Talk:Akatsuki (Naruto)/Archive 3

Tobi's manner of speech
In Tobi's entry, it says that his manner of speech is very formal and correct. I'm not sure this means anything to most people, at least not in English. Can someone explain what this description is supposed to mean and polish it up so its a little more informative/intelligible? Otherwise, it should probably be taken out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Plunge (talk • contribs).


 * Can't really put it much simpler. Formal - not causal. Correct - not slurred. Something akin to Rock Lee's manner of speech. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 22:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In japanese there is more definition in speech patterns that define how you view whoever you might be addressing. the most common example is using honorific terms, titles, and the fairly well known masu format of speech. Rather than casual statements you'd make to your equal, tobi is speaking in a very repectful format that is very formal and stiff, showing great respect to whoever he speaks too. This could be the difference of saying im going casually "Ikeru" to im going in a formal fashion you'd say to perhaps your teacher "ikimasu". Of course this is very simply defined ever so elloquently in the article as formal, so it need not be changed. --Midusunknown 10:50, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Most readers of the ENGLISH version of wikipedia know nothing about the various forms of speech in Japanese, and certainly "correct" means little (do other characters commonly speak in gibberish). I'm just sugguesting a better explanation for causal english-speaking readers.  Or perhaps a link to a discussion of japanese honorifics?


 * Or perhaps they just might take formal to mean just that: formal. You telling me you don't know the definition of formal, or suggesting that others don't? Formal is fine. It is a simple and elloquent way to describe his manner of speech. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 03:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

unnamed member-accessory or hole
I have a copy of shonnen jump weekly vol. 35 with the spread of akatsuki and even i can't define if it is a crack in the rock or some accessory. It is the exact same colour as the rock itself, however it overlaps the members head and is shaped far different from the other cracks. My point being, this undefinable piece should not be included under his section until the character is seen further and one side or the other can be proven. --Midusunknown 10:53, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Comparing to this picture http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/vol27.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=13554 it should be pretty obvious that it's something that belongs to the head and not the background. When we only had chapter 238, it could have been a cleaning mistake, but now we have two pics from the same angle showing the same thing. It's definitely part of the character. Grrblt 18:29, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I would hardly say its definite, but i'll concede that its enough evidence to include it, only know it would be a constant back and fourth if i did not. I personally hold no strong opinion one way or another, but all I know is from the colour spread, its undefinable. add it. --Midusunknown 07:10, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with Midusunknown|Midusunknown. That 'thing' near the unknown Akatsuki member's head apears to be just detail from the background; a crack or something to that effect. --Beef noodles 01:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Could it be a "crack or something" on the same member in two separate pictures? Remember, when we got 238, the only thing that stood out about this member was the "pineapple head". The cleaners had not seen the color pic and they had no idea what this thing was. Now we get a color screen, showing the thing on the head in the same position as the old one. The same "crack" wouldn't appear in the same place twice unless it was something else than a crack. Grrblt 09:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well... He might be standing on the same spot on those 2 pictures... lol
 * Nice try but they are not in the same place as before. 238 pic is in a cave, 317 is some sort of room with nice walls. Grrblt 19:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Origin of the Akatsuki members
Should we add the hidden villages that Akatsuki's members came from to their profiles? Obviously we don't know all of them, but it might be worth doing. --AvatarZero 14:26, 24 August 2006 (GMT)


 * It's noted at the start of each bio. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 14:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Unamed member's gender
After looking it up, I've seen people mentioning that interview. Apparently it's from a Jump Festa interview that says "A nicely designed person will soon make an appearance in Akatsuki. And also a kunoichi of considerable strength." Has anyone seen this interview or is it just a fake? Nemu 18:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a December 18 interview and I'm betting in context he meant Sakura. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 18:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Sakura was already introduced. My money would be on Yugito, a strong kunoichi introduced at the same time as the new Akatsuki pair. In any case Kishi did not say the kunoichi would be an Akatsuki member. Grrblt 20:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In either case, the flow of his comments at least makes it clear that he doesn't mean the final member, and given that we've had roughly half of Akatsuki introduced in that time-span, I'd say whoever he meant we've seen by now. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 20:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Deidara
Deidara is a female Gaara has called her a she many times. ~ Wickanprince


 * No. He is a guy. Nemu 00:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Gaara called Deidara a she in some translations, because the original Japanese didn't reveal Deidara's sex. Instead of 'he' or 'she' like in English, Japanese commonly uses things like 'that person'. In order to make the English translation sound OK, the translator had to guess and write either he or she. Unfortunately, some chose 'she', and when it was later discovered that Deidara refers to himself using male words (they have male and female 'I'), the damage was already done. Deidara also doesn't have any breasts, which is quite uncommon for females in manga. Also, the shadow of Deidara speaking in anime episode 135 has a very deep male voice.
 * It should be noted, however, that Orochimaru talks using female pronouns; a feature to make him seem even creepier. But in his case, other characters have referred to Oro as male and his gender is not really up for discussion. Still, it shows that the male pronouns that Deidara use are not a 100% guarantee, but until we see someone refer to Deidara as female (in the original language), he should be considered to be male. Grrblt 09:44, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

