Talk:Air brake (aeronautics)

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:41, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

What are Air Brakes?
This article's broadly okay - it explains how air brakes work (it'd be nice if more of the jargon was explained/linked), but doesn't actually explain what they ARE. It talks about them being deployed, but not what actually happens when they're deployed (the impresion from the photos is that it's just something to reduce the aerodynamicness of the plane, but I really know nothing about the topic and can't make these edits myself). Thanks 81.107.209.155 (talk) 00:22, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Image
Is this a suitable image to upload? It was taken from on board an Airbus A320, preparing to come into land. Dalavich 14:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Criticism
This article is poorly written so far. Incorrect nomenclature definitions, for starters.

Spoilers (panels on top of the wing) are called "speed brakes," not "air brakes." This statement is incorrect: "In aeronautics air brakes are a type of flight control used on aircraft to reduce speed during landing."

Most pure jet airliners have spoilers on top of the wings. And, they are usually differentiated as "ground spoilers and flight spoilers." When a jet airliner turns, it does so with the use of both ailerons and flight spoilers. While the rudder helps to keep the turn coordinated, it is not primarily for the purpose of turning. The spoilers on the right wing will rise, when the pilot turns to the right, and on the left wing, when he turns to the left. How much they rise, is a function of airspeed and also how rapidly the yoke or stick is moved by the pilot. Thus, the purpose of flight spoilers, when turning, is not to apply brakes, but to increase the rate of roll capability of the aircraft.

However, those same flight spoilers can be used as speed brakes in flight, just for the purpose of slowing down more rapidly. The pilot does that by extending the spoiler handle. How far he moves that handle control, determines how high the flight spoilers rise, on both of the wings at the same time. Doing that creates drag, which helps the pilot to slow more rapidly. This is usually done at higher altitudes, but almost never done during the final phase of the approach to landing, when the flaps and gear are deployed.

When the plane lands, the gear strut switch activates all the spoilers (both ground and flight spoilers), if the pilot has armed the spoiler lever to deploy upon touchdown. The handle moves all the way back and that causes all of the spoilers on top of the wings, to deploy to their maximum limit. Doing that kills lift and puts the weight of the plane firmly on the landing gear and that makes the wheel brakes far more effective.

I have never heard the term "air brakes" applied to ground or flight spoilers on top of the wings. As to the speed brakes on the tail or belly of a plane, I think the proper nomenclature is "speed brakes," not "air brakes." Air brakes is the normal nomenclature for the braking systems of trucks and buses on the highways.

See these links:

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/spoil.html

http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/Wing33.htm

EditorASC (talk) 06:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't spoilers also provide proverse yaw, reducing the need for rudder deflection? -- RoySmith (talk) 22:45, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Spoilers and Air Brakes are different things, even if on some aircraft, the same piece of metal serves both purposes. I think we should not merge the two articles. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:29, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree. While a spoiler may serve as an airbrake, airbrakes alone usually don't cancel lift, which is why they are not called spoilers. 78.149.234.157 (talk) 19:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Air Brakes and spoilers are different - and should remain so on Wikipedia for greater clarity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.66.160.58 (talk) 16:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Name
Whouldn't "aerodynamic brake" or similar be a better name for this article instead of "air brake (aircraft)"? Bugatti Veyron is already mentioned in the article and some other vehicles also have these kind of brakes. Cars, high speed trains etc.--83.255.190.246 (talk) 10:04, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Another merge proposal
There is a section at Air brake (road vehicle) (#Exposed Physical Structure) that deals with aerodynamic air brakes (not pneumatically-actuated mechanical brakes, like the main portion of that article). Regardless of whether or not it's on a plane or car, any flap that acts to produce drag in order to slow a vehicle down is the same type of device. It might be worth noting at the other article that there are aerodynamic air brakes on road cars, maybe with a "main article" link here, but it seems inefficient to group the devices by what vehicle they happen to be attached to, not by what they actually are. I would rename this article "Air brake (aerodynamic)" as well. Thoughts? --Fru1tbat (talk) 21:10, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree that the section doesn't belong in Air brake (road vehicle), but it looks like these "air brakes" on a few racing cars are implemented by a tilting spoiler, so I would suggest that this very minor trivial usage belongs in Spoiler (automotive) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎ Chetvorno (talk • contribs) 21:17, 9 August 2012

