slander about people.

The talk page of the anonymous user at IP address 83.170.113.97 shows that they have been repeatedly warned for making non-constructive edits to the page on Langhorne, Pennsylvania: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:83.170.113.97. All of the messages currently on the talk page of 83.170.113.97 relate to the use of this account for vandalism. Among other non-constructive edits, 83.170.113.97 claimed that "Pee Wee Dickens, Midget Porn Star" was among the notable residents of Langhorne, added to the section on the Langhorne economy: "The annual pimps and hoes dance is held every summer," and claimed in the section on the geography of Langhorne: "Langhorne Borough is located at my ass."

The many people around the world who are deeply inspired by Ahmad Batebi's courage and integrity may be upset by the comment posted by the anonymous user at IP address 83.170.113.97. However, since the previous edits of the user who posted this uncivil comment are not notably accurate, I sincerely hope that no one will take the unsubstantiated claims above seriously enough to be upset by them. CordeliaNaismith (talk) 02:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Cordelia, I wholeheartedly agree with your first statements and your conclusion. You really drove home this critical point.  Given that this is an IP address, however, it's plausible that this is a shared or public computer and the person who vandalized the Langhorne, Pennsylvania article was different from the one who made this edit.  The nature of the editing seemed somewhat different, and there was a period of months between the Langhorne edits and this one.  So, I'm not sure the user should be blamed for the Langhorne edits, even though I was truly disturbed by the recent edit to this page.  -- AFriedman   (talk)  02:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

===oh how you are all fooled by this person. truly regrettable. try digging a bit deeper and maybe, just maybe, you would discover the truth and have the wool taken off your eyes.
 * This previous post gives no facts, let alone verifiable information that has positive value for improving this encyclopaedia. Please note that the talk page of an article is not the appropriate place to run a smear campaign against the subject of the article.CordeliaNaismith (talk) 15:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Baseless acusation against BATEBI
Regarding this paragraph (at the end of the text):

''"In July of 2011, Batebi's former fiancee disclosed that she has been cooperating with the FBI in an investigation by the United States Federal law enforcement authorities concerning potential ties between Batebi and Iran's intelligence agencies.[15]" ''

The source is a weblog which it seems has connection with Iran's government. Also as far as I know weblogs can not be trusted sources for Wiki. Thanks. --Discodancer2000 (talk) 12:40, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

correction
Irrelevant data without a definite proof is omitted from the article. Please report any misuse. Leo71538 (talk) 17:45, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

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Religious background?
His Twitter bio (at https://twitter.com/radiojibi) contains the Hebrew letters בה, which would be an a an abbreviation for בהאי. Does this mean that he identifies as a member of the Bahá'í Faith? —Moxfyre (ǝɹʎℲxoɯ &#124; contrib) 05:51, 30 December 2017 (UTC)


 * He wrote an interesting article about Bahai's (lack of) religious freedom and access to education in 2008 (https://web.archive.org/web/20120114010830/http://www.iranian.com/main/2008/freedom-all) and the preface to that article says "Mr. Batebi is not associated with the Bahai community.(1)"… with a link back to this very Wikipedia article :-P. —Moxfyre (ǝɹʎℲxoɯ &#124; contrib) 05:58, 30 December 2017 (UTC)