Talk:Airsoft/Archive 4

BB's or Pellets
In the article everywhere it says pellet it should say bb. Am I the only one that thinks this. No airsofter calls them pellets, at least not that I know of. Besides a pellet is completly differnt shaped than a bb. There are also pellet guns already.

(Sheetz 19:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC))


 * Hi Sheetz, I have pointed out the guidelines for Talk pages repeatedly, please start news topics at the bottom of the page. As for BB versus pellet, there is an article dedicated to the topic and it is called Airsoft pellets. If you read the introduction it explains the misnomer. A BB is in fact a metal BB from the BB gun. True the term BB is used, albeit incorrectly, so it is included in the article. --Deon Steyn 10:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The correct term is Airsoft pellets. Everyone should stop using BB on all airsoft articles (not at fields!) to keep away any information that can for any reason associate BB guns to airsoft. There is lots of negative talking for terms like BB's and BB Guns, this is one thing we should avoid... As stated before BB’s are associated with metal BB’s for BB guns and those have nothing to do with airsoft. Law around the world will never refer the term BBs and since other sports like paintball use pellets term why not airsoft. (anon)


 * I specifically copied this article to Word and carefully replaced all instanced where "pellet" should have been used. However, either it was reverted (doubtful, but I was pretty sure I was logged in when I did it, but I can't find where I did the edit in the history) or instances of it have been added since, because a good half-dozen more instances of incorrect usage of "BB" showed up in the article, much more possible because the article has a large interest base and is rapidly updated. Just because something's used colloquially doesn't mean it's correct. Kevin 06:07, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It looks like all references of "pellet" has been changed (again) to "BB". Seeing as how this is a common change, why don't we add a section to the article about the "Misnomer of Using 'BB'". See Bb_gun as to how 'BB' is reference to the size of a ball bearing, of which an airsoft pellet is larger (Air Rifle = 4.49mm, BB = 4.57mm, Airsoft Pellet = 6mm) and IS NOT size 'BB' according to the standard gauge charts.
 * I would also like to emphasize that using the term "pellet" reduces the confusion when airsoft guns are compared to BB Guns (as stated before by many others).
 * UTF-NeonDevil (talk) 00:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Weapons & Equipment section


I personaly think the section should go as follows.

2. Weapons & Equipment

2.1weapons - here we should move airsoft guns section

2.2 BB’s - here we should move airsoft projectiles section

2.3 Uniforms - here we should move clothing

2.4 Tactical Gear - and hear we should move tactical gear

Once moved we should delete the previous sections explaining this.

(Sheetz 08:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC))


 * Not sure about a change to the order. Many readers might be more interested airsoft guns and equipment, but Wikipedia is supposed to be encyclopaedic and the article is about the sport itself? Therefore the equipment section should probably take a backstage even though it might be of more interest to many. Also many of the equipment sub-section only contain links to other full articles. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? --Deon Steyn 05:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Airsoft WikiProject Proposal
There is a proposal for an Airsoft WikiProject. If you would like to join, add your name to the list. The Pelican 16:03, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The Airsoft WikiProject is now online; feel free to join. The Pelican 01:19, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Change "MilSim Only" Aspect of Article

 * It seems like this page mainly focuses on MilSim and dedicated players. I think there should be more mention of the 10 year olds who buy cheap guns from Wal-Mart and Sports Authority, especially how their misuse of guns give opponents of airsoft evidence of why they think it should banned. 65.197.192.130 23:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, the aspect of little kids ruining the sport is a major issue that should be addressed. 67.49.28.78 05:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Backyard airsoft will never go away and it is certainly not harming the ranks of hardcore players. let them have their fun and you have yours. I play backyard airsoft and I buy only guns with 300 fps or higher, if i am paying 100 or more. backyard airsoft is not ruining airsoft, and quiet honestly outnumbers the number of "real" airsofters by an alarming ratio. go to any school. all the guys there have an airsoft gun.


 * It is harming the ranks of 'hardcore' players. Recent UK legislation is the direct result of children running around with airsoft weaponry and breaching the laws of this country, in various cases resulting in police using lethal force in response to 'backyard airsofting' turned sour. The resulting legislation has basically killed the sport as it prohibits imports and has made participation in the sport a much more expensive proposition due to licensing standards. Even as an avid 'MilSimmer' I still haven't managed to get sufficiently licensed to participate since this legislation came about. -Rushyo (talk) 17:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Airsoft is a sport/hobby that was created by milsim players and collectors and they are the authourity on how airsoft is played. Therefore any game called airsoft therefore must be milsim or it is misnamed. If it is played in a non milsim or speedball type way, it is usually called paintsoft or backyard airsoft because of its similarity's to paintball and the fact that is is played in the backyard, which is not recommended.. Therefore a wikipedia article titled airsoft should be milsim oriented. If the article was called backyard airsoft the article would reflect a non-milsim type of game.