How can you tell she doesnt have breast she could be an A its hard to tell with that robe. Plus many charecters have opisite sex vioces Haku for example is a guy and dresses like a girl and kinda sounds like one. Personly I think we should just say it in the discription as the gender is unknown although I believe she is a girl.~Wickan prince
 * He's male. Listen to Grrblt. The Splendiferous Gegiford 01:41, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * We can tell Deidara doesn't have breasts, because we've seen him from some angles where the robe wasn't in the way. Check out the Unnamed member, that's how breasts look in the Akatsuki robe. Haku was 15 years old. And I know a few men age 15 that don't have very male voices, but I have never heard a female speak with Deidara's voice. Besides, Haku's voice actor was decided after the manga revealed Haku to be a "girly male", while Deidara only had that small speech in the Akatsuki cave. The anime team would not have chosen such a dark voice without first asking Kishimoto if that person was a girl. Right now, everything points at Deidara being male except a few unfortunate translations. Grrblt 13:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

mhhmm then eplain the nail pollish and what does the darkness of the cave haft to do with anything
 * All Akatsuki members wear nail polish. The Splendiferous Gegiford 00:50, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Dude! Deidara's a guy! Listen to this, it's HIS voice: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vqgsIS_o1mc

Speaking of Deidara, isn't his eye colour cyan? If one takes a look at the "current Akatsuki roster" image at the main page and makes a google image search for "cyan", doesn't Deidara's eye colour match that colour perfectly?
 * Huh, it actually was listed as cyan a while ago. Someone must have changed it. The Splendiferous Gegiford 16:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Trust me. He is a guy. He has a guy's voice and there are lots of girly men in Naruto. It's only his hair that is girly, actually. His hair is what gets everyone confused. And the fact that he wears nail polish. But all Akatsuki members wear nail polish.

Good Article
Congrats to everyone on this achievement! - Malomeat 01:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Unknown fields
I went through and removed all of the fields that had a "?" in them. There's really no point in saying over and over again that you don't know the characters age, height, whatever. It helps to avoid clutter.--SeizureDog 17:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I think there is a point. It shows that we don't know their age, height, etc. Just leaving the unknowns out could indicate that we forgot to add it in or didn't care about it. Grrblt 09:00, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * At least you asked before you went ahead and did it. Even the official naruto stat book thingy has '?'.  The stats don't NOT exist, we just don't know them yet.  Sure we can go through and add an individual field every time a new bit of information is unveiled.  Its about this time that I wish Wikipedia had a rolling eyes icon.  Put them back.Darkwarriorblake 14:35, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * He makes a point. Having ? fields serves little purpose. Once we get the values we can readd them. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 16:59, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Have you never seen a movie, comic...anything where no info is available on the character? They use '?' for info unknown.  The info still exists and so should the field.  Removing them makes the page look retarded and not uniform.  It looks ridiculous right now.Darkwarriorblake 17:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It might serve little purpose, but it serves some purpose. A search on the article for "unknown" gives 11 matches, and all those have been used to show that we, the editors, have thought about an issue and that right now we don't possess the information. ? fields does the exact same thing. If someone new to Akatsuki reads the article and finds "Age: ?" he will immediately understand that information is currently unavailable. But if he sees "Age: 31" on Kisame and no age on Hidan, he might start thinking "hey I want to know Hidan's age, why haven't they listed it?". An encyclopaedia should not only tell what we know, but also what we don't know. ? fields serve the purpose of telling people that we don't know. Grrblt 17:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Akatsuki leader is Fourth Hokage?
The Akatsuki leader in the manga and the Fourth Hokage. Note the hair-do.

In China,there's rumors going around that say the Akatsuki leader is the Fourth Hokage,and he didn't die when sealing the 9 tail.Also,do you remember when orochimaru was fighting the 3rd hokage and he summoned the 1st and 2nd hokage,but the 4th didn't show up? Yea. lol. PS:Some also claim that the Akatsuki leader/4th hokage is naruto's dad...don't ask me lol. DivineBaboon 03:04, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * In a word, no. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 03:22, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Why would rumors in China indicate anything? Also, read this, this, this, this, and this to see that this has been discussed before, and that there is no evidence to support the leader's identity. Oh, and the leader and the Fourth have two different hair colors. ~SnapperTo 03:27, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

They show the leader covered by a shadow, so you don't know his hair color. Trust me. There is lots of evidence.


 * I don't remember it because it didn't happen. Sarutobi blocked the summon. If the Fourth hadn't been dead it wouldn't have worked in the first place (summon empty coffin technique???)  More importantly, if the 4th was the leader, Orochimaru would know it since he was part of Akatsuki.  Why would he attempt to summon the dead corpse of someone he knows is alive???Plunge 07:08, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

None of the Akatsuki members knows who the leader is. They don't even know his name!


 * Please end this argument now. The Akatsuki leader is actually Tazuna, the bridge architect from the Land of Waves. He was just pretending to be weak from the start.

How could it possibly be Tazuna? Tazuna doesn't live in Konoha.

OK, I know this sound weird but I think it Tobi. Now listen Tobi has a hair style like the leader's hair. Plus we never seen Tobi's face and the Leader face was a shadow. Also The we don't know the jutsu of Tobi or the Leaders so he could use shadow clone jutsu.

