Talk:Akatsuki (Naruto)/Archive 15

Why can't we just put Tobi and Madara's articles together?
In my opinion, this is just stupid. y cant we just merge the info together? They are the same person! No one has refered to him as Tobi except for himself. Pain, Konan, And Zetsu know that he is Madara and call him by that name, the only one that doesn't know is Kisame. I'm pretty sure a lot of people want this to happen. Why is it not happening then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.76.123 (talk) 20:54, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Pain isn't the Leader
Im pretty sure that because Madara made Akatsuki, and gives orders to Pain, that Madara is the Leader. Only Kisame refers to Pain as Leader. Pain, Konan, and Zetsu all obey his direct orders. so that means 3 out of the 4 members besides Madara serve him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.76.123 (talk) 20:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Yet more proof
Yet more proof that Tobi is Madara in chapter 397 (not that any more was needed). He states that he himself, personally, is Madara Uchiha. Really, how much more proof can there be before someone just edits "Tobi" to "Tobi/Madara Uchiha"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.97.162 (talk) 15:20, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Seconded. It's not even up for debate whether or not they're the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkmage Rector (talk • contribs) 05:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Add 'deceased' to Itachi now?
Chapter 396 really ended the discussion. Madara clearly says 'Itachi's corpse.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.213.237 (talk) 12:30, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

But in chapter 397, Itachi is cleary alive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.91.77.69 (talk) 10:25, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

No he isn't. Confirmed spoilers don't have him in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.37.209 (talk) 01:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, you have to notice the way he's shaded. It's to demonstrate that this is just a memory of his image. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkmage Rector (talk • contribs) 05:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Pein, not Pain
It bothers me that Pein is called and listed as Pain. Just because it sounds like pain doesn't mean it is. His name should be changed to correct this mistake. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RyanRendan (talk • contribs) 04:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Please read the archives, and possibly read something about Japanese culture and language - its completely, totally obvious that the intended translation is "Pain". Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 05:19, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Direct literal translations are not always the best thing to do. RyanRendan:RyanRendan (talk) 00:54, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Wasn't there a lengthy discussion called "Pain, not Pein" a while ago?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, thus the archive suggestion by Kryten. Should be in the most recent one. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 00:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

If there was I didn't see it.RyanRendan (talk) 00:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Then trust me or look yourself, its there. Its done. As of now, until proven otherwise, Pein's name is Pain here.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I see I'm just bringing back old things now. I'm sorry.... but still E! -end RyanRendan (talk) 01:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC) Pein is the real body. The Pains are the Rikudou bodies! (UTC)
 * Here. Don't be lazy next time. JuJube (talk) 01:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Could it just be possible that Pain/Pein's name was translated wrong? Maybe Kishimoto never intended his name to be written as "Pain" in english. Pain in japanese Is Itami, Kurushimi, Kushin, Itazuki, and/or Kutsuu. Could one of these be his name? (DaMakDaddy (talk) 01:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC))

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Battoubro (talk • contribs) 21:23, 17 March 2008 (UTC) [

Pein is definatly not spelled like Pain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mangekyousharingan1918 (talk • contribs) 15:02, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== if you go to saiyan island then it will tell you that his name can either be spelled pein or pain.

] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.89.192 (talk) 06:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Itachi seperate?
Itachi's dead now, so what does it even matter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.112.148 (talk) 18:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Right i think this is very nessisary to seperate Itachi. He has been in Shippuden and the naruto manga load's recently and has been the subject of very important plot's. Before Orochimaru was the main Antagonist but now it's pretty much Itachi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.242.2 (talk) 22:16, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Is there enough reliable third-party sources to justify a split, though? It doesn't matter how important a character is to the plot. If there are no reliable third-party sources that will allow the character to pass the notability guideline, then it shouldn't be split off. --Farix (Talk) 22:27, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * There isn't enough. No conception information and reception is practically nonexistent. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 22:29, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Well if you take a look at www.leafninja.com you will find out alot about Itachi. And i mean alot. And if you mean reception on the character you can find it at the official naruto site [I Think that's the one though it could be the different one] I Think Itachi deserve's to have his own article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.240.49 (talk) 12:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Where? all the information is plot overview. About reception we need more than merchandising, we need critics of the character, pay a look at Sasuke Uchiha, Sakura Haruno and Kakashi Hatake that are GA now.--Tintor2 (Talk) 12:49, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * leafninja is not a reliable source and the official Naruto website is not a third-party source. So you strike out at both ends. A fiction character does not deserve their own article until the notability of the character can be demonstrated through reliable third-party sources. --Farix (Talk) 12:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