 * Such an extravagant claim would require a very strong source. An accepted dictionary definition of Airsoft would be an activity performed with an airsoft weapon. That includes backyard airsoft. -Rushyo (talk) 17:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Well any game that uses a chess board and pieces isn't chess is it? I think the large, connected, and established international player base is the source for my claim. I have never seen a forum for backyard airsoft, and the only publicity for backyard airsoft is from negative news report about kids playing in streets. If airsoft was the USA, then milsim players would be the citizens, any backyard airsofters would be non citizens. (I hope this doesn't offend anybody, I'm not trying to say anything bad about illegals immigrants). What I mean by this statement is that backyard airsofters have no say or vote in the internet for the most part, and the internet is basically were airsoft is governed just as non citizens have no say in the ay the USA is governed. I don't have a problem with non-milsim airsoft, as long as it is played safely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.177.32.69 (talk) 02:37, 14 July 2008 (UTC) !0percentcharlie 7/14/08

Merge with Airsplat

 * The article for "Airsplat" (which I personally have never heard of) seems like it should be merged into the Airsoft article; it seems to be little more than people playing airsoft, occasionally using 6mm paintballs, which are bad for your gun.


 * I can understand where you are coming from for combingin the 2 articles. But isn't milsim and airsplat 2 opposite ways of playing. I would alsot tend to say that MilSim shoudl be combined with airsoft. Because MilSim is almost a regular or standard playing method. Where as, AirSplat (paintsoft) seems to be a sub-culture or different movement of playing airsoft.Ganninia 07:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)]


 * I would usually describe airsoft as "playing a game with airsoft guns." MilSim is an aspect of airsoft, usually played by more dedicated players. Most people who buy cheap guns tend to play backyard games. I have never heard the terms "paintsoft" or "airsplat" (except the online store Airsplat.com) outside of Wikipedia. Even if they a source is found for them, the most mention they should get on Wikipedia is a section of this page. 65.197.192.130 23:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Airsoft is a game based upon trust in your team and opponents. There is no difference between the multiple styles of airsoft except for the basis of trust. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.69.139.145 (talk) 01:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC).


 * I'm not really sure about all that "trust is the most important aspect" crap, but there is no need for a separate page about airsplat, especially since its unsourced, repeats a lot of stuff (safety, etc.), and promotes bad airsoft gun care (using paintballs in an airsoft gun). 65.197.192.130 11:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Good points, actually someone added in the paintball usage at a later point in time. I went back and removed that part becuase I didn't know it.  But I'm surprised to see some of you have not heard of airsplat or paintsoft.  Do a search on google for paintsoft. AirSplat doesn't come up with as much right now becuase of the website airsplat. Until someone starts a website called paintsoft, those results are still obtainable. You'll there is standard nomenclature within the players. Milsim and paintsoft are actualy opposite ends of the playing spectrum. One is highly strategic simulating military tactics while one is a shoot them up, metal to the pedal playing method (similar to paint ball competitions, hence the "paint"). Ganninia 10:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)]
 * Of course, those types of games are played in airsoft. However, in my six years of playing, I have *never* heard those game types being referred to as "airsplat" or "paintsoft". To be honest, all I think is needed here is a revision of airsoft game types to include the more "balls to the walls" types so indicated in the airsplat article. Other than that, the airsplat article is not cited, promotes bad gun care and repeats what's said on THIS article (as has been said). The best thing for it is deletion, imo. -Madbrood 12:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The merger with airsplat should not happen. Airsplat is an online retailer of airsoft replicas.  Also, 6mm paint-bb's are very harmful to most airsoft guns, and should never be used under any circumstances.  I have never heard of anything besides www.airsplat.com referred to as "airsplat"
 * I agree that "airsplat" is a pointless article, and the its concept can be harmful to airsoft guns. I think it should be replace with a redirect to airsoft, especially since nothing is sourced and a large amount of the material is on both pages. 72.196.213.82 02:33, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Airsplat is now a redirect to arisoft. 65.197.192.130 14:58, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge with Airsplat, my opinion

I do not think that this should happen. As some one who actually plays airsoft and has bought products from Airsplat.com, this is not logical.

Airsplat.com is simply a website in which people can buy airsoft guns and accessories. Having said this, I do think that references to Airslpat.com should be on the "Airsoft" page, but by no means should the two be merged.Drogdar 21:49, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

THEY ARE REFERING TO THE PRACTICE OF USING 6MM PAINTBALLS IN AN AIRSOFT GUN NOT THE STORE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.203.171 (talk) 05:00, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Major clean up
I have done a major overhaul of the article (as well as archiving old talk page topics) that has grown almost completely out of hand since I last had a look at it. The biggest problem is large sections duplicating articles that have been split out, most notably Airsoft guns, Airsoft pellets and Airsoft game type variations (might need more clean up). Please see Content forking and Article size. These sections could in fact be a link to the main article only which is something we should consider as it would discourage it from growing out of control again. Other than that we need more references and possibly to clean up the existing one (see Footnotes and Citation templates). --Deon Steyn 12:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Vehicles and uniforms
Please refrain from restoring this section, it was removed with an appropriate explanation, which is that we can't add everything to the article that vaguely relates to the sport. If some team somewhere in the world moves a tree around to recreate some specific battle scene, that would not become an "airsoft tree". There is no such thing as an airsoft vehicle and the use of vehicles in some extreme or rare instances is completely unrelated to the article.

