Talk:Air-blast injection

why not read and learn a little? https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=00432260&PageNum=5&IDKey=A25BE347AE33&HomeUrl=http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526d=PALL%2526p=1%2526u=%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r=1%2526f=G%2526l=50%2526s1=0432,260.PN.%2526OS=PN/0432,260%2526RS=PN/0432,260


 * That has nothing to do with the article's topic. Best regards, --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 14:05, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, Sass writes the following: „Der Brayton-Motor wurde von seinem Erfinder 1872 in den USA zum Patent angemeldet; 1876 erschein er auf dem Markt, 1878 wurde er auf einer Ausstellung in Paris gezeigt. Zum erstenmal in der Geschichte des Verbrennungsmotorenbaues wird hier Preßluft zum Einspritzen und Zerstäuben des flüssigen Brennstoffes benutzt“. (The Brayton engine was patented, by his inventor, in the United States in 1872; in 1876 it was introduced to the market, and in 1878 it was presented at a Paris fair. It was the first time in the history of the internal combustion engine that compressed air was used for injecting and atomising the liquid fuel). Sass also notes that Gustave Richard describes the engine in his 1892 book "Les nouveaux moteurs à gaz et à pétrole: Les moteurs à pétrole. Applications. Annexe", and Sass includes a drawing which he briefly describes. The drawing is titled with "Der Brayton-Motor (1872)", and it defintely includes air-blast injection („n Druckluftleitung zum Einlaßventil“ – compressed air tube for feeding the inlet valve) (Sass: Geschichte des Deutschen Verbrennungsmotorenbaues von 1860 bis 1918, Springer, Berlin Heidelberg 1962, p. 413).
 * Richard indeed describes Brayton's engine in his 1892 book as follows: "Les types de machine à pétrole essayés par M. Brayton sont très nombreux: les deux principaux sont ceux de 1872 et de 1881" (p. 669). So Richard thinks that the engines that Brayton made in 1881 and in 1872 are the two most important ones. Richard makes an interesting statement: "La machine de 1872 ressemble beaucoup au moteur à gaz et vapeur de M. Simon" – so he thinks that Brayton copied Simon's design. Richard describes Simon's engine on page 266, and it is a four-stroke engine. So possibly, Brayton's 1872 engine is also a four-stroke unit. The drawing of the 1872 engine on page 670 is the same that Sass includes in his 1962 book on page 413. Richard describes the 1872 Brayton engine to be an engine with a "pompe d'injection du pétrole, dont les dimensions sont très faibles" (a small petroleum injection pump with small dimensions) and "a pompe de 200 x 150" (pumping cylinder with a 200 mm bore and 150 mm stroke). So it is safe to assume that Sass's description is correct and that the 1872 Brayton engine indeed has air-blast injection. Best regards, --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 15:34, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * If the book you have states that any Brayton engine before 1890 used air blast injection it is incorrect. Please read this link about the 1890 air blast engine. http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/imagedetail.aspx?id=6367Imotorhead64 (talk) 07:40, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Brayton engines prior to 1890 did not use air blast injection. If you read the link I provided and you think that this is the case please read it again carefully and try to understand how these 4 different engines worked. Imotorhead64 (talk) 07:29, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Brayton 1890 engine
The author refuses to learn abour Brayton's injection systems. Imotorhead64 (talk) 14:03, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Argumenta ad homines are nonsense. I don't refuse to learn about Brayton's injection systems, I reproduce what Sass writes in his 1962 book. As far as I'm concerned, Sass's 1962 book is an excellent source. I'm not the editor who promotes conspiracy theories and doesn't cite any secondary sources. --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 16:46, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Please learn about the 4 different types of engines Brayton produced.
I have made changes to correct misinformation but the keep getting erased. Someone is very misinformed about Brayton. Brayton made 4 different engines. The first 1872 engine used a separate piston compressor to compress air and fuel together. The fuel/air mixture would burn as it entered the cylinder. This engine had problems because sometimes explosions would occur. Brayton solved the problem in 1874 by adding a fuel pump and injecting fuel to the burner as the air entered the expansion cylinder. This solved the explosion problem. The engine speed was regulated by the quantity of air fuel was adjusted and set but the quantity did not change according to load. In 1887 Brayton made a 4 stroke engine that now compressed and burned fuel in the same cylinder. This engine used a high pressure liquid fuel injection system with a variable quantity pump. The engine speed was regulated solely by the quantity of fuel injected same as any Diesel engine. Ignition was provided by a platinum glow plug. In 1890 Brayton produced his final engine who’s was also a 4 stroke compressing and firing in the same cylinder. This engine used an air blast injection system. Please read about Brayton’s engines. https://oldmachinepress.com/2016/12/05/brayton-ready-motor-hydrocarbon-engine/amp/ Imotorhead64 (talk) 19:57, 4 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The vintage machinery source is a user generated source and thus unreliable. William Pearce (2016) writes about Brayton's 1872 engine: "Brayton’s 1872 patent engine was a two-stroke that had two pistons mounted to a common connecting rod. The smaller of the two pistons acted as an air pump, compressing the air to around 65 psi (4.5 bar). A gaseous fuel, such as illuminating gas or carbureted hydrogen, was mixed with the air entering the compression cylinder. Alternatively, an oil fuel, such as naphtha, could be vaporized and added to the air entering the compression cylinder. The air/fuel mixture was then compressed, passed through a valve, and stored in a reservoir. An engine-driven camshaft opened a valve that allowed the pressurized air/fuel mixture to flow from the reservoir and into the large combustion cylinder. Before entering the cylinder, the air/fuel mixture passed through layers of wire gauze where a small pilot flame constantly burned." So, obviously, the engine "injected" its combusting air-fuel mixture into the cylinder with a blast of compressed air. Yes, this system is technically different from what has since the 1890s been considered air-blast injection, however, Friedrich Sass acknowledges Brayton's 1872 design as the first air-blast injection system. He writes the following about the 1872 engine: "Zum erstenmal in der Geschichte des Verbrennungsmotorenbaues wird hier Preßluft zum Einspritzen und Zerstäuben des flüssigen Brennstoffs benutzt." (For the first time in the history of the internal combustion engine, compressed air is used for injecting and vaporising the liquid fuel). It is possible that Diesel copied Brayton's 1890 system (it is also described in Richard's 1892 book). Nonetheless, the 1872 engine is considered by Sass to be the first engine that had a compressed air system for vaporising and injecting the (liquid) fuel. --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 11:26, 5 January 2022 (UTC)