Talk:Akimel O'odham/Archive 1

Friendly?
Shouldn't it say the Ak-Chin were friendly to caucasians, since the word Anglos derives from the name of the Germanic Anglo-Saxon tribe and usually relates to the British or English? At the time of the meeting this tribe would have only been encountering Spaniards. Kaibab 03:02, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * wtf? --Krsont 14:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, has anyone confirmed the "I don't know" story? It is a common myth about how native groups got their names. 131.216.32.243 22:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)SisterCoyote 2:42, 20 February 2006
 * Pi 'añi mac is O'odham for "I don't know". One could also say "Pi mac", which could easily have sounded to a Spaniard like "Pimas" in response to the question "What peoples are you?". -- Node

Casa Grande
The article as written currently says that both that the Pima are descended from the Hohokam and that the Casa Grande ruins are Hopi and not Pima. However, the Casa Grande ruins are unambiguously Hohokam, so this is a contradiction in the article.

The citation for identifying Casa Grande as non-Pima is an encyclopedia article from 1913. However, as described in the Hohokam article itself, much archaeological research has been done since 1913. The article about the Hohokam at Encyclopedia Britannica, for example, states that The later occupants of the area, the Pima and Tohono O’odham (Papago), are thought to be the direct descendants of the Hohokam people.

If any encyclopedia is to be consulted, it seems to me that in this case, the newer one would be of more value -- and thus it would make sense to remove the claim made by the Catholic Encyclopedia regarding Casa Grande's supposed Hopi origins. Anyone disagree? --Kynn (talk) 10:04, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Diabetes
I changed the bit about Mexican Pima's not having diabetes. It's not something I made up, I got it from Schultz et al Diabetes Care. 2006 Aug;29(8):1866-71. Effects of traditional and western environments on prevalence of type 2 diabetes in Pima Indians in Mexico and the U.S. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16873794

Unfortunately, Wikipedia's reference system is unfathomable to me, and the so-called help page on this matter is completely unhelpful. Feel free to put in the reference if you do get this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brrrtje (talk • contribs) 13:17, 30 December 2010 (UTC)


 * You invoked a named reference with but you never defined it. For example, there is a reference named NMSU; the first time is is used, it is defined:




 * The same reference is used elswhere and invoked with:




 * You don't have to name a reference if it is only used once, just put it within  tags. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:35, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Language or Languages and Alliance
In most other descriptions of a people there is a section on the language or languages that they speak or that they spoke at one time. I didn't see a section on this and I don't see the information in the article. Also, in the article on the Yaqui people there is mention of an alliance with the Pima, the Apaches (all of them?) and the Mayo around the time of first contact with the Spanish. Did such an alliance exist and why isn't it mentioned in this article? 65.79.173.135 (talk) 12:51, 1 April 2016 (UTC)Will in New Haven65.79.173.135 (talk) 12:51, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi. You're right, this article is lacking a section discussing the Pimas speaking O'odham language. Feel free to add a section, including citations. If I can get to it, I will. Regarding the Yaqui connection. Not sure. Didn't see the connection mentioned in Yaqui, but I did a quick scan of the article. Again, if it is sourced, feel free to add it here. Onel 5969  TT me 14:00, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Photo's
I'm wondering if anyone has access to a couple of photo's of Akimel people that are from present day. This would be a simple way to remind viewers that Akimel people continue to exist and work against the common erroneous assumption that Native American groups are of the past -- a common problem with the portrayal of Native American populations. While the article clearly talks about the Akimel in the present, a person just glancing at the page without prior knowledge of the Akimel people might assume that they are from the US past. Keikofrancis (talk) 18:14, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Matrilocality? And qualm with the writing of "Olaski's"
The article here claims Pima society was based out of a matrilocal system, but Shadows at Dawn, a book by Karl Jacoby, written about the Camp Grant Massacre, describes housing habits as patrilocal. Is this a difference worth editing the Tohono O'odham page? The claim of matrilocality is not cited.

Olaski is a really bad way of writing 'Olas Ki:, considering I was confused by it at first myself and resorted to a fruitless Google search, so unless anyone has any objections I plan on modifying it. If you look up "olas ki", you get far more actual O'odham results than Olaski.

"Rsársavinâ" is not in a suitable orthography, and Frank Russel likely misunderstood the person he asked about the Sobaipuri.
"Rsársavinâ" is not in the Alvarez-Hale nor the Saxton orthography. This word was most certainly directly lifted from a Frank Russell text, or a text that uses the orthography that Frank Russell used. I know this because this orthography is also used in his book "The Pima Indians", and, on page 16, we get a chart for converting the sounds into its "English equivalent". Rs is not specifically identified by Russell in the chart, but other parts of the document point to its use as the consonant <ṣ> in the Alvarez-Hale system.

Using this orthography, Rsársavinâ can be interpreted as Ṣaṣavino, or maybe Ṣa:ṣavino due to the accent mark.

When looking through Madeleine Mathiot's O'odham Dictionary, the word for "spotted, freckled" was s-Si:bañmagï, which is a word that's a decent ways different from Ṣaṣavino. However, the word Ṣavino is most certainly in the dictionary. It refers to a roan horse.

I have a few theories as to how this could be. Maybe Russell meant to ask from who they got the horses, but they misinterpreted it as "What do you call those horses?". Maybe the word Ṣavino had the meaning of "spotted" but came to refer to roan horses by the time Madeleine compiled the dictionary. This is especially compelling because roan in Spanish is "Ruano" and its word for spotted is "Manchado", both very different from "Ṣavino".

Either way, I felt the need to put this topic to the Talk page because I see the word Rsársavinâ in way too many articles discussing the Sobaipuri and it's starting to annoy me seeing this weird orthography slip through the cracks. One video I saw had filler audio of someone (likely O'odham) trying to pronounce the word because the original narrator couldn't understand the orthography, and because it's such an odd way of writing it they didn't get it correct either!

In the mean time, I'll be editing the word into Ṣaṣavino. I feel it necessary for people to have a consistent orthography when reading the page, but if it gets reverted I won't have much against it.

Kopshi (talk) 10:28, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Unilateral move
Why the undiscussed, unilateral move to Akimel O'odham (Pima)? A move to Akimel O'odham would make much more sense. Yuchitown (talk) 19:31, 11 February 2023 (UTC)Yuchitown