The section for "clothing" is also being repeatedly changed to "uniform". Clothing is a more inclusive term, because not everyone wears clothing that looks like military uniforms. A uniform also implies that you are actually a member of an organization represented by that uniform. If someone not in the US Army wears and ACU outfit, then it is simple a piece of clothing and no longer a uniform (which comes with a set of responsibilities etc.)! --Deon Steyn 10:56, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Pain?
It Doesnt hurt that bad, it is just the fear of getting shot for the fist time then it is so much fun! The article states that airsoft hurts worse than paintball, regularly causes bleeding. That just is'nt true I know, I've been shot several times from airsoft. we should try to fix this. 68.89.165.158 17:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)iron maiden
 * I think it depends on the gun, meaning its FPS and pellet size. Obviously a 150 FPS gun firing .12 gram pellets isn't going to cause lasting pain even if you put it right up to the skin. But take something like this, an expensive gun with a FPS of 320 fps w/ .2g, and maybe that could cause lasting pain at close range. Though I mostly agree, and in my experience, the pain usually goes away in under a minute, and the welt goes away in a few days. Kevin 06:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. If you see anywhere with an unreferenced claim that airsoft pellets can kill people, delete it. Unless they've got definative proof that someone died because of airsoft pellets, that claim's absurd, no matter how powerful the gun.
 * Exactly, I was deleting stuff and adding citations68.89.165.158 00:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)ironmaiden


 * I've found only one reference to an airsoft-related death. It was in Japan, the victim was a woman in her 70's, and apparently, the airsoft gun was highly modified (and was well over Japan's legal power limit of (0.89?) joules. Unfortunately, it's not a 'citeable' source. Jonathon Barton 23:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

i agree, airsoft couldnt kill but it could cause severe pain depending on the modification of the gun. FPS in the Philippines is not that strict, we do have rifles exceeding 750 to 800... no joke. And it has been known to go thru BDU's... just imagine the effect on the flesh... --obakpogi —Preceding unsigned comment added by Obakpogi (talk • contribs) 04:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I have a 400 fps pistol, and it drew blood at ten feet or so when I shot my friend. We consider that to be godly. -TDK

Well on pain most people are wearing bdus or camo... So if you do get hit your going to hear a pop or a slight pain. Now im talking about 300 maybe 330 fps guns. When you certainly get up to 390 or 450 it will definatly feel a little pain depending on how you clothes are.

Non-Sport Uses
Airsoft has been making inroads into replacing the less-accurate paintball and the more accurate, but prohibitively expensive, Simunition technologies for training among security contractors, law enforcement agencies, and even the military (in unofficial training). We use airsoft for some tactics and movement training due to the realism and accuracy of the weapons in weight and style (we can attach our illuminators, designators, red-dot scopes, etc. from our service M-4s to the airsoft versions, allowing us to use the same accessories we use in the field), and because they cost a lot less and require less safety precautions than simunitions. It might be worth researching who all uses it and how much growth it has seen and adding some mention of this into the article.--Breandán 01:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone who reads Japanese may want to follow up on the information I've read recently that the Japanese Self Defense Forces purchased some 600 Tokyo Marui replicas specifically for troop training. Jonathon Barton 23:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Airsoft is not a sport

Kinetic energy 11.8 joules
The formula .5 * mass * velocity2 ( see Kinetic_energy and Conversion_of_units ) yields a value for a paint ball of of: .5 × .00284 × ( 300 × .3048 ) × ( 300 × .3048 ) = .00142 × 91.44 × 91.44 = 11.873 joules compared to an airsoft pellet: .5 × .0002 × 91.44 × 91.44 = .836 joules or a sniper pellet: .5 × .0003 × ( 550 × .3048 ) × ( 550 × .3048 ) = 4.215 joules jmcw 11:36, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

What's with all the cite tags?
I'd have to say about 85% of these "unsourced statments" are true. Cheers, Je tL ov e r  (talk) 18:26, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't matter if it's true - if there's no reference, then it can't be proved to be true or false. It's going to be hard to cite a reference for lots of airsoft stuff though because there are few places where it is really written down - excepting internet forums. Maybe airsoft skimish-site websites will list some of the safety stuff, but otherwise it's mostly word of mouth and mental acknowledgement for airsoft. 82.27.234.112 (talk) 14:26, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

One thing that irks me is the original research? tag on the example about the orange tip being painted on a real gun. I wish I could find a source to put there, because I'm pretty sure that that has happened. 69.207.224.202 (talk) 03:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Backyard Airsoft
Backyard airsoft is not that dangerous. If you are careful about it, there is almost no chance of the police being called. There are almost no set rules for every game. I have no idea where they are getting all of these rules and regulations. There are very, VERY few regulated "professional" airsoft games. Backyard is the norm for airsoft. And we consider anyone who even wears a heavy jacket to be a pussy, let alone wearing full military suits and stuff. There is no way you would feel anything through that. We don't count the shots unless you can feel it. -TDK

Backyard airsoft will never go away and it is certainly not harming the ranks of hardcore players. let them have their fun and you have yours. I play backyard airsoft and I buy only guns with 300 fps or higher, if i am paying 100 or more. backyard airsoft is not ruining airsoft, and quiet honestly outnumbers the number of "real" airsofters by an alarming ratio. go to any school. all the guys there have an airsoft gun.