If Itachi gets killed soon then he is just a plot device. In the event he's not it is likley that he will become a main and noteable character. Even if we just use the manga itself it is still better than nothing... But I feel this will not matter because it is likely he will die soon. (un-named) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.84.102.76 (talk) 04:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)


 * What does that have to do with him passing WP:N or WP:FICT? --Farix (Talk) 10:46, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm just saying that if he dies soon that their is no way he will pass the FICT (he would just be a plot device). And I think that there is a good chance that he will die soon (90%+). But there is a good chance if he does not die soon he will become a very important character. If that is the case we should have an article on him just, even if he does not on secondary sources, to make the wikipedia Naruto series consistent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.84.102.76 (talk) 17:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)


 * That does not matter, what a character needs to get its own article is out-of-universe information; no importance in the plot. Even this minor character from the simpson has its own article for having out-of-universe info and its a FA-class.--Tintor2 (Talk) 12:49, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I agree that Itachi becoming an important character in the Narutoverse would not give him an article under wikipedia's noteablity gudieline. But I would like for him to have an article anyway so the wikipedia's naruto series is logically consistent and not a bunch of random articles. But as I said before this will likley not matter due the fact that there is a good chance he will die soon. If you want to see a wikipedia anime series with too many artices check out Bleach. (edit: it is very likley Itachi will meet the noteablity gudeline soon if he becomes a major character -- so it won't matter the other way to. At least someone will make a figure of him or something silly like that.)

Leave all descesed members like Itachi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.73.118.96 (talk) 18:51, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Plot importance does not mean he gets his own article. Real-world importance means he gets his own article. Godspeed.  Stardust Dragon  14:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Muramasa itachi (talk • contribs)

Explanation of Teams?
Can we try to point out how each partner keeps the other well balanced like Itachi being calm and collected while Kisami is insane, Fire, Water, Etc.--76.199.5.82 (talk) 01:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless this was stated in the manga itself or was mentioned by a reliable third party source it would violtaed WP:OR and can't be included. --76.71.209.154 (talk) 22:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Susanoo is the god of the sea and storms and is often described as a shark man. Kisame is a "Shark man" and uses Suiton abilities.

Susanoo uses a sword. Kisame uses a sword.

Susanoo is said to be uncontrollable and reckless. Kisame is the same.

Susanoo was exiled and went on a rampage afterwards. Kisame either left or was exiled and went back to kill.Perry~H —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.73.118.96 (talk) 18:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah rubbish, Kisame being uncontrollable and reckless? Which is why he is able to swing around a huge sword without screwing up and why he obidiently follows Peins and Itachi' orders? Need to rethink your info man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DrTheKay (talk • contribs) 08:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Another Member
I don't remember what chapter it was, i think the one with itachi fighting Kakashi, Naruto, Sakura, and Chiyo. but when Deidara and Sasori bring Garra's body to the hidout, when everyone is getting ready, it shows a member with spiky hair that goes back. it wasn't Kisame because he didn't have a sword. and it wasn't the leader. and in a picture of Akatsuki, there is a person standing by Pain who has spiky hair. i just think it should be added. for all we know, that was Madara helping to seal Shukaku. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.76.123 (talk) 21:33, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * That could have been Kakuzu before his design was finalized, or maybe it was Kisame but he didn't have his sword on his back. I'm almost certain it wasn't a yet unrevealed member, seeing as how that was nearly 100 chapters ago and no further mention of this mystery Akatsuki has been made. 24.131.8.253 (talk) 16:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