How could it possibly be Tobi? Tobi could never, ever, possibly be the leader.


 * Lol. 71.212.160.161 07:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It's Tazuna I tell you. You guys should believe me.

How could it possibly be Tobi or Tazuna? There is more evidence pointing to the leader being the Fourth Hokage and the Fourth Hokage being Naruto's father. First of all, They show the leader covered by a shadow, so you don't know his hair color. Second of all, the leader looks like the Fourth Hokage. And lastly, The Fourth Hokage is the only other person with blond hair and blue eyes. You see? The evidence points to him. Tazuna doesn't live in Konoha. And Tobi could never, ever, possibly be the leader. By the way, None of the Akatsuki members knows who the leader is. They don't even know his name!


 * Most of the edits above were jokes, in case you didn't catch on. And I don't care if he is, you are NOT adding it to this Wikipedia article until they explicitly state it. --tjstrf 03:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

OK.


 * A couple of points: 1: We know that the Leader has ginger hair, he's the top-right guy on the color page. 2: The Leader has odd eyes that the Yondaime Hokage didn't have. 3: There is absolutely no proof that the members don't know the identity of the Leader. 4: Yondaime Hokage is dead. 5: Even if he was alive, there would be no point in him becoming a criminal. Absolutely zero chance of Yondaime being the Hokage.
 * So there is actually more proof for Tobi. We haven't seen Tobi's eyes, Tobi is alive and Tobi is a bad guy. Yet, nobody believes Tobi is the Leader and I hope it remains that way. Leader is neither of them. Grrblt 08:33, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Does anyone have a different opinion? I can't think of anyone else the leader could be.


 * I am guessing that he is Nagato I think, if its the spiky haired ever-elusive guy that killed Jiraiya, or Madara/Tobi if its the guy giving him orders.--BurningNinja786 (talk) 02:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Zetsu's Village?
I may have missed this part, but where is it officially confirmed that Zetsu is from the Hidden Grass Village? Granted, I see how one might speculate that he is from that village, being a giant plant and all, but last I knew, it was still speculation with a somewhat poor-quality and questionable manga scan holding it up. --TengoQuillin 19:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * That very same "poor-quality and questionable manga scan" is the "confirmation" used for Zetsu's country. Refer to this discussion. ~SnapperTo 23:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It still seems there's a fair amount of debate over it. But it's not really an issue because I do see it, too, regardless of the manga scan. I was just wondering if there was anything anywhere in the databooks or anything about it, something a little more definite. Thank you for the discussion link. TengoQuillin 20:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Nah, none of the databooks have any info on Part 2 characters yet (I guess Zetsu counts as a Part 2 character). Those'll come when the 3rd databook comes out. The Splendiferous Gegiford 00:41, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * They'd have to be smokin' something good to not make him from the Grass village. Honestly, you don't put a giant venus fly trap on someone's head if you want to associate them with a different village. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 00:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * His only appearance in the second data book is on the Akatsuki page, and I doubt they'd mention anything about his country there. ~SnapperTo 00:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Too true, Someguy. I'd like to see an Akatsuki member from the Land of Red Beans, if this is what we get from the Land of Grass...Well, thanks all for the explainations and the like. I won't clutter up the discussion page anymore with this topic:) --TengoQuillin 21:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah.. or someone from the Land of Eggplants. I thought a wikipage is supposed to include facts not assumptions. --Beef noodles 02:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Well said. this is an encyclopedia article, not a forum for predictions. I say until proven, there should not be a listen country. I mean, even those that believe the scan must admit its sketchy at best. It's like saying nessy exists from his blurry pic that, just like this, could easily of been faked. --Midusunknown 09:05, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Zetsu could just as easily be from the land of vegetables. Which actually makes more sense because thier ninja use flower jutsu's.

Zetsu's arms
Does Zetsu have arms? I've never seen them. The leave like things really his arms? If someone has a picture of him and his arms, post it. Or hyperlink, please.


 * I don't know where exactly you would find a pic of his arms, but he must have arms since he has an identified ring on one of his fingers. Grrblt 12:34, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Zetsu's Trivia
you know i would really like this trivia added to zetsu about the similaritys between his character and two characters of the manga and anime scryed "Zetsu has a similar character design to alter power "Zetsuie" from the serialization scryed. He also seems to have similar powers of another alter power of the character Urizane in that they can both travel through plants that cover a large amount of distance in a short period of time."