The section on "Backyard Airsoft" should be changed to remove any type of encouragement for this type of game. "Backyard" games are extremely dangerous to both the players involved, neighbors, and the sport itself. Whenever we hear about police mistaking airsoft guns for real guns it almost always involves these backyard games. Playing in a public area where most of these games take place is a danger to neighbors who could be hit by a stray BB, and someone who sees people with what look like real guns will almost certainly call the police. Not to mention that these types of games are illegal in some states. Incidents stemming from backyard games are the main fuel for lawmakers to ban airsoft in their area.Cmsr. Jackdaw 23:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I have put my mention of backyard airsoft dangers, now with citations of incidents involving police. If someone can give a good argument as to why we shouldn't mention the dangers of backyard games in the section on it, I will remove it. Until then, however, I will continue to replace it whenever it's removed.Cmsr. Jackdaw 23:57, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

You guys have never actually done an airsoft game for the heck of it before in your life have you? I am always doing backyard airsoft at my place and at friends. Also on equipment, you do not need to buy $120 worth of equipment. All I did was buy a $10 dollar sunglasses and my gun and had an airsoft war with some af my friends. "Backyard Airsoft" as you call it, is not that dangerous. I have always done it, and always will. It is not that dangerous. You guys are probably afraid of getting a welt or bruise or even a mark on your body or face. You do not need to be such wimps or make people think they should be. Rembrant12 16:22, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * My first experience of airsoft was at the Elektrowerkz arena in London. During that skirmish I was involved in an assault up one of the stairwells.  There were five guys with fully-upgraded AEGs (just below the UK legal limit) standing just around a 180 degree corner from my position, and I had to go around that corner armed with a pistol.  I was absolutely delighted when I got two of them before they reacted- and believe me, they ALL reacted.  Five guys with 9.6V upgraded gearboxes at point blank range say I'm anything but a wimp.  I still think you're wrong.  "Backyard airsoft" typically has no health and safety provision- for example, do you know what ballistic protection your sunglasses offer?  Do they have an ANSI standard mark on them?  What would you do if a BB got behind them- do you have a qualified first aider onsite when you play your games?  Do you have public liability insurance so that if you accidentally shoot someone not involved in the game you can afford to pay them any damages they might sue for, or for any medical procedures they might require?  Do people in the area know you're using airsoft guns?  Do the Police?


 * Honestly, one of the most important considerations in my mind is the anger to the sport. Getting caught by the Police having an unauthorised skirmish and arrested on firearms offences (because- in the UK at least- brandishing replica firearms in public is actually completely illegal) can only ever generate bad publicity for the sport in an environment where the PC brigade is already getting heavily down on guns and anything that looks like them.  Of course the press doesn't cover the many thousands of airsoft skirmishes which go off without incident the world over every week, but the one backyard skirmish they do clamp down on can do nigh-irreparable damage to the sport's image and may lead to its being legislated against more and more in the future.


 * Seriously, if you're careful or if you do it indoors I can understand that you might see no problem and have no problem with it, but personally I would consider the risk, to potential bystanders and to the sport itself, to be too great. Especially when we're talking about the discussion of the phenomenon on a major website such as Wikipedia.  Painting backyard airsoft in an encouraging light on here has the potential to convince all kinds of people to try it- Including the kind of people who are anything but careful or sensible.  For that reason I'd be a little wary of mentioning it at all, but if it is to be mentioned for Goodness' sake don't encourage people to do it!  People airsofting without due care and attention has the potential to kill the sport in the UK completely, and I would imagine the same is true in a large portion of the US.  -Captain Hat 89.213.71.84 11:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Also I might add that it looks like that this is for only people 18 up but I know of people who have been younger, approximetley 13-14 and have had more fun than a bunch of army wannabes who think they are actually fighting and "enemy army" Rembrant12 16:27, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I understand that viewpoint, and personally I've always had much more of an aggressive attitude towards tactics in airsoft than most people who try to be all military and tactical. At my local site we get regular players as young as 14, though under-18s are obliged to wear full face protection (over 18s can choose anything down to the minimum standard for eye protection) and should be accompanied to the site by an adult.  I don't think there's actually much bias against younger players in airsoft, though the law in the UK has recently gone that way in that under-18s cannot buy airsoft guns any more.  I don't see there being much bias in the article either, to be honest, though a more direct mention could be made of younger players. -Captain Hat 89.213.71.84 11:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Given personal experiences with what can happen when a large number of immature and irresponsible individuals -- regardless of age -- decide to have an impromptu "war," I too would highly recommend information the potential dangers of these devices, the need to use appropriate safety equipment, and the potential legal consequences in various, significant areas such as the UK and parts of the US with relevant legislation or previously recorded incidents. I respect that some people enjoy being fired upon with mock weapons even though I do not. As such, there have been times when in the dormitories of my university or at a friend's house I have been caught in the crossfire, both unwilling and unprepared -- with regards to safety -- to participate, and I have come very close to eye injuries -- one time ending with a severe, suborbital bruise on my cheek and a rather nasty welt on the bridge of my nose! Had I been a more litigious individual, I most likely could have succeeded in court. This would have been yet another strike against the public perception of this hobby. In that light, people should be encouraged to play responsibly in places that provide the appropriate level of safety and support needed to insure that legislators will never find enough reason to ban the practice altogether. Smartyhall (talk) 01:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

