Talk:Air raid shelter

untitled
Have apologised to David Levinson, he was not involved int the changes of 19Feb. I have a feeling the pages may be corrupted, well, it's either that or I have gone barmy, but certain things about don't seem my style. I am asking a developer to take a look at it, the article that is, not me. ;-) --Dieter Simon 23:16, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Umlauts in hoch as in hochbunker
The German adjective hoch in the positive form never has an umlaut. It is only when it changes to the comparative h&ouml;her or the superlative h&ouml;chst that it receives the umlaut. Dieter Simon 00:58, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Who designed the Anderson Shelter?
Many seemingly reputable websites and Encarta say the shelter was named after its designer, Dr David A. Anderson


 * Although Dr David Anderson, one of the engineers from the Institute of Civil Engineers, was involved in the evaluation of the design it was named after Sir John Anderson, the Lord Privy Seal at the time, who initiated the development of the shelter. Dieter Simon 22:21, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * The problem I find is that almost all of the sources citing him as the person after whom the shelter is named, call him the designer of the shelter. In fact, it was William Patterson and Oscar Karl Kerrison who were the designers. David A was really one of the civil engineering evaluation team, not a very likely eponym of the product. Dieter Simon
 * The BBC website and the Museum of London website both quote Sir John Anderson. Dieter Simon

John Baker (designer of the Morrison shelter) in his book Enterprise versus Bureaucracy is very clear that the sectional shelter popularly know as the Anderson Shelter is named after Sir John Anderson, not David Anderson. He identifies David Anderson as 'doyen of British civil engineers, senior partner in the civil engineering consulting firm Mott, Hay and Anderson', and as one of the authors of Command Paper 5932 'Report on Air Raid Shelter Policy' December 1938.Alc59 (talk) 16:40, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Interesting picture
Here's an interesting picture of a "bomb shelter" (as captioned) I found while browsing through the Library of Congress OWI archive:. It's essentially a ditch. Thought it might be good for this article, but there doesn't seem to be anything about ditches used for shelters in here. Maybe someone more familiar with the topic can use it better.  howcheng  {chat} 20:39, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Good point. The 'ditch' as you call it, is better known as a 'slit trench' and were very common.  See:  --Aspro 17:45, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Merger of "Fallout shelter" with "Air raid shelter"
If any merger is to be done at all it should be "fallout shelter" into "air raid shelter", and not the other way round. Fallout shelters are later a development of shelter after the creation of the atomic bomb, etc. My opinion is that they are totally different concepts, and therefore should not be merged at all. Fallout shelters are much more complicated in their conception, technology and the circumstances under which they were built. By all means, link the two articles but basically they are not really the same thing at all.

As regards to "Blast shelter", again all the original air raid shelters were created under entirely different circumstances, they came in assembly kits, or were built according to the sudden dire needs of an actual ongoing war, were the development of pre-existing structures such as cellars, basements, underground stations, etc. rather than according to pre-conceived ideas of a war that might or might not happen such as a nuclear war. It's almost like merging "cavalry" with "tanks". Dieter Simon 01:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Do not merge. These are different classes of shelter and are better off as separate articles. All the different shelters are only a click away anyway.--Aspro 17:45, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Do not merge. They are different types of shelters, and both articles stand on their own. AndyBQ (talk) 22:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Do not merge. Spot87 (talk) 23:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Do not Merge. Even though they are somewhat alike they are two different types of shelters, as by the difference in names suggests. Fallout shelters protect from nuclear fallout as air-raid shelters protect from aerial attacks. If some distinctions that are in the article which there are major similarities then see WP:POV Letter 7/Caleb (talk) 23:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Problem with this article
I seem to have lost the last sections of this article "air-raid shelter" while trying to correctly enter the sources of the various sections. I am trying to get some help to fix this Dieter Simon (talk) 01:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I fixed it, it was a missing > on a closing ref tag. DuncanHill (talk) 22:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Protection notice
Air-raid shelter article protected [edit=autoconfirmed] (expires 22:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)) [move=autoconfirmed] (expires 22:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)) (Excessive vandalism)> Dieter Simon (talk) 22:57, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

London Underground
I have made substantial amendments to this section, based on current researches for a new book. Some background can be read in Angus Calder's "The People's War", which makes it clear that the shelter policy was extremely contentious. A review of the contemporary Hansard, War Cabinet Conclusions, and newspaper cuttings throughout the period showed that the situation was extremely tense. War Cabinet minutes record Winston Churchill wanting to take "strong action" against campaigners who were demonstrating for better protection.