Parachute
I notice some air-brake look like parachutes, whats the difference? the article should cover that. Google mentioned Drogue parachutes as well Back ache (talk) 12:44, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Plagiarism?
The 3 non-photo images in this article are copied from published sources but described as 'own work'. Should they be removed?Pieter1963 (talk) 15:36, 30 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Those are probably copyright violations. All 3 images were added to Commons by the same user about 3 years ago, and all 3 had tags added that question the copyright status of the images from 2 months later. The best option is probably to nominate the files for deletion on Commons, and let them sort it out. If you have cites available of the sources, include that in the nominations. If you don't feel comfortable nominating them yourself, post the citations here, and I'll tag the images for deletion for you. BilCat (talk) 00:53, 1 February 2021 (UTC)


 * If you could nominate these two. I forget where I saw the other one. Thank you. Pieter1963 (talk) 00:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

File:Hawker Typhoon Double-Split Brake Flaps.png http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1949/naca-tn-1939.pdf File:Fusalage Air Speed Brakes.png  https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19930082614

45 degree landing attitude instead of air brakes
From the "History' section: pilots would land with the nose of the plane tilted upwards at a 45-degree angle for short landings Does anyone know which pilots landed which type of aircraft like this? Was this a regular practice or stunt flying/barnstormers? Thanks.Pieter1963 (talk) 00:33, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

The wording of the paragraph in which this statement appears infers, because of its lack of qualifying statements, that the 45 degree technique was standard practice for short strips and it drove the development of air brakes. I can't access the source to clarify anything and leaving it as-is is misleading.Pieter1963 (talk) 01:13, 2 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for erasing the paragraph. It was technically unsound, and definitely unencyclopaedic. What remains appears almost as bad and I think much of it should ultimately be removed.
 * The sentence you have questioned "In the 1930s, pilots would land with the nose of the plane tilted upwards at a 45-degree angle for short landings in order to effect rapid deceleration" is ghastly. If it comes from a published source we would have to say it is not a reliable published source - perhaps that was the quality of writing on the subject in 1933. It is true that an aircraft with an unflapped wing will approach to land with a greater fuselage angle than an aircraft with a flapped wing; but to describe this as "tilted upwards at a 45-degree angle" is nothing more than a wild guess that yielded a seriously wrong answer.
 * In several places there was the suggestion that the role of air brakes and a nose-high landing approach was to cause deceleration - a rapid reduction in airspeed. This is mostly incorrect and shows we are dealing with amateurish writing. It is true that in very-high-speed jet aircraft, such as combat jet aircraft, rapid deceleration may be required so air brakes are incorporated into the design, but for the lower speed aircraft implied in this section, air brakes are used primarily for landing. Their role in landing is to increase drag and allow a steeper approach angle to be flown at the nominated approach speed. A secondary benefit is to reduce the fuselage angle and give the pilot a better view over the nose of the aircraft. The landing approach is mostly flown at a constant airspeed; any deceleration is achieved gradually; rapid deceleration has no place in the landing approach of most aircraft.
 * The remainder of the History section looks little better than the paragraph you removed. Please have a close look at it and remove anything that shouldn't be there. I will do the same. Dolphin ( t ) 11:42, 2 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I've had a go at all but the first paragraph which also still needs improving. "Scientific principles" is best deleted I think rather than trying to infer the writers desired message. I'll look at his Kundu reference to see if there's anything appropriate for this article. By all means change what I have done if I'm off track.Pieter1963 (talk) 20:47, 2 February 2021 (UTC)