What the newer or less hardcore players fail to realize is that we are fine with inexpensive gun and gear, and a non military simulation mindset. We are not OK with inappropriate safety measures. When we talk about dangers in airsoft, its not from BB's, its from bullets coming out of a cops real gun when he feels threatened. This can and has happened to kids playing in there backyards COUNTLESS times. The other danger is from poor eye protection. It would also be nice for the newer players posting here to use a respectful manner of ,making there point. If you have a valid point to make, make it, but don't resort to name calling (that means you rembrant12). We are only pussies if you count real bullets. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 10percentcharlie (talk • contribs) 02:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * "And we consider anyone who even wears a heavy jacket to be a pussy, let alone wearing full military suits and stuff. There is no way you would feel anything through that. We don't count the shots unless you can feel it." Your 'backyard' house rules are not representative of anything except how you play and have no place in a Wikipedia article. Besides, you most assuredly do feel a 200fps shot through a tac vest. I've been hit by tens of thousands.


 * "You guys have never actually done an airsoft game for the heck of it before in your life have you?" Read WP:Civility please.


 * "Also on equipment, you do not need to buy $120 worth of equipment. All I did was buy a $10 dollar sunglasses and my gun and had an airsoft war with some af my friends. "Backyard Airsoft" as you call it, is not that dangerous. I have always done it, and always will. It is not that dangerous." The issue is specifically when the police get involved or when uninterested third-parties are attacked. It is not backyard airsofting itself but people partaking in backyard airsofting who are irresponsible with a replica firearm. This just plain never happens in a controlled MilSim setting.


 * "It is harming the ranks of 'hardcore' players. Recent UK legislation is the direct result of children running around with airsoft weaponry and breaching the laws of this country, in various cases resulting in police using lethal force in response to 'backyard airsofting' turned sour. The resulting legislation has basically killed the sport as it prohibits imports and has made participation in the sport a much more expensive proposition due to licensing standards. Even as an avid 'MilSimmer' I still haven't managed to get sufficiently licensed to participate since this legislation came about. -Myself above"


 * "You guys are probably afraid of getting a welt or bruise or even a mark on your body or face. You do not need to be such wimps or make people think they should be." Read WP:Civility please. Besides, it's nothing to do with such a thing. The fact is though a 400FPS airsoft rifle fired at close range is more than capable of shattering through inadequate eye-protection and causing permanent eye damage as a result (if the BB doesn't, the shards of the glasses sure will). Given that, it seems silly not to provision for that with equipment you can trust. When an extra $20 is the difference between a potential injury and no potential for injury it seems a sure thing. -Rushyo (talk) 18:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Shape of projectiles
Article says: "small, perfectly cylindrical balls" but all the pictures on Google Images show spheres.

above by me. Boris B (talk) 04:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

the are the same thing. no one except you cares about the different wording between ball and sphere. they are perfectly exactly and absolutely the same thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.203.171 (talk) 05:06, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

He was referring to the word 'cylindrical', lol. Pay more attention next time :-p! 86.144.69.203 (talk) 12:11, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

"Cylindrical ball"? That doesn't even make sense.ZappyGun (talk) 15:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

"Real Steel"
"All "real steel" firearms are banned at any airsoft battlefield to prevent harmful accidents or confusion between real and simulated weapons."

This is false information. No airsoft field that I've ever been to disallows real steel airsoft guns. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.0.34.210 (talk) 12:40, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