I do not have a current user account, and having had earlier work savaged, I am not inclined to open up one, so these additions will have to remain anonymous. The do, however, represent the best (short) account or what was going on then. If the account remains, substantially unchanged, I may add to it in the future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.71.146 (talk) 13:23, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * This seems rather a shame. In my experience it is much more likely to have an edit vandalised or removed if added by anonymous contributors. As long as you include the necessary source citations you should be OK. Surely you can create a nick for the sake of your valuable edits. Many thanks for them. Dieter Simon (talk) 01:53, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Expansion Needed
There needs to be more information on other shelters worldwide instead of just those in Britain. There is a photo of one in Israel but additions of other shelters constructed like in the United States, Germany, Japan, France, etc are needed. While fallout shelters are not "directly" known as air-raid shelters there should be some differentiation at the beginning of the article denoting Air-raid, blast and fallout shelters and links to those articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.23.130.121 (talk) 03:01, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Very large UK WWII section
At the moment this article is very unbalanced and dominated by the UK section. I suggest that the UK sections are moved out into a new UK WWII specific article and the contents are summarised in this article. If this were done then other sections could be expanded until such time as they need to be moved out to specific articles and the and summarised here.

Anyone have a good idea for a name for a UK article (it would probably need a mention of UK World War I and cold war shelters, so how about Air-raid shelter (United Kingdom)? -- PBS (talk) 02:23, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080403035111/http://www.worldwar2exraf.co.uk:80/Online%20Museum/Museum%20Docs/airraidshelterspage7.htm to http://www.worldwar2exraf.co.uk/Online%20Museum/Museum%20Docs/airraidshelterspage7.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20101228044832/http://www.lgfl.net/lgfl/accounts/holnet/upload/learningzone/londonatwar/shelter/index.html to http://www.lgfl.net/lgfl/accounts/holnet/upload/learningzone/londonatwar/shelter/index.html

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function of the Winkeltürme

 * The theory behind the Winkeltürme was that the curved walls would deflect any bomb hitting the tower, directing it down towards the base.

Seems to me the advantage of convex walls is to direct a falling bomb away from the base. (One needn't direct a bomb downward.) —Tamfang (talk) 02:02, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Anderson shelter
Would anyone object to me spinning out Anderson shelter as a separate article? It's currently a redirect here, which I think is odd given how well known they are in the UK. BubbleEngineer (talk) 11:52, 21 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Article in today’s Guardian newspaper, new uses for abandoned shelters Article --palmiped &#124; Talk  14:10, 21 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Spinout- good idea. I have seen the Gu article. I would suggest there are a few leads there.--ClemRutter (talk) 14:23, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Turns out this was a bad idea. Apologies, I'll wait for more consensus next time BubbleEngineer (talk) 19:16, 27 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I agree in Anderson Shelter as a separate article. But I suggest developing and expanding it in draftspace first so that it isn't simply a copy of what can be found here already. Polyamorph (talk) 12:38, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

,, , – is this split proposal dead for the time being? I note BubbleEngineer appears to have stopped editing, so it seems he/she won't be taking on this project anytime soon. If this proposal is currently not active, does anyone object to me removing the "split proposal" tag from the article and closing this discussion? Richard3120 (talk) 15:18, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * No objection --palmiped &#124; Talk  15:34, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * No objection- In the circumstances. It appears that by over aggressive criticism we have lost a potentially good editor. I do wish that editor retention was higher up some peoples tick lists. ClemRutter (talk) 16:49, 1 February 2019 (UTC)