It could have been Zetsu, Madara or Kisame without a sword. It was definatly not a tottaly unmentioned character, the picture might not have been clear enough to tell which Akatsuki it was. March 27 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mangekyosharingan14 (talk • contribs) 19:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

i think that was Tobi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.124.115.245 (talk) 20:10, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Could it have been one of Pein's multiple bodies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.251.66.183 (talk) 01:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Amaterasu Detail
As of now the statement about Amaterasu says that the fire burns until the recipient is turned to ash. While this is true the technique is still under Itachi's control and he can indeed stop the flames from spreading at his will as seen in Manga Chapter 390. I just wanted to discuss the change before putting it in or having someone else put it in (either way). Narchy (talk) 16:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * How does that indicate he can stop the flames? The body still appears to be burning, hence the smoke emanating from it. ~SnapperTo 18:20, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The flames stop progressing throughout the body on Page 6, and Zetsu also mentions that Itachi willingly stopped the technique to get at Sasuke's eyes. The following page, 7, shows the body still lying on the ground and the head is visibly intact and void of flames, once again pointing to Itachi's ability to willingly halt the technique. Narchy (talk) 04:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * yes it is even said that he stopped it-- The Last Uchiha  08:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * My mistake; I didn't bother reading the text. Still, it's not necessary to point out the exception to everything, as the flame's ever-burning capacity is what's important. You can add it if you really want to. ~SnapperTo 18:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * i know, but i was just pointing it out n_n -- The Last Uchiha  01:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

It says that each eye technique is "progressively more taxing for him to use, such that after performing Amaterasu his eyes begin to bleeds", but thiat may have just been from him overusing the Mangekyo Sharingan in general, as he was shown to be going blind during the course of the battle. Remember that Itachi used Amaterasu to escape from Jiraiya's toad stomach technique, and his eyes weren't bleeding then. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.133.248 (talk) 15:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Well at that point, the story wasn't that far along. Nobody even knew what Mangekyo Sharingan looked like at that point.  The design was only revealed in the Sasuke Retrieval  arc during flashbacks. Sasuke9031 (talk) 18:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Ninja Ranks
I was thinking, are there any proofs that the title "S-rank" can be applied to any "far from the average" shinobi's? I guess that all through out the series, the only ninja's shown and that were classified as S-rank, D-rank or whatever were all criminals? is this right? or is it just me? then can Jiraiya and Tsunade be ranked as S-class if this is the case? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.77.55 (talk) 00:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Jiraiya and Tsunade are not criminals, so they are not ranked as S-Rank-- The Last Uchiha  04:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

look. just because the pervy sage and tsunade left the village without the hokages permission does not mean that they are s-rank criminals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.89.192 (talk) 06:16, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

At s-rank crimanal is a crimanal that is concitered very dagerous just like an s-rank mission, or ninja —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.124.115.245 (talk) 20:13, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

One may be S-Rank without being a criminal, if they're in another village's bingo-book. I'm sure Jiraiya easily qualifies as S-Rank in, say, Iwatagakure or Amegakure's bingo book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.153.118.224 (talk) 18:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Headline text
whoa!whoa! 1. you spelled orochimaru wrong and 2. when did he tell naruto and his friends to killas many members as they can?!

tobi's "myterious" powers
it said that tobi is able to avoid fatal attacks when i looked up him and last time i checked there wasnt one episode in the naruto shippuuden (or manga for that matter if im not mistaken) that showed tobi being able toavoid attacks like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.89.192 (talk) 08:02, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ....um....how far are you in the manga?-- The Last Uchiha  08:21, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