The term "real steel" is used in the airsoft community to refer to any real weapons/firearms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.129.23.248 (talk) 23:41, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Distance?
Most airsoft guns won't even go 100 feet. They say there are restrictions something like no guns over 450 fps at a range of 100 yards or less? No airsoft gun will ever got 100 yards. Ever. I have a 400 fps pistol (And I played airsoft literally today, like all day, in close quarters of ten feet or less, inside a house. The best gun we had was about 450 fps, and I have nothing more than some welts. And I got shot a lot.) and it can shoot across my yard, maybe sixty feet or so, but it falls at about sixty feet. -TDK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.49.185 (talk) 04:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That's because your gun sucks. Now, get lost and stop runing the airsoft article. 96.226.7.12 (talk) 11:44, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * You must use a WalMart or sporting good store guns. My weapon, a D-boy shoots that range. Also, assuming from where you play, (your back yard), you don't seem too knowledgeable about the subject or informed as to the capabilites of them. Velcrochicken17 (talk) 19:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * A well made (usually costs upwards of $500) airsoft sniper rifle that shoots 450 fps can make accurate shots of up to 300 feet. I've seen it done. Also, don't flame the guy who started this topic, he is clearly just starting so don't give him a hard time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 10percentcharlie (talk • contribs) 16:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Expensive airsoft rifles have longer muzzles, 'hop-ups' and other factors that increase their worth in a skirmish. My 280FPS TM G3/SG1 is more than capable of shooting beyond the range of 500FPS airsoft rifles because of the way it has been built and how I have set it up. -Rushyo (talk) 18:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The more fps you have the more range. If you do have a longer barrel that may add some some feet maybe one. And if with hop up that may add more distance. But like with an utg mk96 its 450 fps to 490 and easily can hit a target at 130 ft and more if you get lucky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KamikazeePanda (talk • contribs) 16:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No, you are completely incorrect. FPS may have some factor on range but "The more fps you have the more range." is a very ignorant comment. Tokyo Marui guns come stock at about 280-300 FPS and most can easily engage players at 200+ feet. Hopup, the diameter of your inner barrel, length of your barrel, BB weight, and overall craftsmanship are what make an airsoft gun have range. FPS only makes the BB go to the target faster, it has very, very negligable effects on range. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.164.155.238 (talk) 01:27, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * TM stock replicas have an accurate range of 130 feet with a maximum up to 180, depending on the particular type of gun (some hop-up chambers are inherently better than others, a longer barrel is generally better). Replicas with about 450 fps on 0.20 can reach an accurate range of 200 feet, IF there are no air leaks. About 265 feet is the maximum effective range for a plastic 6mm BB, regardless of gun brand or FPS. Anything more than that is physically impossible as due to the large sufrace to weight ratio of a plastic BB it's momentum is lost quickly due to air resistance. The maximum range of BBs without any sort of accuracy is roughly 330 feet - at that range the wind blows the BBs wildly off course, the hop-up must be modified so that it gives the BBs a very strong spin, and the BBs themselves are fired at an angle.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.19.222.236 (talk) 18:22, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Claiming that muzzle velocity has a minimal effect on range is absurd. Of course range depends on horizontal speed; this is very basic physics. Clearly backspin will also have a significant effect, but the length and shape of the barrel probably will not, since those will be a major factor only in muzzle speed; they cannot guide the BB after it has left the gun. BB weight is clearly another factor since heavier BBs will have reduced acceleration due to air resistance, but they will also launch more slowly from the gun and benefit less from the buoyant force. Overall, most of the factors you described primarily determine accuracy, or else they determine speed which in turn determines range. Backspin, as created by Hopup, is the significant exception.


 * However, I would like to add that the BB weight may be the greatest contributing factor to the difference in performance of your guns. Assuming that both guns actually attain the reported speed (which is unlikely to say the least), the one with longer range may have heavier BBs at the given speed. If it launched lighter BBs, it would actually have a much higher speed which would be comparable to what one would expect given the range. Eebster the Great (talk) 20:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Low-FPS, High-FPS and Excessive-FPS
"Airsoft guns are classified accordingly as Low-FPS for CQB games, High-FPS for normal field games, and Excessive-FPS for semi-automatic or single-shot sniper guns firing at 600 fps or higher."

Probably WP:OR. Going to remove this as part of my clean-up tomorrow. Any complaints? -Rushyo (talk) 13:03, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Safety - not just for wimps
Saftey is important, how would you like it if you got shot in your eye and was blind in one eye. All you need is a pair of saftey googles that cost $5. I think the statement "airsoft guns are safe" should be re-thought. The above discussion of "protective gear is for pussies" is also worrying. This news report concerns "psycho" rather than "backyard" or "organised" airsoft, but is instructive. X-ray (or CT scan?) shows pellet behind eyeball, by optic nerve ! "3mm pellet" could be radius, not diameter ? Pellet may be stuck in boy's eye for life - Chronicle and Echo, Northampton UK --195.137.93.171 (talk) 01:39, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * "ball bearing gun"... not airsoft. Using radius of a pellet is basically unheard of. Your point is sound though. I hear of people protecting themselves with sunglasses and can't help but imagine what having shards of glass in your eye feels like. -Rushyo (talk) 01:42, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Bleh shards in the eye doesn't sound fun! I usually have some of the people i take fire at the goggles or whatever eye protection with my airsoft gun to make sure it wont shatter.(echo1 m4 spc 380-390fps)

product placement
someone needs to clean up this article to remove the product placement. seriously. hornplayer2 (talk) 06:54, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * What product placement specifically? ...and you could: WP:Be bold! Rushyo   Talk  22:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * opening paragraph "Some of the notable manufacturers of airsoft guns include Tokyo Marui, Classic Army, and ICS." i would, but honestly, i dont have the time. hornplayer2 (talk) 18:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Why is that product placement? They really are the manufacturers that the majority of airsofters use. Those three, along with STAR, describe the only brands I personally purchase from. Admittedly it needs citation but in itself the information is worthy of inclusion. - Rushyo  Talk  17:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

u need to were glasses —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.189.162 (talk) 01:22, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Nobody said that these are the best companies, just the largest and most established. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.189.4.14 (talk) 22:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The more serious problem is the blatent advert added in at the bottom of the Legal section... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.101.87.64 (talk) 03:48, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

"This article or section appears to contradict itself. Please help fix this problem"
I was going to try and fix this but am unsure what the contradiction problem here is? Who put that there? Tuxraider reloaded (talk) 21:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Honestly I don't think anyone has a clue. It's probably not pertinent anymore. Rushyo   Talk  22:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I've removed it. If the person who put it there thinks it should go back, lets talk about it here. Tuxraider reloaded (talk) 00:07, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Tone and style tags

 * I've removed these as the page has had numerous edits since, adding lots of refs. The 'tone' of the page is not in any significant way different to any other page on wikip.

