Talk:Air Methods

Location
Air Methods' address is 7301 South Peoria Street. Enter this address at the US Postal Service's ZIP code finder at http://zip4.usps.com/zip4/zcl_0_results.jsp, along with the city "Centennial" and the state "CO", and the following postally-standardized address is returned:

7301 S PEORIA ST

CENTENNIAL CO 80112-4133

The official map of the City of Englewood can be downloaded at the city's website at http://www.englewoodgov.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=651. Nowhere on this map will you find a Peoria Street.

The official map of the City of Centennial can be downloaded at the city's website at http://www.centennialcolorado.com/DocumentView.asp?DID=366 The City of Englewood lies northwest of Centennial. Peoria Street is in the central portion of Centennial, some eight miles east of Englewood.

So, according to the Denver Business Journal, Air Methods is "in Englewood". But DBJ is only reflecting the company's choice to use that city in its mailing address. It may be a reference, but how good of a reference is it if it is simply regurgitating information, information that is misleading?

Is the Denver Business Journal a more reliable reference than the database of the United States Postal Service? Is the Denver Business Journal a more reliable reference than maps provided on official city websites?

My edit presents both facts that these references support: the fact that Air Methods is located (much) nearer to Centennial than it is to Englewood, and that "Englewood" is commonly indicated as the company's location.

- Watkinsian 06:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Interesting Original Research, but according to the Arapahoe County Tax Assessor's website, 7301 S. PEORIA ST (parcel 2075-25-3-00-952) is listed as "Situs City: ENGLEWOOD". Further searches of the database reveals that Peoria street changes from Centennial to Englewood at around the 6900 block to 7901. Even the airport authority lists itself as being in Englewood as does the FAA form 5010 for the airport. And the zip+4 comes up 7301 S PEORIA ST, ENGLEWOOD CO 80112-4133 (works both ways). Looking at the County GIS maps, the airport area is not shown in the boundaries of Centennial, but in an apparently unincorporated area with the parcels saying "Englewood" when you click them. --Dual Freq (talk) 23:24, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course there's also the FAA database information, N-Number registry database lists a number of Air Methods helicopters all registered in Englewood. Aviation Circular AC 135-13N FAA certificated Air Carriers Directory also lists Air Methods as Englewood. FAA form 5010 for the airport and the Airport Authority list Englewood as well. --Dual Freq (talk) 23:31, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

If you're calling my internet references "original research", referencing the Arapahoe County Tax Assessor's website, the airport authority website, and the FAA database is also original research. These sources are simply regurgitating the place name methodology used by the U.S. Postal Service, which often does not coincide with actual city boundaries. To add another source to the ones I provided above, the official maps produced by the Colorado Department of Transportation clearly show that Air Methods' location is several miles east of the light purple area that is Englewood: Therefore, listing the company's location as Englewood is misleading and incorrect. Watkinsian (talk) 15:27, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Taking a map of Englewood and saying, see no Peoria Street is OR. What I have provided is links to official documents, like the Tax website, corporate documents submitted to the SEC and official documents submitted to the FAA. (Aviation is their primary line of business) Who better to know the address of a property than the county that the property is in. Clearly the area is in some type of unincorporated area, probably because the county owns the airport and business park. For whatever reason, the county has determined that the area around the airport is "Englewood". The location is not in Centennial, if that's what you're trying to suggest. --Dual Freq (talk) 21:10, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Maps produced by municipal, county and state agencies are also official documents. You don't mention it, so you obviously do not understand the dynamics of this situation. Every address in the U.S. is assigned a ZIP code and a place name by the U.S. Postal Service, based on the USPS' own methodologies to suit its own purposes. In doing so, the USPS often does not adhere to actual city boundaries. Years ago, before much of the southern tier of the Denver Metropolitan Area was developed, the postal service assigned the ZIP codes in that area to the Post Office in Englewood, even though the city covered a fraction of that area. In the meantime, several cities - some much larger than Englewood - have grown into the area or incorporated. The USPS has largely ignored this, continuing to assign "Englewood" to addresses in the area, while, however, allowing the use of the names of the actual cities that now comprise the area. As a result, "Englewood" is the default place name used in addresses in the area, although "Centennial" is perfectly acceptable. The tax website and SEC and FAA documents are simply regurgitating this default place name of "Englewood". Who better to know the address of a property than the county? You're talking about a mailing address, which with the explanation provided above I hope you now understand does not definitively tell what city a property actually is in. The county has not "determined" the area around the airport is "Englewood", it is simply using the default postal designation for the area. The location may be in an unincorporated area, but it is literally across the street from Centennial - again, to state the location as Englewood, which lies some eight miles west, is misleading and incorrect. Watkinsian (talk) 23:03, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Categorization
I propose that the category "Companies based in Englewood" be replaced with "Companies based in Colorado". I have previously made this edit, but it was quickly reverted by another editor. In a good faith effort to avoid inciting another edit war, I'll simply add "Companies based in Colorado" at this time. Hopefully this action will not be accused of being vandalism or of degrading the article, as my previous edits were. I'm also hopeful that, since it is fairly self-evident that the company is located in Colorado, that this action won't be accused of being original research.