When Sasuke was fightting Deidara, he tried slashing tobi in half and although it did hit,he kinda just stud there unharmed, and recently when fighting the konoha ninjas, naruto hit him in the chest with Rasengan and it just went though himAllen Walker 09:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

oh,ok! that so much for informing me about that! sorry i was such a bother! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.89.192 (talk) 20:39, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Tobi ~ Uchiha Madara is less likly to be a ghost of chakara left behind by madara but his eye techinque is refered as Immortal so thats why he avoided dedaras final suiside explosion and all of narutos attacks.Perry.h —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.73.118.96 (talk) 18:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Speculation >and< incorrect (based on the information we have, anyway). 24.119.150.138 (talk) 09:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

The current layout
I believe the layout needs to go back to Current Members then Former Members. The current one is confusing and sloppy. Also, change Madara's name to Madara, once and for all. The Tobi alias is completely outdated and hasn't been used at all lately. It's nonsense to continue listing his main name as Tobi. AnimeNikkaJamal (talk) 01:43, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * He's referred to as Tobi at the end of chapter 395, so obviously Kishimoto's screwing with us. As to the layout, all members will be former by the series' end, so it will eventually make no difference. Also, it's pointless to be rearranging the the article simply for the sake of pointing out who is and isn't dead; you can figure that out by reading the character descriptions. ~SnapperTo 02:38, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The current layout is satisfying to me. As for Tobi/Madara, we could change his name to madara and merge the Madara info on the List of Minor Naruto Characters here, thus taking care of a small bit of that article. Sasuke9031 (talk) 04:51, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * As to the layout, all members will be former by the series' end, so it will eventually make no difference.
 * Probably but wiki's not a crystal ball iirc.
 * Also, it's pointless to be rearranging the the article simply for the sake of pointing out who is and isn't dead; you can figure that out by reading the character descriptions.
 * Classification would improve the article. Suppose you knew very little about Akatsuki and would prefer first know about who's still alive and affecting the development of the Naruto series. It would benefit to know who's currently still alive. I suggest at least adding a small list (like the rings list) of the Living, Dead, Former, and Agent members of Akatsuki.209.244.43.34 (talk) 07:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I doubt a reader would first want to know who is and isn't alive. I think my first question would be "What the hell is Akatsuki and why should I care?" If anything the status parameter would be restored for each character, though again you can easily figure out their fate by reading their description. ~SnapperTo 17:31, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Knowing who's alive and dead is important to the article, and it makes it seem like Deidara is still alive and Orochimaru is still a member. The current layout does not say who's alive or dead.
 * If anything the status parameter would be restored for each character, though again you can easily figure out their fate by reading their description.
 * What if someone quickly wants to know who's alive and dead.Then they would have to look through the whole confusing and sloppy article and read each description. ReefaTo 18:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't really know what to make of this Snapper. THis guy is obviously trying to act like your sock, but knowing your reputation you don't use socks.  Should we report him? Sasuke9031 (talk) 23:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If somebody wants to know if somebody died, they just have to read the text. If we really need to add former member, Asuma would be a former member of team 10.Tintor2 (talk) 23:26, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What if someone quickly wants to know a character's signature abilities? They can read the article. What if they want to quickly know what village each member of Akatsuki originates from? They can read the article. If they're too lazy to do that then they desperately need help. ~SnapperTo 02:54, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Itachi is still alive in 397
It is clearly shown him and Nagato in a conversation. Itachi is blinded from Mangekyo Overuse, and Nagato heals his eyes. 121.91.77.69 (talk) 10:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Show me the link. Sasuke9031 (talk) 10:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * 397 didn't come out yet, and we usually don't add anything until the actual chapter is out, not just the spoiler. (plus, Itachi's dead, so I don't know how he would be having a conversation) Jazz Band Member (talk) 10:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

397 finally aired. Nevertheless it has not been stated or leastly indicated that itachi is still alive. It seems more likely that itachi is really dead guys, refering to tobi's statement saying that itachi implanted all his three final eye techniques into sasuke to protect him from, as likely as not, tobi/madara.

