Talk:Alawite State

Alawite majority in the state of Aleppo
There's no way the Alawites were a majority in the state of Aleppo (section 3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawite_State#Population). Surely the author meant the Alawite state instead of the state of Aleppo. --equitor (talk) 14:57, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

The name of the Alawite state
Hello, I changed the name earlier from "Alawite State" to "State of Alawites." AnonMoos told me the following:


 * "On English Wikipedia, entities should be known in the way they're most commonly-referred to in English-language usage, not as what somebody might think is a bettter translation from a foreign-language term. In any case, it would have been better to discuss the matter at Talk:Alawite State‎... AnonMoos (talk) 08:07, 11 March 2008 (UTC)"

However, I did not change the name only because of what you thought AnonMoos. I did it also to maintain the uniformity between the different articles. Look at this article: Postage stamps of Alaouites

1. the stamps say "Alawites" not "Alawite" in both Arabic and French. 2. The article itself uses "Alaouites" not "Alaouite". 3. Finally, I don't agree with what you say. Names of states should be translated literally. Can somebody say "The United American States" instead of "The United States of America"?

I only changed the main title. I don't say that "Alawite state" can't be used (although in this case the word "state" shouldn't be capitalized). HD1986 (talk) 16:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * First off, it's a fact of the English language that in English noun-noun compounds, the first noun is usually not given plural morphology (with a few minor exceptions which don't apply here). So in "Alawite State", the word "Alawite" smply cannot have a plural "s" ending added to it, according to the rules of English grammar.  The whole singular-plural opposition is in fact generally neutralized for non-final nouns in a noun-noun compound, so it's pointless to complain that "Alawite" is a mistranslation because it doesn't have an "-s" on the end.  The word here properly follows the rules of English grammar, not the rules of French grammar or the rules of Arabic grammar.


 * Second, the phrase "State of Alawites" in that particular form is not really very good English, and currently gets a total of five (5) Google hits, while "Alawite State" currently gets 1,830 Google hits . So it seems clear that "Alwaite State" is more often used in an English-language context... AnonMoos (talk) 21:08, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

You have misunderstood and reversed the situation, in French you can't say "Alawites State" but you can say that only in English. The French "Alaouites" is a shortening of "Etat des Alouites" and not of "Etat Alaouites" which is absolutely false in French.

This is not about grammar, this is about how should we write the name of the country in the title. The French and Arabic official name is "State of Alawites." It is easier in both French and Arabic too to say "Alawite State" (Etat Alaouiote, دولة علوية), and it is more commonly used in French and Arabic too, but this is not the official name. If the second one gets more hits in English then it certainly gets more in French and Arabic. I think the redirect solves this issue.

Again, can we say e.g. "the Israeli State" instead of "the State of Israel"?

I would like the other members to express their opinions on this issue.HD1986 (talk) 13:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the only way to solve it is to find out what it was actually called in English back when it existed. In old newspapers perhaps? FunkMonk (talk) 14:18, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Please check this English language page: http://www.fotw.us/flags/sy-alw20.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by HD1986 (talk • contribs) 15:56, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems like there are no standards (references to anything form "Alawite territory" to "Alawite country" can be found), but that "Alawite State" is used most of the time... FunkMonk (talk) 16:00, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me that they have no problem in using "State of Alawites" when they need the official name (like in the title of the page!!)HD1986 (talk) 16:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, wouldn't that be like calling the Lebanon article "The Lebanese Republic"? FunkMonk (talk) 16:08, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

OK. It is no big deal anyway. HD1986 (talk) 16:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

The title of this article will be in the English language, so English grammar is very relevant. A state for the Kurds could be called a "Kurd State" or a "Kurdish State", but not normally a "State of Kurds"... AnonMoos (talk) 12:54, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

the map
for the map, please see File:Alawite distribution explained.png and http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Alawite_distribution_explained.png Moester101 (talk) 23:09, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * To Funkmonk: What do you mean "original research"? I clearly posted all my sources on the link on the right. Apparently you only bothered to look at the first link. And besides, your image is extremely inaccurate, for example it shows Afrin district (kurdish) and Qusair district (sunni) as being alawite, not to mention a lot of other places!! lol are you kidding me bro? If you don't like my image, then at least don't show any images at all b/c yours is misleading to make it look like all northwestern Syria is somehow Alawi, and its not! Moester101 (talk) 23:29, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, you can't use article text and your own musings as a source for a map, you should use published maps. FunkMonk (talk) 13:19, 15 January 2013 (UTC)


 * That map is incorrect now, I have fixed the old one. FunkMonk (talk) 15:01, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Request from a GOCE editor
Hello All, I am Wikishagnik, a member of GOCE. While trying to edit this article to manage its tone and language, I came across the following problems

For these issues, I would like to understand if this article is copied from some other source and is supposed to match the format of the source? If so, please understand that I will be restructuring this article to meet WP:MOS and the changes I make will dramaticaly alter its structure and tone to make it comply with WP:NPOV. Would there be any objection to that? Please go through the appropriate policy before responding. Thanks and regards -Wikishagnik (talk) 04:28, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The article uses a language that switches between formal and informal as one goes through it. This breaks the flow of reading.
 * The article is not structured according to WP:MOS