Talk:Al-Mu'tamid ibn Abbad

Bisexuality
This statement "Al-Mu'tamid was bisexual. He was lover and patron to the Andalusi Arabic poet Ibn Ammar..." is sourced to a book called "Homosexuality and civilization". It is not a known undisputed fact but a minority view or a theory which should either be deleted or identified as such to the reader; e.g. by adding the name of the author who holds this view per WP:UNDUE. --Tachfin (talk) 10:31, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Please demonstrate your case with some sources before changing the one cited. If there are alternatives then present the evidence. Contaldo80 (talk) 13:13, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * For example - here is another reference to a homosexual lover affair: http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta2/tft/article.php?issue=20110826&page=16
 * Contaldo80 (talk) 13:17, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The author is a specialist of "gay studies", not a historian or a scholar of this period/area, and holds a minority view. In the absence of other independent scholarly sources, I'm inclined not to believe him. The same goes for another writer having another cause.
 * Who are "Friday times" and who is Salma Mahmud? a historian?...no, thank you.
 * Frankly, how is it bothering you that I attribute a claim to its author? If there were an agreement on this (i.e. many scholarly sources that say the same thing) I wouldn't. Until you prove otherwise, this remains a theory which should be attributed to its proponent per WP:UNDUE. It's up to you to demonstrate that what "Louis Crompton" wrote is credible. You make a claim, you prove it, it's not the other way around. I cannot possibly find a source for the lack of something. Now, that being said, I'm not suggesting to delete this bit only to attribute it to its author. --Tachfin (talk) 14:11, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * You speak with such authority on an issue that I suspect you know very little about. I've added another 4 sources now. I can add another 20 if you want me to. Incidentally, Crompton is not a "specialist in gay studies" but rather Emeritus Professor of Literature at the University of Kentucky. But even if was a specialist in gay studies, why do you think he should have been dismissed as an untrustworthy source. Are such specialists inevitably biased?! Contaldo80 (talk) 10:28, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks for adding more refs. I'll investigate the issue and give feedback. What I know is that all of the primary/secondary sources on Al-Mu'tamid, that I have read, make no mention of such a thing. I could have missed some, but it's also possible that it's only a theory with conflictual views on it.
 * P.S: I've consulted Crompton's book on gbooks, but I don't have access to his footnotes. If you have the paper copy of the book can you please point me to the refs he used for Al-Mu'tamid's account. Thanks--Tachfin (talk) 11:20, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

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