That being said, please consider the following reasons for the category replacement:

1. "Companies based in Englewood" is a "redlined" category. This category has not even been created.

2. There are at least six unique place names in the United States alone with the name "Englewood". This category is ambiguous.

3. It seems to me that a category "Companies based in XXX" should be reserved for countries, states or major cities. Englewood, Colorado has an employment population of only 23,500. By comparison, nearby Denver has nearly 537,000 jobs - over twenty times that number. Englewood is a rather obscure location to be having its own category for companies based there.

4. This is related to item 3. It seems to me that a category is only useful when there are at least a few dozen articles that can actually be categorized with it. Again, Englewood is hardly a major employment center and only a few articles can be categorized as "Companies based in Englewood". It simply isn't very meaningful or useful to readers.

Finally, regarding this specific article:

5. Aviation Technology Group uses Englewood, Colorado in its mailing address. However, the company is actually not located in the city; in fact, one must leave the city limits of Englewood and travel several miles through another city (Centennial, Colorado) in order to reach the company's location. Therefore, the category "Companies based in Englewood" is misleading. To correct this, a more suitable name for the category would be "Companies using Englewood in their mailing address". This category, however, would be even more obscure - and overly pedantic.

Faced with the choice of a redlined, ambiguous, obscure, useless and misleading category ("Companies based in Englewood") on the one hand, and a pedantic one on the other ("Companies using Englewood in their mailing address"), it seems the best choice would be to use neither.

"Companies based in Colorado" is an established category, is unmistakeable, is meaningful to readers and has several dozen applicable articles. It should be fully adequate to provide a geographical categorization for this article.

-- Watkinsian (talk) 21:11, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Concur...I really don't care about the cat, that's not the issue. The issue with me is that the articles reflect the official location. For air carriers, this issue has deeper ramifications than you might realize.  AK Radecki Speaketh  21:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Crashes?
In 2006 it was noted that the company had 19 crashes and 21 deaths, based on NTSB data. This year alone there have been at least two fatal accidents (10 fatalities) where Air Methods aircraft were involved.Air Methods stock down after crash American Airlines has it's own page for crashes. It may not be necessary to list each one, but certainly some mention would be appropriate here. Comments? --Dual Freq (talk) 02:13, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. Dhaluza (talk) 16:31, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

An image on this page may be deleted
This is an automated message regarding an image used on this page. The image File:Air Methods Logo.gif, found on Air Methods, has been nominated for deletion because it does not meet Wikipedia image policy. Please see the image description page for more details. If this message was sent in error (that is, the image is not up for deletion, or was left on the wrong talk page), please contact this bot's operator. STBotI (talk) 16:14, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Location
I was asked to keep and eye on and review the constant changes on this article, and taking into consideration the comments made I have changed the location in to a simpler version which make it clear the that the legal company address is different to the companies physical location. The article mentions Centennial Airport and anybody that interested can follow the link to find out more about the location. Please dont change this statement without further discussion on this page. Thank you. MilborneOne (talk) 17:31, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Is it okay if I add something to clarify the location of the company on Air Methods similar to Talk:ENSCO, Inc.? WhisperToMe (talk) 08:08, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * We already have a note on the reference "Air Methods headquarters are located on the north side of Centennial Airport in Englewood" but I appreciate from the endless discussion at Centennial Airport some users have an issue with Englewood as it is really a postal address rather than a physical location. That said what words would you like to use WhisperToMe? MilborneOne (talk) 09:16, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * - I would say that it's physically within the Dove Valley census-designated place and that it has an Englewood, Colorado postal address (like what was done with ENSCO, Inc.). I've obtained an actual map of the boundaries of the city of Englewood and I don't see an airport within those boundaries. WhisperToMe (talk) 09:21, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I dont have a problem with that. MilborneOne (talk) 09:27, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Awesome :) WhisperToMe (talk) 09:34, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Protection
OK I have protected the page from editing as a continuation of the edit war at Centennial Airport, users need to come to a consensus rather than continually edit war. Its now at a stage of disruptive editing and you can be blocked from being disruptive so please take care, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 21:46, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I’m not sure how my latest edits can be construed as a volley in a continuing edit war. I did not revert or contradict the previous edit – I was trying to improve upon it. It’s a bit awkward to formulate the company’s headquarters as “on the property of” the airport when “at” the airport is just fine. Similarly, “physically” is understood when we are talking about geographical locations. Finally, the formulation of “Englewood, Colorado postal address” is problematic because there are other city names that can be used in addresses in this same ZIP code (i.e., it could also be characterized as a “Centennial, Colorado postal address”). It’s clearer to simply say that “Englewood” is a postal designation that is used in the company’s mailing address. Surely each instance of copyediting such as this does not need to be discussed on the talk page. Watkinsian (talk) 03:17, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

stock
What happened to the stock/ticker? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.250.234.122 (talk) 17:16, 29 April 2017 (UTC)