Talk:Al-Shafi'i

Untitled
Thankfully, I doubt Iman Shafi is much of a controversial figure. Nevertheless, the tone of this article must be changed and apocryphal history must be indicated as such. Uly 17:33, 12 August 2005 (UTC)


 * What do you mean by tone and apocryphal history? Could you be more specific? Yodakii 07:42, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

The Arabic version of the name is: امام شافعي (I just don't know how to insert it without messing up the surrounding text.)Yodakii

It doesnt look good to read an article about a great imam and then seeing "the neutrality of this article is disputed".


 * There doesn't seem to be a discussion about NPOV, just tone. Yodakii 11:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Move + Britannica
Shafi'i is what is used for the madhhab. Britannica has Abu 'Abd Allah ash-Shafi'i which would be a long, but I think quite acceptable move. For those with access to Britannica see this. gren グレン 08:14, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I support renaming the article. "Imam" is not a part of his name, and "Shafi'i" is the correct transliteration according to the Wikipedia standard. Yodakii 10:17, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed after the result of a move request. Dragons flight 05:25, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Drastic Action
I just trashed the whole mess and re-wrote it using the information in the Majid Khadduri's translation of al-Risala Kleinecke 20:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe the entry should be changed back to al-Shafi'i. But I didn't do that. And I unassimilated at the "al". Kleinecke 20:38, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Too drastic. I think there was some content in the old version that you deleted which might have been informative. Perhaps you should review your changes and do a merge? --Nkv 05:59, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

sayings section
The quote "He who seeks pearls immerses in the sea" is a vers from a poem that is attributed to Al-Mutanabbi in the book "Instruction of the Student" (Ta'lim al-Muta'alim) by al-Zarnuji. But in fact this poem is not found on www.almotanabbi.com which contains all the works of Al-Mutanabbi. Rather the poem can be found the diwan of ash-Shafi`i

Ash-Shafi`i lived much earlier than Al-Mutanabbi, and the qoute must thus be attributed to him. Therefor I have deleted this quote from the article about Al-Mutanabbi and mooved it here — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.155.168.1 (talk) 20:34, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100610100221/http://www.insct.syr.edu/Projects/islam-ihl/research/Fadel%2C%20Mohammad.2008.Theo%20and%20Ethical%20Roots%20of%20Public%20Reason%20in%20Islamic%20Law.pdf to http://www.insct.syr.edu/Projects/islam-ihl/research/Fadel%2C%20Mohammad.2008.Theo%20and%20Ethical%20Roots%20of%20Public%20Reason%20in%20Islamic%20Law.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120420061442/http://www.shafiifiqh.com/the-biography-of-imam-ash-shafii/ to http://www.shafiifiqh.com/the-biography-of-imam-ash-shafii/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131215102706/http://archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.jsp?site_id=3417 to http://archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.jsp?site_id=3417
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120420061442/http://www.shafiifiqh.com/the-biography-of-imam-ash-shafii/ to http://www.shafiifiqh.com/the-biography-of-imam-ash-shafii/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080507170603/http://www.al-inaam.com/library/shaafiee.htm to http://www.al-inaam.com/library/shaafiee.htm
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Governor
This would need citation to a WP:RS as the passage has multiple problems: 1) it's spelled Najran; 2) it's in Arabia, not Palestine; 3) none of the academic sources I'm aware of report his governorship as a fact; for example EI2 says: "It appears certain that it was shortly after having completed his education that al-Shafi'i was summoned to perform some official function at Nadjran (in the north of Yemen)", while Kecia Ali writes "It is probable that Shafi'i, now in his early thirties, served in Najran as deputy to the governor appointed by Harun al Rashid". 4) even if this has been proven in some newer sources, we would need evidence that those sources treat this appointment as notable enough to be mentioned in the opening sentence. Eperoton (talk) 02:52, 16 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I double checked again the link and could not find in Fadel's reference, that Al-Shafi'i was once a governor of Najar. Are there any other references that mention this? If not, then it's an important claim that cannot be proven and should be removed. Naval Scene (talk) 10:20, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi. I found out two references that unambiguously mentioned Al-Shafi'i's appointment as a judge in Najran (not Najar). So I'll adjust the paragraph accordingly. Thanks, Naval Scene (talk) 06:19, 28 October 2023 (UTC)