please read the latest chapter! --Tommyss (talk) 09:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Itachi's dead, he gave his powers to Sasuke in an attempt to both protect him and kill Madara and now Madara's gonna explain to Sasuke why Itachi was a goody-two-shoes all along. End of story, unless Kishi makes Itachi a Pain or something like that. AnimeNikkaJamal (talk) 13:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion I think it should be added that Itachi is dead in his profile on this article. SasoriMan8395 5:04 P.M. April 14, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by SasoriMan8395 (talk • contribs) 21:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

About Itachi's true intentions
In chapter 397 it is apperantly shown that Itachi was never truly evil. Because Madara Uchiha said that Itachi risked everything to protect the Shinobi world,the Leaf Village and most of all, Sasuke.But in his article, it gets the impression that he was evil.Any thoughts about that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by AngelicMasterMind (talk • contribs) 21:58, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Well,I think that right now,the extent of what Itachi did is pretty vauge,so it should probably be kept how it is until the next chapter in May,when we should be able to make a complete statement on the matter.XLS724 (talk) 17:21, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Uchiha Itachi Itachi alive,when chapter 399 itachi with together Kisame —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.162.80.102 (talk) 15:37, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

How can there be a chapter 399? right now it is just 397 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.212.129.140 (talk) 02:40, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Probably just a flashback. Naruto is notorious for those. Sasuke9031 (talk) 21:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * People, this is just a twist in the story. naruto creators do it all the time. its common ammong entertainment. The whole thing about tobi being madara was a plot twist. this is just another one to keep the ratings up for naruto. The media does this more often than naruto eats ramen(sorry, just though i could use a funny analagie hehe..) -Tobi4242 (talk) 20:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Agh! Thankyou Tobi4242 for having sense amongst a lot of the narutofan community. A lot of people seem to forget that Naruto is JUST A STORY NOT REAL LIFE, and as a story, it HAS to have plot twists to keep ratings up. Tobi 'apparently' being Madara is one of them, Itachi now apparently actually being a good guy (something I actually thought the whole time) is also among them. It then raises the suspiscion that perhaps Kisame has good intentions despite his sadistic comments (Kisame was said to be banished for deaths of feudral lords and planned assassinations, this could be because the government in the Water Country was corrupt and Kisame was fighting for the free peoples. This would also explain why Itachi and Kisame are the only non-rain combo who get along). That said,...Tobi is definately Obito. I'm not ruling out that Madara will have an appearence or is in possession of Obito, but the body of Tobi is Obito for ratings sake. Whats more interesting? Sasuke meeting an age old ancestor (YAWN)? Or Kakashi meeting up with his good friend and teammate now his enemy (YEAH! COOL!) I think the answer is obvious. Theres tons of reasons why Tobi is Obito anyway. Hello? Earth Jutsu, and Obito was last seen surrounded by who? Earth Country Ninja. And please don't use the 'But thats too obvious to be a plot twist!' argument, remember the 4th hokage and naruto? zomg I never guessed they were related! DrTheKay (talk) 08:45, 25 April 2008 (UTC)DrTheKay


 * Verifiability and No original research. Take your speculation elsewhere. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 08:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. Tobi is Madara Uchiha.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.133.146 (talk) 15:19, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Volume 41 cover is a better view of the Akatsuki
http://www.leafninja.com/images/volume/Volume41CoverBig.jpg

This is a much better view of the Akatsuki than our current one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alwayssummerdays (talk • contribs) 16:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Current image: 2 characters are not visible.
 * That image: 4 characters are not visible.
 * Doesn't seem to be much of an improvement. ~SnapperTo 16:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Merge
I think we've dodged the issue long enough. People have gone on and on about "future notability" and "unfeasible merging," but we're really sidestepping the issue. We aren't going to get significant reception in the near future (or perhaps ever), and if there ever really is reception given, it will be for specific characters (Itachi, maybe Deidara). List of Naruto villains has been cleared to the point where this merge is entirely feasible also. Besides the characters, the content on this page is a giant load of in-universe details that look more appropriate for the Naruto wikia. Merging is best. Sephiroth BCR ( Converse ) 05:58, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. This should be cleaned up and merged into the villain list. The only items not sourced from manga volumes are the voice actors. The group as a whole seems to have no real world notability and significant coverage. AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm kinda on the fence with this one. On the one hand, the merge would satisfy the notability problem that this article is facing, and also combine the Tobi/Madara sections making them easier to read, but on the other hand, we already have three outside sources, I think, (Is the Anime News Network considered an outside source, because I think so) which leads me to believe that the next time I overdo it on the Monster and can't sleep, I can find even more from them regarding Akatsuki.  I think templating for merge is the step that should be taken at this point and I would be more than willing to do so. Sasuke9031 (talk) 06:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with the merge (thanks sephiroth for the message). I remember making this draft with reception of Itachi Uchiha and I could find almost nothing (and dont even think about conception). Also, the sections wardrobe, goal and overview are overdetailed (for example the rings) and most editors may one day take this article to AFD (again).Tintor2 (talk) 13:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