 * This qualifies as non-notable trivia im my opinion. We're trying to reduce that from this page. I'm sure you could find similarities with practically all Akatsuki members and characters from other manga. Grrblt 14:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * i think its notable because that obviously where kishimoto got the character inspriation which indicates a lot about the character zetsu so i think that this sheds just as much light as the triva about hidan and kazuka's name


 * "Obvious"? I doubt it. Also, thanks for pointing out those two trivia sections, I'll go fix them. --tjstrf 16:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not notable in the sense that people not familiar with the other manga will have no idea what you're talking about and I honestly doubt they will be that interested. It's a fact that most anime characters nowadays are inspired by another character from another manga and it's not particularly sensational that Zetsu would be as well. However, I think the two pieces on Hidan and Kakuzu should stay; it is interesting to note that both halves of this team (and nobody else) have names that originated from Shogi. Kanji names are usually for signifying a very special meaning, and it's no coincidence that these two both have Shogi names at a time when Asuma makes ill-fated Shogi analogies. So I think the best course of action is to reinstate Hidan's and Kakuzu's, leave the Zetsu inspiration out of the article and cut the Sun Pagoda trivia on Deidara (which is pretty much the same thing as Zetsu's). Grrblt 17:15, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * ok i think your being to strict about the trivia i mean trivia is trivial information and actually scryed is a fairly well known anime it aired on adult swim and often scored very high ratings plus zetsu zetsuie are very similar names and i doubt thats coincidence i think people would find it intresting to know about this because this sheds light on possible interpretations of the character
 * Or not. Wikipedia policies on verifiability and Original research forbid it unless you can find a reliable source that agrees with you. Preferably a published one. --tjstrf 22:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * well then why is zetsu from the grass village and hidan not i mean there are both altered pics of them with a grass village forehead protector and yet only zetsu is from the grass village


 * Hidan's doesn't match properly, that's why. The grass logo is a little tuft of grass, Hidan's is just lines. Zetsu's? I remember there being some picture of him with the headband on, you'd have to ask. --tjstrf 22:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * yeah the headband hes wearing his in an altered pic just like the pic of hidan on the akatsuki page also you cant clearly see what it is he has there and also it was doctored to look that way from the original picture so there still is no proof


 * Toss accusations about all you want, it won't matter. Several independent pics of Hidan's symbol all show the same thing: three slanted lines. Zetsu's is in a graphic novel. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 23:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * you know if you turn out to be wrong which you are im goanna laugh so hard
 * Oooo, nice comeback. You just proved you have no argument. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 00:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

That said, I will laugh if it turns out that Tobi is Obito, the one hokage is the Akatsuki leader, or any of those other theories people were always vandalizing this page with. --tjstrf 00:05, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

if any of those theorie turn out true i will just cry and also some guy i have already stated my argument if you cant read then thats your fault

Meaning of Akatsuki
I noticed that on the Akatsuki page it says that Akatsuki means dawn or daybreak. Now I don’t speak or read Japanese but I did some research and found another possible translation. According to my findings Aka can have a couple of different meanings one of them being Bloody then I found out that tsuki means moon so I believe that Akatsuki could mean Bloody Moon.

I also believe that if that is the case than it could be a reference to an ill omen in the wiccen belief called blood on the moon. One of my reasons for thinking this is that it is a bad omen and I cant think of anything much worse than having a run in with the Akatsuki.
 * There was a discussion about that here. -The Splendiferous Gegiford 01:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Aka means red and Tsuki means moon. Don't ask me why they put red clouds. Someone else has an idea, though. Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SilM52CBAJ8

One have to consider the kanji when reading japanese, if Akatsuki's name meant "red moon" instead of "dawn" it wouldn't even be called "Akatsuki" but rather "Akaitsuki" (赤い月), and the red clouds are a referance to how the sky looks in the early morning hours. trivia: Akatsuki is a pseudonym for "In the event of" but this is written with a different kanji so don't start walking around thinking that Itachi is a member of the "in the event of" organisation now.

Easy to anger
So, in the light of the latest chapter (322) we learn that Kakuzu has the habit of killing his teammates in flashes of rage. Someone reminded me of how, in their introduction, Hidan was introducing himself as the one easy to anger and suggested that perhaps Hidan was just parodying on Kakuzu's violent behaviour. It would explain why Kakuzu, the one with the anger management problem, was all "shut up Hidan", and it fits with Hidan's attitude of not worrying about pissing Kakuzu off (since he can't die). Entire thread here http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=134065 It isn't a proven fact, but I think it makes incredible sense and I'd like to ask you guys if you think we should change the article accordingly. Grrblt 18:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree and think it should be changed. Vrtrahex 19:37, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Why no information on the Leader's jutsus?
All the other members have short descriptions about the jutsus and powers characteristic of the respective members. But when I added some bits about how the leader's justus so far revolve around cloning various elements of other ninja, they were removed. Why? The Leader may be mysterious, but there are plenty of things known about him/her for certain.


