Talk:Ahmići massacre

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BetacommandBot (talk) 11:30, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Warning about addition of inflamatory material
The addition of the material "Bosniak propaganda about Ahmići massacre" by an IP and Aradic-es by these two adjacent edits 1st, 2nd. Then subsequent edit war with ICTYoda and mainly PRODUCER to keep this material in is highly inflamatory. This what I call a whinge about Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) using the massacre as propaganda against Croats, when in 1993 up to 120 people including babies and old women were massacred in what the International War Crimes Tribuanl has ruled crimes against humanity. This completely highlights a lack of any perspective and is bordering on abusiveness. Aradic-es cites three blogs as sources. This sort of nonsense should not be welcome on wikipedia and I have completely lost my sympathy with Aradic-es's complaints about being reverted. Polargeo (talk) 08:53, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I invite Aradic - es to remove his recent edit and continuation of this edit war. I request this is not done by others involved in the edit war or they too may face sanctions. Polargeo (talk) 08:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The section is indeed mostly inflammatory nonsense. However, I suggest we include a brief sentence like this: (and source it with the stuff)
 * "Bosniak wartime propaganda and nationalist elements have since heavily exploited the events to paint a negative image of CR Herzeg-Bosnia, and even, on occasion, (Bosnian) Croats in general."
 * That would take out the WWII crap... is the wording NPOV? (I tried to make it as neutral as possible, while still conveying the message - not easy) -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 22:40, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm assuming the "the stuff" is the forum nonsense Aradic added, these aren't reliable sources. As long as its not original research and you can find reliable sources (preferably in English for Polargeo's sake) to back up the claim, it's fine with me. On another note, Franjo Tudman's efforts in covering up Ahmici should be mentioned also. PRODUCER (talk) 22:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Heh, you're right... I wouldn't believe it but its all crap forums :P, they're not fit to be introduced in the article at all. You're absolutely right in keeping it out, there isn't even a moderate "middle-ground" here. Ok, I recommend the stuff remains out in its entirety. (btw, Aradic-es, the Handschar was SS, not Ustaše.) -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 08:27, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Numbers killed
The number killed cannot just be changed like this without getting a reference for the new number. Wikipedia relies on being verifiable. The number 103 is stated as "According to the ECMM report, at least 103 people were killed during the attack on Ahmići" and it appears that this is correct. If the actual number after more research has been done is 116 then you can add that in but you need a source. At present the article says "at least 103" not "103" Polargeo (talk) 08:57, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The number of casualties in Ahmic was 116-please refer to the link for names and number as per my change. http://ahmici.info/spisak.html RighteousBosnian. I am a survivor of this Atrocity and lost my dearest-my father was one of those brutally murdered while the British UN troops sat idly by and watched this massacre happen. After wards they loaded the bodies onto their vehicles, without respect that these people were fathers, sons, mother, wives, daughters, brother and sisters.
 * I have great respect for you in this but please note the number quoted in the article is the "minimum" estimate according the European Union monitors. If you wish to put in another number please quote a reliable source (WP:RS) for this number and put it in. I don't think the current text in any way denies that there were more than 103 killed it is just that we need a reliable source for numbers and the link you have given does not really add up to give 116 in this massacre. Polargeo (talk) 14:56, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality:
This paragraph:

Less than an hour after the attack British troops appeared in Ahmići along with the whole BBC journalist crew. Without any research and looking straight to camera British commander Bryan Watters repeatedly accused Croats for the massacre. An ex British premiere Margaret Thatcher, known to sympathize Croats, canceled her meeting with Croatian war government planned 6 days after this event. Ahmići tragedy was often used in BBC program as an example of Croat - muslim "war" with the agenda of guilt equity between all three sides of the conflict. Bošnjačka televizija broadcasted an interview of a witness that said: "I heard the attackers using English language."

American intelligence magazine EIR (Executive intelligence review) has published an article, 22. September 1995. about the role of MI6 in Ahmići tragedy. The article was written by Umberto Pascali.

...

appears to be attacking the neutrality of British Peakekeeping troops who discovered the massacre.

It also raises the opinion of EIR, hardly a neutral resource for Wikipedia.

I'd like to see that section edited, removed, and the EIR rubbish taken out — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.219.149.231 (talk) 22:34, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't "attack the neutrality" but involvement of British Peacekeeping troops. And the BBC. If any there is no FACTS disputable the section should be brought back to the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.136.162.107 (talk) 21:49, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah, point taken, let me elaborate and be a bit more accurate.

I believe that this paragraph suggests, or appears to imply, WITH NO BASIS IN FACT, no references, no historical accuracy, that there were outside agencies involved in the Ahmici Massacre - perhaps that British Troops working for the UNITED NATIONS may have been involved in massacring civilians including women and children///<or that there waqs something underhand in the discovery of the massacre by British troops of the 1st Battalion The Cheshire Regiment, under the command of Lt. Col. Bob Stewart (now Colonel Ret.)

Furthermore I'd say that this article is the only place on the internet taht such rubbish can be found.

Moreover, it reads like an opinion piece, with no references, and therefore does reduce the neutrality of the article

This would, for sure help the neutrality of Wikipedia: naming sources at your will "rubbish". Fascinating: whole article doesn't mention BBC, or Cheshire Regiment even having in mind "the discovery" of the event. Whole article doesn't mention how pointless would it be for Croatians to attack Bosnian people strategically, logically, historically. There is one side that took a good advantage, now publishing these articles. What documents there are about Lt. Col. Bob Stewart (and his previous employment with Karadžić) should definitely brought to the front of this page. For the sake of neutrality. (Mind me for not calling your sources rubbish at my will, for the sake of neutrality.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.39.10 (talk) 15:19, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

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