If the person who added them dis-agrees please discuss it here, don't just revert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuxraider reloaded (talk • contribs) 00:16, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

section 6.4, what is a vernulles effect? would that be in reference to the Bernoulli effect? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.216.225.13 (talk) 14:17, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Legal issues Section - same old mistake

 * Time ago the article was getting very long due to country legal issues, so the 'Legal issues' article was created and specific country information moved. Now seams that we are going the same wrong way, we already have info at 'Legal issues' section about U.S., UK, Australia, Austria, Belgium and so on. Why doing the same mistake again? Are we waiting for remaining countries to get a long list and then cut? One more thing, isn't US and UK part of the 'Worldwide Regulations'?

(anon) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.202.227 (talk) 15:33, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Littering/Clean up?
What about airsoft bb's being left everywhere outside? Are they biodegradable? Almost all airsoft BB's are Biodegradable stay aways from bright red airsoft BB's for they are not good for the environment but 6mm 12 and 25 .g are biodegradable but the healthiest for the environment are white BB's

Some arent, most are. At the sites I've played at (outdoors) they just seem to get trod into the ground so you don't see much in the way of 'litter' really. In indoor (CQB) games they have people who clean up afterwards, (sweepers) Tuxraider reloaded (talk) 17:27, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

There are several kinds for sale at my local sporting goods store which are biodegradable, but they are slightly more expensive and don't come in anything under .12g —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.180.250.184 (talk) 02:22, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Corrupt companies are selling plastic to BB's to corrupt people. The plastic BB's are going to be around forever. I would have hated to grow up playing in another generation's trash. That is exactly what everyone shoting those plastic BB's and the companies selling them are leaving for future generations. Plastic is poisonous too, it never breaks down, it only seperates into smaller molecules which are ingested by wildlife. People all over the world are getting cancer from these poisons and this will continue to get worse. Google: toxic garbage island for a real eye opener about how bad the plastic problem is. These pretend soldiers should show respect for their countries and only use BIODEGRADABLE BB's! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.19.223 (talk) 17:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Um, exactly what edit are you suggesting? I should remind you that this is not a forum for general discussion. Eebster the Great (talk) 20:34, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Airsoft's environmental friendliness needs to be addressed in the article. Non-biodegradable plastic should not be littered all over the place, no matter how small it is or how well it gets pushed into the ground. See Great Pacific Garbage Patch. Pulseczar (talk) 14:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Lame
Most airsoft BB's are biodegradable try to stay away from bright red BB's they are never biodegradable... The best BB's to buy for the environment are white —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soniic93 (talk • contribs) 03:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Just looking at the photos it looks like a bunch of grown men who are enacting their military fantasies because they never had the balls to join the real military. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.108.247.18 (talk) 05:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that was just completely ignorant of you to say, as I am a Marine myself, and I love to Airsoft. Maybe, you're the Wannabe here.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.2.243.109 (talk) 00:16, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for adding to the discussion. Your comments make you look very mature ;)


 * It's amusing talk page vandalism, also untrue. Many airsofters I've played with are former members of the armed forces. Indeed, the best games are often run by them. Tuxraider reloaded (talk) 18:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

That's Cool. You're a cool guy. Full us with more wisdom.86.46.208.159 (talk) 19:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Heck, i've even heard of some military units using airsoft as their method of familiarizing their personnel with real world senarios. I've even heard of Systema's airsoft guns being used for military training. No sources though.Joker4eva (talk) 13:48, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Systema weapons are for military/police training. Some airsofters acquire them (at great cost) for use in airsoft skirmishes, since they have various advantages over typical airsoft weapons. -Rushyo

Holy crap you sound real mature my friends dad and mine were both retired marines please dont make comments like that1 I mean if you really want to go up to a marine or army guy and say that False, modern police/military training programs use Simunition. Check it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.216.33.21 (talk) 03:56, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Correction re: gun muzzles
I would have to agree.

Correction regarding American laws under section heading "Orange-tipped airsoft gun muzzles”

The citation (13) reads;

1150.1	Applicability. This part applies to toy, look-alike, and imitation firearms (“devices”) having the appearance, shape, and/or configuration of a firearm and produced or manufactured and entered into commerce on or after May 5, 1989, including devices modeled [sic] on real firearms manufactured, designed, and produced since 1898. This part does not [italics added] apply to:

(a) Non-firing collector replica antique firearms, which look authentic and may be a scale model but are not intended as toys modelled [sic]on real firearms designed, manufactured, and produced prior to 1898;

(b) Traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of compressed air, compressed gas or mechanical spring action, or any combination thereof...