 * Not really. All wre really got on him is a blurry manga pic. 71.212.160.161 01:05, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Nonsense: we don't know what he looks like, but we know many things about what he can do. The manga clearly states that the cloning jutsus are his. I think what's been added so far about this is now fine and should be kept (though I just deleted ANOTHER "The leader is the Fourth!!" picture someone added! Plunge 16:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Delisted GA
This article has been removed from the GA list because half of this article's information has "non-notable trivia", is written from an in-universe perspective and it has no inline citations. Tarret 00:50, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Another concern would be stability. It's really too bad that adding speculation doesn't qualify as obvious vandalism. Have we considered semi-protection yet? --tjstrf 21:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * We did it once. These people are both persistent and ignorant in their vandalism. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 21:33, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think it's been done several times. It's unfortunate that pages can't be permanently semi-protected. The Splendiferous Gegiford 21:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Did it actually help? Because if so, I'd like to reinstate it even if it is temporary. I don't know about you guys, but my last revert's edit summary was going to be "Revert. You're an obnoxious bastard, go away." until I realized at the last second that it was against WP:BITE and WP:CIV. Having to revert the same page 4 times in 2 hours seems just plain excessive. --tjstrf 21:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm all for it. it does severly cut down on the nonsense. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 21:42, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Request was successful. That should save us some trouble for a while at least. Don't know how long until it expires or whatever. --tjstrf 22:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Which sentances? I'll fix 'em. :) -I PWN U ALL 18:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Real Artical for Sasori
Sasori has enough information on him to make one medium sized artical I mean come on people the dude is died and still doesn't have an artical of his own. But if there is not enough information ( but I still think there's enough ) then forget it but if there is then please make one or allow me to make one and don't delete it.
 * Considering Sai already has a (way too long) article, you may just have a point. --tjstrf 00:36, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Isn't there enough info on Sasori yet to give him an individual article? 71.212.160.161 01:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Possibly, but I don't really see the point. It just seems unneeded. Nemu 01:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Considering Sai already has... wait a second, didn't I just answer this? At any rate, if we make one for him, Itachi needs one as well. --tjstrf 01:08, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Itachi might deserve one once he becomes more prominent in the series again and when his background and motives are truly fleshed out. At his current state, I don't think he needs one. Sasori will unlikely have any more information unless Kishimoto decides to be a dumbass. I think he's fine in this article. Nemu 01:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Naruto just plain has too many characters. --tjstrf 01:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If any member of Akatsuki is given a huge role in the future (Itachi, the Leader), then an article can be made about them then. Sasori's role in the series is already over; his section is fine the way it is. The Splendiferous Gegiford 01:21, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

They have made an article about Sasori.

Unknown Village?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hidan's headband the same as one from the Hidden Grass village? You Can&#39;t See Me! 06:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 06:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

well no really isnt a correction some guy but your right hidan is not from the grass village heres a link http://www.degree-anime.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4171&pos=4--Zetsuie 15:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

GA article rebuilding
Seeing as the page is semi-protected right now and we needn't worry too much about our lovely speculation vandals, this seems like an ideal chance to regain GA status.

According to our delister, we have 3 things to fix:


 * 1) Too much "non-notable trivia"
 * 2) In-universe perspective
 * 3) Lack of inline citations.

Of those, the easiest, though potentially most time consuming is #3. All we need to do is pick facts from the page, find the place where they are first stated, and then use a tag to cite the information. #1 Just consists of trimming junk out. The hard one will be in-universe perspective, since that's practically just a judgment call by the reviewer, but it should still be doable.

Let's see... relevant links are WP:Writing about fiction, the good articles guide page, citation guidelines, in-line citation how-to, and Shinigami (Bleach), the Good Article closest in nature to this one. Let's get this thing back up to par! --tjstrf 07:23, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

change in infolists
I have a few suggestions for changes on the info list. First off, standardize all lists for the "real members" (current+Sasori). Right now, Itachi has a bunch of extra info like Ninja Academy Registration number and Voice actor. I'm personally no fan of including this info at all (specially registration number, who cares), but at least we should give the same kind of info on everyone. Oro, Kabuto and Yura (and any future subordinates) can keep their info list with only the Akatsuki-relevant stuff, as they don't all have rings or partners for example. Second, Debut should be split into First cameo and First appearance or something similar. With the current system, Deidara's debut is listed as 247 even though he appeared in 238 and even played a major part in the dialogue of that scene. 238 would be considered his First cameo, 247 his First appearance. Third, I think we know enough to add a Target bijuu to the info list. Itachi is after Kyuubi, Deidara caught Shukaku, Hidan caught Nibi, Tobi caught Sanbi and Sasori didn't know himself. It could be listed as Target bijuu: Kyuubi, jinchuuriki Uzumaki Naruto (not captured). Fourth is a small note really, Position should be renamed as Ring position to avoid confusion. Fifth is concerning the Unique traits that I believe should be changed into Defining characteristics. Someone, I believe it was Someguy####, mentioned in an edit summary that personalities aren't really unique and thus shouldn't be listed. However, it is just that kind of information that should be listed, and some traits listed right now aren't even unique either ("commonly uses water based jutsu", "master of the Sharingan", etc). Characteristics is good because it can include both skills and personalities. Grrblt 14:35, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Another suggestion: list the members by ring position, not alphabetically. Presently, we have one guy alphabetized under L for Leader, but Unknown is after Zetsu. We could list the right hand from thumb to pinky, and then the left hand in the same order. --tjstrf 17:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not so sure that is the best way of doing it. Right now it doesn't follow the same order as the list of Akatsuki Rings and looks just weird. However, as Oro is right in the middle of that list, it would look weird if we conformed the member order to the way the rings are listed as well. It all boils down to the fact that only nine rings are present in the Current Members so ordering them by their rings would make it look crippled. The alphabetical order is a pretty sensical way of doing it IMO, although I suppose you could put Unnamed above Zetsu if you wanted. Grrblt 12:36, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Three days and no complaints, I went ahead and made the changes. I also reverted the name order to alphabetical as described above. Grrblt 11:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, didn't notice your comment or I would have objected to the ordering change.
 * Counter-proposal: Place Sasori (deceased) before Tobi. Orochimaru will now be in his proper ring position at the bottom of the list. Since ring position will not change based on the passage of time, we will never have to mess with the order again, and it will be more encyclopedic that way. --tjstrf 18:07, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I still don't like it. Listing by rings would have worked if Sasori hadn't been replaced, but we can't list 11 people at 10 positions. Current members, old members in alphabetical order works a lot better to me. People not familiar very with Akatsuki will consider the ring order to be a funny order anyway (talk about in-universe perspective), while alphabetical order is the way of pretty much everything else and everyone will understand it. Grrblt 18:15, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * But they don't all have names, and former members is itself an in-universe criteria. Additionally, the rings are the closest thing we have to an Akatsuki designation of rank. --tjstrf 18:21, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * We don't know all their names, but we can identify them all by a name. Listing by current and former members is something everyone can understand, regardless of how familiar they are with the Naruto universe. They idea of moving from in-universe perspective is so that people will have an easier time reading it; listing the members in an order they won't understand won't help that. The rings have never been hinted to have a connection to any form of rank; in fact there's never been any hint that there even are ranks save for the Leader. The only problem with the current list is that the order might change a little when the two last names are revealed and that is hardly an issue. Ordering them by rings will either give a broken series (because Oro's ring is missing), an order that does not follow the one given in the Akatsuki ring list (which we can't change since it corresponds to a picture), or a list with all 11 members that does not comprehensibly convey the current member list. Disregarding the disadvantages of a Ring order system, I also just don't see the point of changing a list that already works. Grrblt 20:12, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Why isn't there a real artical for Sasori yet?
Hey it's me again, there IS enough information for a real artical about Sasori. So why do people STILL think he shouldn't? Sai has a HUGE articl and he's been in just one Ark and same goes for Yamato. So just make one already and maybe you should read Sasori's artical he has now and see how long it is!!!! Sam ov the blue sand