 * In the section titled "Yemeni Fitnah," two sources are referenced regarding Al-Shafi'i's position in Najran. Brown briefly mentions Al-Shafi'i as an Abbasid governor (on page 35). However, Haddad (on page 190) states clearly that Al-Shafi'i served as an aide to the governor and held a judgeship position. Therefore, unless there are objections, I intend to update Al-Shafi'i's role in that section to a judge, based on Day, Islam, Zatzman, Islam, and Haddad , and remove Brown as a reference. Thanks, Naval Scene (talk) 17:25, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Bilad al Sham vs Palestine
I changed the region of his birth from Bilad al Sham to Palestine (region) and Jund Filastin (which Gaza was part of) since "bilad al sham" is sometimes used for the north Levant only in certain cases. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazyketchupguy (talk • contribs) 18:07, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Dishonesty on the Imam’s position of Kalam.
There are sources from Shafi’i scholars that claim that Kalam at the time of the Imam was different from the ones related to Ahlus Sunnah (Sh. Saeed Fodeh made this claim). It’s important to create a distinction between the two if real and until then I believe the hyperlink to (Sunni) Kalam should be removed and a proper elaboration be added. 2001:1970:5163:1200:0:0:0:D48B (talk) 19:17, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

"Palestinian Arab" ?
First to clarify good intentions ; I am not going to shit on Palestinians and their heritage : leave that historical rejectionism and mentality that resembles genocide preparators to Israeli-Jews and their sympathists.

Now, as for my comment. Sure, he born within areas defined as Palestine according to boundaries mentioned by Herodotus, the Byzantines , and the British  , as well as in an area belonging to an administrative unit called "District of Palestine" (Jund Filastin). Describing him as "Palestinian" in the regional-background sense is,  historically accurate. It's also much more comfortable and historically sound to assume might have described himself as such at some different points of his life, compared to figures like Jesus who probably never heard of "Palestine". This is especially said seeing near contemporaries, such Al-Maqdisi in 10th century described himself as such in the anecdote he mentioned in his geographical work , as well as other figures such as Raja ibn Haywa being described as "Palestinian" in their lifetimes.

. Still, I find it gratuitous to use the aforementioned descriptor. The Palestinian component in Al-Shafi's life and contributions wasn't so prominent as to warrant describing him that way, seeing nationalism and national identities only come around the 17th century ; He most likely , if not definitely , was not "Palestinian" in the Palestinian-Arab national sense that emerge during the Mandate.

I personally don't find the fact that he was a regional Palestinian to be this important as to what he was as historical figure (an Islamic Jurist and Theologian ), as well as his biography  (only 2 years of his life of 54 years were in Palestine ; that's literally like  99% of his life , including his childhood , was outside of the country of his birth  ). It's just best to delete this line, for Historicity's sake .

Religion and hamula/ashira (clan/tribe) was the prominent identity at the time of the Islamic caliphate. "Palestinian" would have most likely been the last word al-shafi would have used to describe himself.

If it's so crucial to stress the Palestinian component of his life : It's best to say that he was "Palestinian-Born" in the biography section , otherwise : it's best to delete the descriptor "Palestinian".

Either that, or editors would have to go around Wikipedia , and put descriptors such as "Palestinian [insert ethnicity]" in the Lead of figures like Jesus.

I hope the inquiry is addressed without controversy . I could have just deleted this line myself, but I wanted to start a discussion on the talk page here so current and future editors be weary of some propogandists projecting a modern national identity that's traceable to the late 19th century /1920s (according to Israeli-scholar yeshoua porat )at the earliest , into historical figures. 94.49.24.203 (talk) 14:52, 30 March 2023 (UTC)