Talk:Al-Aqsa Mosque (disambiguation)

Temporary addition of new piped redirects in order to assess outbound traffic from this disambiguation page
The following new piped redirects have been added to this article in order to assess outbound traffic from this disambiguation page:
 * Temple Mount
 * Masjid al-Aqṣā
 * Qibli Mosque

Onceinawhile (talk) 20:58, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Note: it is important that the above pipes remain new, clean, redirect pages, as it allows us to be confident that these redirect pages are not getting views via any other route. This can be monitored at:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Al-Aqsa_Mosque_(Temple_Mount)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Al-Aqsa_Mosque_(Al-Isra)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Al-Aqsa_Mosque_(Qibli_Mosque)

Onceinawhile (talk) 23:56, 31 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Not knowing they were being used in this way, I may have clicked a number of times on each of them. I also almost (but not quite) re-targeted Al-Aqsa Mosque (Al-Isra) to this disambiguation page, which should become its target when this experiment is over: the al-Isra (which, btw, should be al-Isra' per WP:MOSAR) parenthetical is far too obscure to be an efficient disambiguator (an alternative is to delete).For what it's worth, I think this experiment is a bad idea. Internal data like this is of a very limited value in the first place (the great, great majority of readers come in through external search engines and never even see the DAB page), but to make it useful it should be carried through for a long period (perhaps a year or so), and I just don't believe the results of the experiment are worth keeping the Qibli Mosque article on a disastrously uncommon name for such a long time. ☿ Apaugasma  ( talk  ☉) 00:47, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * as it stands, we are getting a huge amount of traffic to this DAB page (400 views per day; it tops the google results for the topic) so the data really is high quality.
 * I'm not sure we need anywhere near as long as a year, just a few more weeks, given the volume of readership.
 * In the meantime, we could rename the Qibli article to something which people feel less strongly about, without taking over the base Al Aqsa Mosque name. Anyway, based on the data so far, there really is no justification for that base name to point to the Qibli article, as we haven't even had a single day where it has been the top choice of our readers. Onceinawhile (talk) 00:55, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Qibli Mosque. Onceinawhile (talk) 09:12, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 30 May 2022
Discussion moved to Talk:Qibli Mosque. Vpab15 (talk) 10:02, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

DRAFT: proposed versions (queue)
al-Aqsa Mosque may refer to:

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Onceinawhile (talk • contribs) 09:15, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The al-Aqsa Mosque complex, known in Arabic as (المسجد الأقصى) or  (الحرم الشريف), a religious site in Jerusalem located on the Temple Mount
 * The al-Aqsa Mosque building, also known as (الجامع الأقصى) or the Qibli Mosque, a congregational mosque and the largest building in the al-Aqsa Mosque complex
 * , lit. 'The Furthest Mosque', a place mentioned in the 17th chapter of the Quran,, and for which the Jerusalem site is named
 * I added the word "building" after "The al-Aqsa Mosque", which I think helps disambiguate better, without the diminutive connotations of "prayer hall" as appears in the current version. ☿ Apaugasma  ( talk  ☉) 12:37, 1 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Why the indentation? It gives primacy to the complex over the building, which skews the result. To test if people get to this dab page while looking for the building called Al-Aqsa Mosque, it is necessary to give them a link which explicitly says what they are looking for. Also the Arabic doesn't belong on a dab page, this is the English wiki. Plus, people get to a dab page because of its title, not because of alternate unusual names for the topics it links to. Plus, to help judge the large number of visitors whose only knowledge is "al-Aqsa mosque on the Temple Mount", the Temple Mount has to be mentioned both times and it has to be clarified which one is an extended site and which one is a building. The phrase "religious site in Jerusalem located on the Temple Mount" skews the results as it applies correctly to both concepts but is only used for one of them. (Incidentally, I can't find where Apaugasma proposed this exact wording.) Zerotalk 12:47, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Apaugasma's proposal was made with this edit. Onceinawhile (talk) 13:45, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