 * Most of Sai's article could be cut, but even then, unlike Sasori, he's still alive. His article will keep growing. Sasori is dead and much of his past is unknown. The main article would just be a plot summary (like Sai). He's fine in this article and really doesn't need his own. Nemu 18:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * How do you know Sai will be a main character in Naruto. Also have you actually READ Sasori's current artical it's longer than Zabuza's and Haku's! I mean you can have things like early childhood and his relationship with his partner and his role in Naruto 2. So just make one already!   Sam ov the blue sand


 * If you really want to, just make an account and write the thing yourself rather than griping at us. Or don't. But either way, please stop making complaints on this page about the same issue after it was already addressed once. --tjstrf 19:57, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Sasori is dead. An article on him would not be contributed to past occasional link fixes and rewordings. Sai is not dead, and it stands to reason that his article will get longer as the series progresses. Zabuza and Haku have their own articles because there is no other place for their character information to be put. Unlike Sasori, there isn't really a group of characters they can go with; they aren't minor villians and their articles are too long to just be put on List of characters in Naruto. Sasori however fits nicely into the Akatsuki article, and that is where he is, and that is where he should stay. ~SnapperTo 19:59, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok but how do I make my own artical. Also you guys will just delete it anyways. One more thing sorry about whinning about this whole thing I just think Sasori should have his own artical and he's my favorite villion in Naruto 2 ( so far any way ). Sam ov the blue sand


 * No Akatsuki member deserves their own article as long as they are acting as group members first and foremost. Sasori's entry may be long, but he's still an Akatsuki member through and through and thus should be in the Akatsuki page. Itachi is the only member that might warrant an own article, because he has plot relevance outside of his Akatsuki business (Sasuke stuff). However, right now he too is acting completely on Akatsuki motives, which is why he should stay here as well. The only thing that would change my mind is if this page got up to about 80-100 K size, then it might be an idea to break it down. Otherwise they should all be onthe Akatsuki page. Grrblt 11:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * well it's me again this is going out to Grrblt what do you mean no akasuki member deserves his own artical I think that's complete and utter B.S. amd by the way I've started my Sasori artical.

Sam ov the blue sand
 * Uhm, where did you make it, exactly? Sasori turns up nothing when searched for... --tjstrf 21:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

That's the part I need help with. I started it and it comes up nowhere I need help PLEASE SOMEBODY HELP ME. Sam ov the blue sand

Thank you Tjstrf for your help I realy needed it Sam ov the blue sand 22:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)Sam ov the blue sand


