Talk:Aid climbing/GA1

GA Review
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Nominator: 23:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: LunaEatsTuna (talk · contribs) 04:25, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oo this looks interesting! Will review within this month. Template:LunaEatsTunaSig (talk), posted at 04:25, 23 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Well that was a lie – sorry. I am going to start the review by tonight though, now that I have the free time. ❧ LunaEatsTuna  (talk), writing articles since 2017 – posted at 20:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Ga review:
 * This article switches between metre and meter, make sure to use one for consistency.
 * ✅. It is written in British English, but some of the American quotes have "meter", but I have changed them for consistency.


 * There is no need for the bullet points in the § Equipment or § Techniques sections; they can easily be converted into paragraphs without hindering readability. They do make a lot of sense in § Grading though.
 * What you say makes sense, although I did it to try and make these 'technical' sections easier to navigate (i.e. you knew what each paragraph meant as it was a bullet with a label)? However, if you think it does not help, I can change it to paragraphs. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:16, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, I think it just looks a bit non-standard. I am pretty sure we generally reserve bullet point lists only for short listings of items, i.e. WP:BULLETLIST says "they are not appropriate for large paragraphs". I really like your reasoning though, but I reckon it will not be too technically challenging for most who make it that far, given your writing style is really helpful and makes things easy to understand for non-climbing experts. :) ❧ LunaEatsTuna  (talk), proudly editing since 2018 (and just editing since 2017) – posted at 23:01, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi @LunaEatsTuna, I have only just seen this now! I wonder given that each of these bullet points have a 'heading' (e.g. 'Fixed placement equipment'), should they be sub-sections?  Would that be more natural? Sorry for being a pain about this, but I have other articles that use this format for the 'equipment' and 'techniques' sections (e.g. Big wall climbing). thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 08:55, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Why not try it and see how it looks? :3 ❧ LunaEatsTuna  (talk), proudly editing since 2018 (and just editing since 2017) – posted at 22:31, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @LunaEatsTuna: I have made the change to those two sections (converting bullets into sub-sections). What do you think? Are they too small to be sub-sections? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:27, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I do really like that! Great idea on your part. Also, I have left (what should be) my final comments below. ❧ LunaEatsTuna  (talk), proudly editing since 2018 (and just editing since 2017) – posted at 16:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Great, I think it looks much better than bulleting - thanks for that :). Have made those changes below? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:10, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Perfect! I am now ready to pass this fantastic article for GA status. Nice work and congrats! Good luck on your future articles :3 ❧ LunaEatsTuna  (talk), proudly editing since 2018 (and just editing since 2017) – posted at 11:51, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Description
 * "Traditional aid climbing" no need for the quotation marks.


 * Same for "Clean aid climbing" (and its many instances).
 * ✅, except if left 'clean aid climbing' on its first mention to note that it is a term?


 * "which the second removed as they followed after the lead climber" – confusing sentence.
 * ✅ changed to ";these are then removed by the second climber as they make their own ascent."


 * I would rephrase ""Clean aid climbing" avoids" to something like "This method avoids" to avoid repetition with the previous sentence.
 * ✅ changed to "This method therefore avoids"


 * "and has been advocated by some as" – would just do "and has been advocated as" since mentioning some seems unnecessary.


 * Recommend changing "world-famous" to "renown" or similar to sound less sensationalised.


 * History
 * "axles of the Ford cars" > "axles of Ford cars". Also:
 * Wikilink Ford to Ford Motor Company.
 * ✅ both changes


 * "in big wall aid climbing, with the" – the comma is not necessary here. But:
 * I would add a comma to "in one section, he drilled" but this is more optional.
 * ✅ both changes


 * "Reinhold Messner wrote a now famous" > "Reinhold Messner wrote a now-famous"

Low-key I have no concerns with this section.
 * Equipment


 * Techniques
 * "into which they will attach aiders and ascend" > "into which they attach aiders and ascend" to simplify a bit.


 * "easier with the passage of time (as later teams could use the fixed placements of earlier teams)" > recommend "easier over time as later teams could use the fixed placements of earlier teams." :)
 * ✅ used "can" instead of "could"


 * Is there a reason ""tenuous"" (lol) has quotation marks?
 * ✅ agreed :)


 * The section explaining the process of "Using aiders" will look better split into two (or perhaps more) sentences instead of one long one.
 * ✅ agreed, I have re-worded this so hopefully it is clearer?


 * IMO the sentence beginning with "Unlike free climbers, aid climbers "weight" all their placements" is not really necessary. Also:
 * The rest of the section is a bit confusing for me (maybe I am just being dumb here, but compared to the rest of the fantastic article I find this one harder to grasp). Could you simplify/change around the wording a bit?
 * ✅ agreed for both, and I have re-worded this so hopefully it is more straightforward to read


 * "This is in contrast to traditional climbing where the second (or belayer)" > remove "or belayer" since it is already mentioned earlier.
 * ✅ used "the second climber"?
 * That looks great! ❧ LunaEatsTuna  (talk), proudly editing since 2018 (and just editing since 2017) – posted at 22:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Grading
 * "Aid grades can change materially over time due to improvements in aid equipment but also due to the impact of" > "Aid grades can change materially over time due to improvements in aid equipment and the impact of".


 * Chicken bolts?
 * ✅, added an explanation in brackets.


 * "McNamara says" – would do "McNamara argues".


 * I would change instances of "vs." to "as opposed to" as I have not seen a Wikipedia article use "vs." before.


 * "an intermediate "+" grade" > "an intermediate plus (+) grade" to describe it a bit better.


 * "specific tricky or strenuous" – remove 'tricky'; I think 'strenuous' does enough justice to the sentence.


 * "American Alpine Club (republished in 2013)" > "American Alpine Club" because the publication date for it was already mentioned above.

Good.
 * Milestones


 * In film
 * The line for The Inner Wall needs citing.