Talk:Akkawi

Akkawi - Arab
Name of the cheese is Akkawi, after the arabic name for akka, not "acco". Historically Palestine. The cheese and its history has no connection to Israel. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC) So, Arab Israelis has no connection with Israel? 190.235.214.23 (talk) 07:42, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Ako is a city in northern Israel recognized by the UN as part of Israel. Miro80 (talk) 12:34, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Acre, Israel is very clear on this, part of Israel. Free1Soul (talk) 14:33, 23 August 2020 (UTC) sock

We should clarify that the cheese is of Arab and or Palestinian origin and originated on what is now Israel. Otherwise, the reader may interpret it as an Israeli invention. Reinhearted (talk) 17:35, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Anti-Palestinian Bias
There is a clear anti-Palestinian political bias in editing of this page that reverts any edits which clarify the cheese Palestinian origin. So no matter how you look at it, it is a Palestinian cheese, which is ironically how it is known for in the countries that were listed as countries of origin. --Crazyketchupguy (talk) 20:24, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) Origin from Palestine, not multiple countries: In other similar pages, like the Halloumi cheese for instance, you can clearly see a single country of origin, which is Cyprus, even though that cheese is widely and traditionally used all over the Levant. Yet, the Akkawi, literally named after a specific city, Akka, the Arabic name of Acre had multiple countries of origin. Even in the last version, edited by User:Onel5969, the name Palestine is nowhere to be found on the page. Palestine, although not yet recognized by all countries, exists as a culture and cuisine that predating Israel and as a country recognized by 138 states.
 * 2) The cheese predates Israel: Even though Akka (Acre) is now located in Israel, but the cheese is a traditional Palestinian food that predates the existence of Israel.
 * Please review the sources in the article. Onel 5969  TT me 21:24, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The sources you are referring to do not provide any source of evidence to their claim. One of them, Feta and Related Cheeses by A. Y. Tamime, R K Robinson, even adds Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia as countries of origin to that cheese, which is telling on the accuracy of the book's information. I added new information with sources just now, so let's see if they will be accepted or denied as usual. --Crazyketchupguy (talk) 03:19, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * And as expected, the edits were retrieved by User:Onel5969 again, although they were provided with sources. --Crazyketchupguy (talk) 13:20, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * You must use reliable sources. The reliable sources currently in the article match the descriptions in the article. Please stop your POV pushing. Onel 5969  TT me 13:22, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * As previously discussed on the two sources used in the article; their validity and the clear error in their narrative (Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia as countries of origin) make them hold no scientifc superiority over the sources provided by myself to make them more reliable. This is a very clear case of political bias. --Crazyketchupguy (talk) 16:32, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 October 2021
It's Palestine 2A02:C7F:A8BD:C00:ACC4:FC68:62C0:8198 (talk) 19:55, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:01, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Akkawi origin
Akkawi didn't originate in "Acre, Israel" hence the name Akka being the arabic name of the city pre the establishment of the state of Israel. What kind of sophistry is this. A disam link is clearer than a factually incorrect statement. Please change this just to the city "Acre" as this is clearer with a disam link and avoids sectarianism. Please comment what the best way to go about this. This revision is how it should read being impartial and not controversial. JJNito197 (talk) 12:58, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Extended-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:07, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 January 2022
Change origin from Acre, Israel to Akka, Palestine. The cheese was made before Israel and literally has an Arabic name, therefore it is clearly Arab and Palestinian. Not clarifying this spreads false information. 136.49.139.142 (talk) 22:35, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. This will clearly be contentious. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:49, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Your last sentence is incorrect. It is no more false information than writing (in English) that Julius Caesar ruled over Rome (rather than Roma) is false information. Largoplazo (talk) 01:13, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Akkawi didn't originate in the state of Israel. Fact. JJNito197 (talk) 22:53, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Largoplazo (talk) 23:38, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Request for comment
Should the origin change to just Acre without a mention of Israel? The dish clearly originated before the establishment of the State of Israel (1948). JJNito197 (talk) 23:22, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I just changed it (before seeing this RFC) to say "from what is now the city of Acre, Israel", so that should take care of any controversy. Largoplazo (talk) 23:38, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I still think mentioning Israel is misleading. Would not Acre alone suffice? It avoids future issues. JJNito197 (talk) 23:41, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Are there issues when we say chocolate was brought to Europe from present-day Mexico? Or that the earliest human remains were found in what is today Morocco? Placing historical events and entities in the context of current geographical naming for the benefit of readers' understanding is rather normal. Largoplazo (talk) 01:45, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The fact remains, Akkawi does not originate in Acre, Israel. It originates in Acre (Akka). My suggestion avoids potential issues arising in the future. JJNito197 (talk) 02:13, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The fact remains that the language that's there now doesn't say it originated in what was then Acre, Israel, it says it originated in what is now Acre, Israel, which is true, and which is not a problem for the same reason as the comparable facts that I mentioned. Repeating an argument after that argument has been responded to, without addressing the response, is simply reptitious. How many times will you reiterate that it wasn't Israel at the time after having had it pointed it to you why that doesn't matter? Largoplazo (talk) 03:12, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The fact remains. Akkawi Cheese did not originate in Acre, Israel, it orignated in Akka. (Acre.) JJNito197 (talk) 03:19, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Compare Lumbini, present-day Nepal, the birthplace of the Buddha. Nepalese nationalists insist the Buddh was born in Nepal, not (ancient) India, though (ancient) India includes the whole subcontinent, not just present-day India. Regards, Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  04:04, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think Joshua Jonathans edits cleared up the issue greatly. JJNito197 (talk) 11:50, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