Sub-section (b) clearly excludes Airsoft guns from the orange tip/muzzle plug requirement. The Florida incident you cite appears to have involved a toy gun made to look like a real weapon which would fall under this legislation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Helmigr (talk • contribs) 19:15, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup: TO DO
After a review of this article, a list of things to be done. --Lendorien (talk) 21:23, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * History section needs expansion.
 * Airsoft equipment perhaps could use its own article?
 * Legal issues section needs to be merged with Legal issues in airsoft as much of it duplicates thing on that page. The information presented on this page should be a basic summery that covers the main points without going into too many specifics. Right now, there's too much information and listing laws for every country is better placed on the article created for it. As an added note, the Legal issues in airsoft page is currently a bunch of bullet points, so when they're merged, effort should be made to remove the bullet points.
 * Orange tipped gun section reads a bit like OR and lacks an NPOV. Sure criminals could paint and orange tip on the gun, but without a source to back this up (which I doubt exists), this information does not belong here.
 * Article needs sourcing. There are a whole lot of unverified claims here. Certainly there are books on this sport that can be used as references.


 * At more than one point this article has been well-sourced and nicely written. Unfortunately there's a high idiot to sensible editor ratio on this particular article. Personally I think we should revert back to one of the earlier variations - Rushyo  Talk  11:34, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Wording
Not that it's a huge problem, but I think that the wording could be re-worded a little bit. For example, in the introduction to airsoft, the beggining, it cites "Airsoft is more commonly played by kids now", which in itself is not incorrect a majority of people playing airsoft are youth, but "kids" is a rather reletive term and I think that it could be changed. That was just an example. So if nobody has a problem with it I'm going to go and change that right now. Peace. -jyby —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jyby1 (talk • contribs) 12:09, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
I've tried to clean this article up. I've taken out a lot of trivial detail in places, and will probably do more. Please consider how valuable information really is before putting it back in. If some aspect needs covered in a lot of detail, maybe it should have its own article. --hippo43 (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

To help clean this up a bit im going to switch the orders of the Mil Sim and Skirmish to help clarify some things. i'm also going to add external links for the tactical gear to give better examples.--Jdmpassion69 (talk) 06:46, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The edit of 07:54, 28 August 2012‎ 72.55.98.43 (anonymous) seems to have accidentally removed a hunk of the History section (including breaking tags). Undid.  Jackrepenning (talk) 23:57, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

CYMA should not represent Airsoft weaponry
CYMA is well known as the worst airsoft brand, and having the first picture of an airsoft gun as a CYMA is pretty dubious. Could we possibly get a picture of a different gun, preferably a proper AEG? novalord2 16:53, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Since when is Cyma truly considered the worst brand? They are known for making acceptable AKs, M14s, and an AEP G18 for the price. They shouldn't represent airsoft, but they aren't as bad as you say. Halofanatic333 (talk) 14:57, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

CYMA makes LPEGs, but they also make very good clone MPEGs. Their ak 028 are known for being very durable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.173.104 (talk) 04:34, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

If anything, Cybergun shouldn't represent Airsoft Halofanatic333 (talk) 15:17, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

More recent CYMA models aren't MPEGs, they are AEGs. A CYMA is a worthy and good budget gun. Although obviously not the top-notch, they are good for people jumping into airsoft. If there is a brand to "represent" airsoft, it ought to be a Japanese company. It's airsoft's birthplace after all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.97.140.40 (talk) 18:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC) Wow I have a CYMA CM046 full metal real wood AK and it is great and who cares that it's a pictures of a cyma it is not even an issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:5B0:22FF:1EF0:0:0:0:3D (talk) 16:34, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Lots of opinion..
There are lots of things in this article such as "making the game extremely fun.", and "is a lot of fun.", those are both an opinion, also being unspecific. :/ No offense to whoever did some of these things but some parts are looking a little like it was written by a 3rd grader who like airsoft and also one section isn't cited. Someone please clean this up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Backslash166

Informal writing and poor grammar
I've made numerous improvements to the grammar and diction of this article, but there are still many problems with this article's writing. Chunks of this article were obviously written by people who haven't finished high school.

Please help with this, this article has been gradually getting better over the past few months :) Novalord2 10:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Legal Issues, slight inaccuracy
"Also, the use or possession of any kind of replica weapon, loaded or otherwise in a public place is an offense under UK law and can carry heavy penalties."

This needs a bit of clarification. Possession of an Airsoft Replica in a public space, as long as it is completely hidden from view and unloaded is legal in the UK. It only becomes an offence if the weapon is visible. It's not a major issue, but, it could be confusing for some. RWJP (talk) 10:44, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Milsim vs Open Skirmish
I think it may be a good idea to split the Methods of Play section to better explain open skirmishes. These are, in many cases, more common and frequent than Milsim events and tend to be where many plyers begin airsofting and learn, before moving onto more milsim style games. As such, i think it deserves more than just a handful of passing mentions in comparison to Milsim.

I'm working on a draft idea at the moment, but would like some help and suggestions.

(Just to re-iterate, i'm talking about open skirmishes at official organised airsoft sites, not backyard airsoft, which may deserve a separate mention of it's own.)

RWJP (talk) 10:41, 28 September 2009 (UTC)