If Tobi and Madara Uchiha are merged, I guess his name will still be Tobi, right?Tintor2 (talk) 16:35, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I remember when I said that the Naruto information on Wikipedia would one day be reduced to a single generic picture and a paragraph. I think this merge is another step in that direction. 24.131.8.253 (talk) 18:11, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * And if I remember correctly, that statement was the result of a bad faith deletion nomination, which this clearly is not. At this point, per WP:CRYSTAL I say go ahead an merge.  Having had time to really think about it, I suspect that in the future, say Novemberish, when Shippuden is supposed to come out in English, we may get more reception, however, since WP is not a crystal ball, I say go ahead with the merge and we can reconvene if and when that does happen.  Lord knows, we don't need two entries on Tobi/Madara. Sasuke9031 (talk) 19:21, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If you were to merge it, it would be like putting Orochimaru on that list. This artical has a lot of important information that would be lost if it were to be merged. I say no to the merge. Jazz Band Member (talk) 11:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Could you tell me what is the important information that would be lost? Important info such as what beasts they have now or their methods of whatever wouldnt be lost, only overdetailed info such as those rings may be deleted. If it is by relevance in the plot that is not important.--Tintor2 (talk) 13:20, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Support merge. No out-of-universe, and now that we have FOUR GA's, there isn't an excuse to keep in-universe articles anymore. While Naruto and Gaara can make GA, the rest, besides current GAs, should be merged. This includes Akatsuki, Jiraiya, and Tsunade. I am concerned on how the merge will turn out, however. What info will be kept and lost? Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 23:50, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I've created a merge sample for the marriage of this article and List of Naruto villains. Thoughts? ~SnapperTo 03:23, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks good. Fire away. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 03:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Let's do this. Sasuke9031 (talk) 03:40, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed too. Time to merge.--Tintor2 (talk) 13:33, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Time to leave wikipedia and go to naruto wikia >.> -- The Last Uchiha  18:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * My only concern is that you've removed just about every reference this article has from the merge. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 17:33, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The references were not in Template:Cite book. I will try to help adding those references.--Tintor2 (talk) 17:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Tobi/madara uchiha article mergings
just to let you guys know, i merged both of tobi and madara's articles into one main article. Its proven that tobi is madara in one of the latest chapters, so therefore it shall be merged. any of you can make any corrections to article as you wish. i also deleted the other madara uchiha article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.27.8.200 (talk) 23:45, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

hello
anyone hear what i had just said earlier?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.27.8.200 (talk) 23:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

new article?
i think that there should be new tobi/madara uchiha article. Or merge and revise the article a little bit. anyone agree with me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.27.8.200 (talk) 21:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No, there doesn't need to b a new Tobi/Madara Uchiha article. Character articles should only be created for characters with real-world notability, not just to have a new place for excessive plot summary. AnmaFinotera (talk) 22:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, seeing the discussion two up from here, its clear the user means sections instead of actual articles. They want Tobi and Madara's section put together. They apparently didn't know we were merging Akatsuki into List of Naruto villains, so their sections will be put together into a single "Madara Uchiha" section. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 20:42, 1 May 2008 (UTC)