 * Not a problem. You also need to log in though, or the 4 tildes won't work for signing your name accurately. Edit: Attack of the irony overload from hell. I forgot to sign my own name after posting that. --tjstrf 22:19, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Sasori still doesn't need his own article though. Comparing an article for him with an article for Sai is pointless, as Sai's role in the story is still going on. Sasori's dead; his role is over. The Splendiferous Gegiford 22:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The plainest argument for giving Sasori an article is that the Akatsuki is currently 46 kb long, and Sasori's section is 15 kb of that. If we gave him his own article and then made his appearance here short like Orochimaru's it would bring our article length under the suggested norm. Additionally, since we could avoid anything less than fully notable about Sasori this way, which would aid us in our (or at least my) attempt to get this back to GA status. In effect, Sasori already has his own article length section on this page. Why not split it? Plus, Sam wants one, and Sasori is as much a major character as Zabuza. --tjstrf 22:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Now that's what I'm saying finally somone finally gets it thank you Tjstrf you are the first to finally get what I'm talking about now hopefully all the other HATERS (I don't like to use slang on the computer)out there will finally understand too. Also why the heck do you think my name is Sam ov the blue sand a pun off of Sasori of the Red Sand has anyone noticed that I'm a Sasori freak yet? Sam ov the blue sand 22:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Uhm, they aren't being haters, they're just saying he doesn't need his own article. Which is true. But, since giving him his own article will help the quality and style conformance of this article, not hurt anything, and he does have enough info for a mid-sized piece, why not? --tjstrf 22:47, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * There has to be a line somewhere though. If Sasori, who will most likely be the least important of Akatsuki as his role in the series is over, is given his own article, all the other members will have to have their own articles as well. And then where will this article be? Itachi's the only one who would ever warrant his own article, and possibly the leader as well if his role is made large enough. The Splendiferous Gegiford 22:58, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Along with those reasons, Sasori's section could probably be trimmed down in the first place. Nemu 23:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

First off sorry to all the people I just called haters that inculdes you The Splendiferous Gegiford. Second Tjstrf is there going to be an artical or not if so who's going to make it hopefully not me. Thirdly The Splendiferous Gegiford not every akasuki member needs an artical only the ones with enough information. Sam ov the blue sand 23:32, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If things continue this way, there will be enough information on each member to make an article for each of them. The Splendiferous Gegiford 23:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

This article is supposed to be on the organization to begin with, not the characters. They're only here as a holding pen until they have enough info to be split. I've made the trim, as well as started the article Sasori (Naruto). (So have at it Sam, it does need some work). Other people, if you want to delete the articles of all the medium-significance villians, be my guest, I don't WP:OWN the Naruto section. But don't just target one or two of them. --tjstrf

YES finally thank you Tjstrf you're like the only person here who get's what I'm saying I also understand what your saying and I respect that. Also The Splendiferous Gegiford I respect what you have to say but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you. Sam ov the blue sand 23:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Well it's finally complete you can find it where Sasori's 'old' artical used to be just click on main artical and please tell me what you think it is my first one so it's prabally not perfect but I hpe it's OK thank you Tjstrf for your time check it out when you have time. Sam ov the blue sand 00:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I wouldn't call it complete, but its a start. I'll re-read Sasori's chapters in the manga and do some more organizing later. --tjstrf 00:37, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

You do that Tjstrf and I'll wait for it and in the meantime I'm waiting for The Splendiferous Gegiford to make a comment on my very first artical I'm waiting for those comments people please check it out. Sam ov the blue sand 00:53, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

You know, I just love having all the points I make go ignored. It certainly doesn't happen enough on that damn Zoro page. The Splendiferous Gegiford 13:48, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Say what? I listened to all your arguments, both here and there. I'm not ignoring them, I just happen to disagree with you in both cases. Not like that page has anything to do with this one anyway. --tjstrf 15:37, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * At the rate the series is going though, every member will have enough information to create an article. So you're saying that it's better for every member to have their own article rather than just the most important members? If you were going to create an article for one member to help save room in the article, the best choice would be Itachi has he has a larger role in the story than any of the other members. The Splendiferous Gegiford 16:14, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm fully aware of that, and suggested that an Itachi article be written above. As it stands, we have three options:


 * Split each character off into their own article once enough info about them has been gathered to write an article.
 * Don't, and instead simply trim the information about each character to an acceptable minimum, which will then be expanded as little as humanly possible. In other words, don't give in-depth coverage of the Akatsuki members as individuals.
 * Create an article called Akatsuki characters in Naruto or something similar to contain detailed summaries like those here.


 * I really don't care which of those is chosen, though existing article precedant would suggest we follow 1. (WP:CRUFT would prefer we follow 2.) According to WP:LENGTH the article is in the grey area, pushing towards the length where a split is highly advisable, and it's likely to just get longer.