The fact remains that if all you can do is repeat your original statement (which includes the mystifying implication that Acre, Israel is a different place from Akko) after others have responded with reasoning and observations, you've lost the debate. Largoplazo (talk) 13:59, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with Joshua Jonathans edits. Wikipedia is about collaboration. I also understand where the people in the talk page are coming from. I'm sorry if you do not. JJNito197 (talk) 14:14, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Are you saying collaboration calls for repeating your original assertion and not taking into account the response you received to it? I'll be surprised if that was the point you were trying to make in response to me, but if it wasn't your point, then I don't know what your point was. Largoplazo (talk) 01:30, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I think thats the problem here, you just dont get it. If you don't understand that this disamb link Acre, Israel is historically inaccurate and misleading in the context of a dish made prior to the Israeli state, I can't help you. You never suggested breaking up the disamb link either which was the issue in the first place contrary to you recent comment below. I came to talk (see above) and you ignored it! Who can't dialogue? JJNito197 (talk) 01:48, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Your RFC is about the question "Should the origin change to just Acre without a mention of Israel?" It doesn't mention the disambiguation link, so that's not what this discussion is about. If you want the discussion to be about that, then you'll need to initiate a discussion about that.
 * Regarding what this RFC is about, as defined by your presentation of it: It's normal and customary in text to identify the greater context of a specific location for the benefit of readers who don't know where every single location in the world is. An article that mentions Göbekli Tepe would reasonably say something to the effect of "Göbekli Tepe in present-day Turkey" if not "in Turkey" outright. Indeed, the article Göbekli Tepe begins "Göbekli Tepe ... is a Neolithic archaeological site near the city of Şanlıurfa in Southeastern Anatolia, Turkey." Written without fretting that there was no such thing as Turkey, nor even any peoples identifiable as Turkic, 10,000 or 11,000 years ago, this is helpful to the reader. Also at Klaus Schmidt (archaeologist): "In 1995, he became the leader of the excavations at Gürcütepe and Göbekli Tepe in Southeast Turkey."
 * If you're going to insist that it's wrong to provide clarity for readers, or if you don't recognize things are going to be a lot clearer for readers if you locate places in terms of larger present-day places that they're more likely to know, or if you're going to hold that is some profound undercurrent to this question that is specific to Acre that is much more complex than I'm making it out to be here, then I can't help you. But don't just ignore the points that I'm making and tell me "you don't get it" because I disagree with you and have told you why. Largoplazo (talk) 03:08, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Finally, just for kicks, I'll address the link: The link is also fine because the article Acre, Israel leads to is not just about Acre since 1948 but covers the history of Acre since the Early Bronze Age. So linking to that article is not misleading. Largoplazo (talk) 04:03, 22 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I believe the current phrasing "named after the city of Akka (Acre, present-day Israel)" is a good blend of concerns raised by both etymology and geography. - Here Under The Oaks (talk) 18:46, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Under current legal definitions and maps as stipulated by the UN, Acre/Akko is a city in Israel, and there should be no contention in saying such; However, it would be a misnomer to say that Akkawi originates in Israel, since the State of Israel didn't exist as a concept until the 19th century; A comparative article would be the one on Naengmyeon, a delicacy originating in Pyongyang, a city that is now in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea; However, since North Korea didn't exist during the Joseon Dynasty, it merely says 'Northern Korea' or merely just 'Korea'.

Ergo, I would conclude by saying it is incorrect to say Akkawi originated in Israel, but you can say 'the city now encompassed by the modern state of Israel' or 'now lying within the territory of the modern state of Israel'.

PeaceThruPramana26 (talk) 00:20, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Or, more simply, as I offered above, "Acre [or Akko; that's really a different debate from the one about where we say Acre/Akko is] in present-day Israel".

Jibneh - transliteration
At the beginning of the article says "jubna", I disagree with the use of "u" and the final "a" (it is close but not an a). Short vocal at the begging should be an "i" and the ending, because the word is feminine ends with taa'marbuutah could be transliterate as "eh" Alemohuanna (talk) 19:35, 8 January 2023 (UTC)