The proposal below is to improve the traffic analysis, not as the ideal dab page. In general I don't think that common usage can be gauged this way at all, and COMMONNAME says nothing about the preferences of visitors. Visitors come because they don't know something, while we use reliable sources because they do know something. So relying on visitors' preferences is fundamentally broken. Nevertheless, I'd be extremely surprised if the majority of people "out there" who have heard of "Al-Aqsa Mosque" think it is anything other than a mosque building.

al-Aqsa Mosque may refer to:
 * The al-Aqsa Mosque complex, an extended religious site in Jerusalem located on the Temple Mount.
 * The al-Aqsa Mosque religious building, located in the al-Asqa mosque complex at the southern end of the Temple Mount.

Zerotalk 12:47, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * we are not trying to assess WP:COMMONNAME. We are trying only to assess WP:PTOPIC, which states A topic is primary for a term with respect to usage if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term.. Onceinawhile (talk) 13:47, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I like this to an extent because it's clearer than what I wrote here. However, it's only acceptable if it complies with MOS:DAB, which means that it should contain only one link per entry, and that this link should display the same words as the title of the page it actually links to. In the present situation therefore we need it to contain one link to Temple Mount and one link to Qibli Mosque (piped to redirects pointing to these pages, but displaying these exact names in blue letters). ☿ Apaugasma  ( talk  ☉) 13:33, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Right, I'm not trying to comply with DAB yet. I'm only trying to find a formulation which will mean something with regard to traffic statistics. That means presenting both options as equally and clearly as possible. A proper dab page that conforms with DAB can be prepared when the article titles are settled. Zerotalk 14:13, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * If Apaugasma is happy, we can put Zero's version on tomorrow. I am hoping by the end of today I will have dealt with the final lot of direct links, so we can then remove the tag from the top of the page, making it even cleaner. Onceinawhile (talk) 14:27, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I appreciate editors trying to work this out and I just dropped in to see what was going on, and for what it's worth I support something like Zero's wording as well (with whatever other adjustments needed). If you do want to assess primary topic this way, the topics need to be identified clearly but very plainly, and that wording I think goes a step further in that direction. We should assume the average reader knows nothing about the kind of nuances that have been discussed behind-the-scenes on talk pages and they may get confused if the wording isn't immediately straightforward; in which case, given that the Temple Mount is an even larger and more familiar topic than the mosque building for many readers (and is presented first), they could end up going there by default rather than by intention. Thanks for ongoing work, R Prazeres (talk) 17:19, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Piped links
The DAB currently contains piped links that do not seem to meet any of the exceptions listed at MOS:DABPIPING. Note that MOS:DABPIPE reads in part Apart from the exceptions listed below, piping and redirects should generally not be used on disambiguation pages.

and, I note some discussion acknowledging that the DAB might not conform to the MOS, and suggesting that this doesn't matter. Respectfully, I do not agree. Andrewa (talk) 11:32, 4 August 2022 (UTC)


 * @Andrewa: It's a temporary measure to allow a traffic assessment to be performed. The whole setup of the dab page is currently somewhat unorthodox. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:39, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a laboratory.PrisonerB (talk) 11:46, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Piping is a visually harmless, and there is functionally no difference than with no piping present. Let's not get overexcited. It's not exactly mad science. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:51, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * That is not what the MOS says at all. Andrewa (talk) 12:11, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree - as soon as the traffic assessment is done, this will be moved into full conformity with MOS. Onceinawhile (talk) 12:23, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a laboratory states that "research projects that are disruptive to the community or which negatively affect articles—even temporarily—are not allowed and can result in loss of editing privileges". This dubious experiment should stop, the mosque page moved back, and this page moved into full conformity with MOS.PrisonerB (talk) 12:36, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, so what you would need to demonstrate there is A) that this is disruptive, and B) that it negatively affects anything. Show and tell. Iskandar323 (talk) 12:45, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * MOS says it is a: standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply (my bolding). #WP:NOTBURO Iskandar323 (talk) 12:43, 4 August 2022 (UTC)