 * For me, the biggest issue is this: Akatsuki is a delisted GA. How can we fix this? I made a topic on it above, but got no replies. I'm willing to put in time to get citations (and have already spent a couple hours doing so). But how do we deal with the non-notable trivia? The thing that immediately comes to mind is splitting off the developed characters, turning their sections here into a summary of their Akatsuki activities. --tjstrf 17:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey sorry I haven't said anything in a while got to go to school and all that jive but any ways The Splendiferous Gegiford what do you think of the artical waiting for a comment here people I don't care where you make whether it be on the disscussion page on Sasori's artical (which by the way is empty, sad) or here please comment. Two Tjstrf are you making the changes to the Sasori artical because if you are thanks but if you aren't somebody tell me who did.Sam ov the blue sand 21:13, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't make any significant changes to the article. I plan to, but I'm having to redownload most of the relevant chapters due to disk corruption. If you wish to see who has contributed to an article, you can click the link at the top of the page entitled "History", and view a list of all editors and contributions to the page there. Also, could you please use commas? I appreciate your enthusiasm but it's slightly difficult to read your sentences when you don't put any breaks into them. --tjstrf 21:21, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Wow a whole lot of people have made changes to the artical. Also what do you mean by I apperciate your enthusiasm. One more thing Could somone start a conversation on the disscussion page on Sasori's artical, I mean it would look pretty stupid if started one wouldn't it?
 * It's spelled appreciate. And there is a topic there now. --tjstrf 21:41, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You correct him on "appreciate" and not "article"? Which, seriously, you misspelled in double digit amount of times Sam, get it right. --SeizureDog 21:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * He didn't "correct" my spelling of article to be wrong. He did do that to my spelling of appreciate. See? --tjstrf 22:23, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeh about that, when I went to copy and paste 'I appreciate your enthusiasm ' (What can I say I'm lazy) I kinda clicked cut instead of paste so I tried to fix it sorry I don't like spelling. That's how you spell artical huh who knew, (I guess I didn't) like I said before I don't like spelling.Sam ov the blue sand 22:58, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

They've made an article on Sasori!

Akatsuki in top 100 most visited Wikipedia articles
On a minor note, we're the 49th most visited Wikipedia page, receiving nearly 12,000 views per day. I guess that explains all the vandalism we were getting prior to semi-protection. --tjstrf 17:46, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Seeing as Naruto is number 14, it's not strange at all. I also recently saw a "Yahoo top 5 searches thing" from some American News TV, claiming that Naruto was on the list. Apparently, it's a very popular subject and Akatsuki is a large part of it. PS I love it that an article called "lonelygirl15" is 13 on that list :) Grrblt 17:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * lol at List of sex positions being #11. The Splendiferous Gegiford 17:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Sex is obviously on the brains of Wiki-viewers. That list is actually rather depressing. --SeizureDog 20:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That probably comes from Google searches more than the users. Nemu 20:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Which is why I only said Wiki-viewers. If it was the users then all of those articles would be featured articles by now...--SeizureDog 21:23, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

A couple reference requests
I couldn't find an exact reference for the following article statements by reading through the manga:


 *  the leader has obliquely referred to their ultimate goal as "obtaining the Demon fox... and everything else."
 * It is implied that the cloak helps conceal their actions, especially hand-seals, giving them an edge in battle.
 * That ring list. (We really need a reference for this one.)

If anyone could help track these down, I'd be most grateful. --tjstrf 23:13, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * First one: Chapter 238 pages 18-19. Second one seems to be an original research. No clue about the rings. Nemu 23:31, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Anyone else have a clue on the others? --tjstrf 23:34, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Second is during Itachi's battle with Kakashi. Kakashi can barely follow Itachi's handsigns. Third is just a compliation of all rings seen thus far. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 23:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Which chapters did that battle span again? (I can always look for it myself if necessary, but I'd really rather not) And if the third is just a compilation, then why do we have that note about Zetsu's ring that references a list of rings? --tjstrf 23:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Hadn't thought of that. Does seem odd. Check the List of Naruto story arcs for a chapter list. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 23:53, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I just read the battle and I can't seem to find the second one mentioned. It seems to be an observation. Nemu 00:01, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The ring list was in one of the databooks, I know that. I think it was the second databook. Not sure on where to find images of it. The Splendiferous Gegiford 00:10, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Databooks? I have 2 of the 4 mentioned as references at the bottom, but they aren't translated. I'd say where to find them, but we have annoying issues with legality and the like. --tjstrf 00:18, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you need pages, it's shown on 180-181 of the second databook. Nemu 00:37, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep, found it already. I even found a place with the page scanlated, but the image link for that page (and practically ONLY that page) is broken. Thanks for the help. --tjstrf 00:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... That second thing isn't really true... Kakashi said, and I quote "He used that technique fast. I couldn't follow the seal formations with my eyes." Meaning that the coat had nothing to do with Kakashi not being able to see Itachi's seals.
 * Yeah, that's why it isn't in the article any more. --tjstrf 19:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Hidan's Village and Main Picture
==

can we add hidan's ninja village symbol to hidans information this seems like valuable information about hidan and would dismiss the confusion about hidans village hopefully also i think we need a better picture of hidan because the headband hes wearing looks to much like the grass symbol and that confused me at first--Zetsuie 15:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Shogi reference in Tobi/Sasori?
Ru.spider added this to Tobi trivia: I reverted it for now, since the kanji is the first part of Gyokunyo (jade woman) and not Gyokusho (jade general). However, I do think it's kinda interesting and wanted to hear your opinions on whether we could make something of this. Grrblt 10:02, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The kanji on Tobi's ring (玉) stands for gyoku, the jade general in shogi (玉将). It is a main piece of the black (challenging) side.


 * It's probably just coincidence, given the real origin of the rings' kanji. --Pentasyllabic 12:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, frankly I do not have any support for this idea, but it struck me once and I've decided to put it here. Perhaps I should have added something like "probably" there. Of course, we can wait to see how the plot goes and whether in chapter five hundred something Shikamaru is going to face Tobi as a head of challenging army ;) --Ru.spider 15:43, 22 September 2006 (UTC)